Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Go ahead and start the thread, but I can tell you off the bat that the Empire pwns Revan.
No, I think Revan would "pwn" the Empire, so long as he was introduced quietly into the galaxy. After Manipulating and/or Mind Tricking a crapload of the right people he could eventually take out palps. Or, he could just find out where palps lives and take it from there.
You are all forgetting: Revan has Malak, an army of Star Forge war droids, Great Sith War veterans, Mandalorian Wars veterans, hundreds of Leviathan ships (they are so badly armed because they have huge gravity well projectors), many former Republic war equipment, hundreds of thousands of Sith Starfighters, the Star Forge, and probably Sith war beasts and many other things that the Sith before Revan left behind or Revan happened to steal from the Republic.
In a space battle, the Sith Fighters would swarm the Rebel's starfleet and escort in boarding craft that would then unleash hell inside the Rebel's ships. In KOTOR, we saw how effective a Sith boarding can be. In ANH, we saw how hard it is for the Rebel Marines to defend their ships from 501st Stormtroopers, imagine veteran Sith Troopers and Dark Jedi. The Rebels would lose their positions in chaos and confusion and withdraw.
In a ground battle, if the Rebels have their tanks, turrets, and other vehicles, assassination of the Rebel Field Officers and a sudden push led by Malak might secure some sort of victory. In most tactical situations, the Rebel Alliance's SpecForces can't match up to the Sith, a lot of them whom fought Mandalorians in the war before and survived Dxun and/or Malachor V.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The Rebels had several thousand ships. Revan has no advantage in numbers. A single Mon Cal(MC80 or above) could take two of the Leviathan, maybe six if it was one of the heavier ones(aka. MC80A and up).The Rebels also have a huge advantage in the amount of able bodied soliders they have. Remember that the Alliance spans thousands of worlds.
The Rebels also have far greater starfighters. Revan's don't even have proton torpedos or shields, making them easy prey for Rebel ships.
Added with Ackbar's uber tactical skill(which is on the same level as Revan's) and the Alliance defeats him.
TJ, super-conducting armor is far weaker than shields. There is a reason they switched to shields over it.
Also remember that pre-Empire ships had lesser fire rates on their turbolasers. It was Imperial designers that came up with a high speed turbolaser with the same(or on larger ships) greater firepower to former turbolasers. The Rebels copied Imperial technology in their ships, giving the Rebels an advantage 3-1 over any of Revan's ship of equal size, even greater when you count things like the Leviathan being 1/6th the size of Home One(the Rebel flagship).
In result, Revan's Empire is pwned.
Originally posted by Shadow x 20
I don't think the Alliance would leave their scientists in the open for Revan to kidnap
REVAN could POSSIBLY manipulate them from afar, but thats just speculation. Or, he could just stowaway in one of their ships and take out the rebel leadership, by either killing them outright, manipulating the leader with the weakest mind and taking it from there.
There are just so many possiblities, its not even funny.
Revan is not stupid he wouldnt fight an OBVIOUSLY useless battle.
The Rebels dont know the location of the starforge, so that would give revan and his assassins,spies some time to seriously disrupt the rebel caste.
Originally posted by Brotz
You are all forgetting: Revan has Malak, an army of Star Forge war droids, Great Sith War veterans, Mandalorian Wars veterans, hundreds of Leviathan ships (they are so badly armed because they have huge gravity well projectors), many former Republic war equipment, hundreds of thousands of Sith Starfighters, the Star Forge, and probably Sith war beasts and many other things that the Sith before Revan left behind or Revan happened to steal from the Republic.
The point is - all that won't help him. I will explain that with the points following:
In a space battle, the Sith Fighters would swarm the Rebel's starfleet and escort in boarding craft that would then unleash hell inside the Rebel's ships. In KOTOR, we saw how effective a Sith boarding can be. In ANH, we saw how hard it is for the Rebel Marines to defend their ships from 501st Stormtroopers, imagine veteran Sith Troopers and Dark Jedi. The Rebels would lose their positions in chaos and confusion and withdraw.
The point is that Revan has no chance to get some boarding vehicles near the Republic ships. They will get pwned badly because the Rebels have by far the greater firepower. They would simply blow anything away that comes close to them (I doubt that something would get close to them). The Sith have simply no chance to work against an enemy that has not only the better technology and more firepower but is also outnumbering them.
And the have some nice pilots in their fleet (Rogue Squadron) and quite skilled people from the ranks of the Admirals (Ackbar) to those of the Commanders (Wedge Antilles).
In a ground battle, if the Rebels have their tanks, turrets, and other vehicles, assassination of the Rebel Field Officers and a sudden push led by Malak might secure some sort of victory. In most tactical situations, the Rebel Alliance's SpecForces can't match up to the Sith, a lot of them whom fought Mandalorians in the war before and survived Dxun and/or Malachor V.
And again: You forget to think about the advanced technology. The more important planets of the rebels have shield generators, anti-ship turbolaser batteries and ion-canons (effectively able to take out far more powerful ships than those Revan has - as seen on Hoth in ESB). They have fighter support for their bases and most likely fleets who guard them in orbit. What do you think that Revan can do against that ? In order to take one of the more important planet he first has to win a space battle which is almost impossible for him, get through the planetary defences (which is also nearly impossible) and then win a ground battle again facing advanced technology and firepower and being highly outnumbered. And he again would have skilled military commanders against him (Dodonna, Rieekan, Derlin)
And the Rebels have access to a capable intelligence network (Bothan spies) and have skilled mercenaries under their command (Kyle Katarn - who was able to take on entire Imperial Bases on his own even in times when he didn't use the force, Dash Rendar etc.) and others that are quite capable when it comes to covert operations (Luke, Han, Chewie, Lando).
Ah, vell...
Since we don't know much about Revan's GROUND forces, I mean like tanks and artillery, not infantry, and since we do know that "maximum of right before caturing Coruscant Rebels," have very decent ground forces, I'd say the Rebels win. (ruling out the unfair advantage of orbital bombardment)
Space-wise, and judging by everyone's portrayel of the Rebels superior firepower, I'd say Rebels win.
Throw the SF in the fray and I'd say RSE would last a wee bit longer, but again...since the SF cannot create lifeforms to pilot their vessels, no matter how many they churn out, they would eventually be forced to surrender or die if the Rebels blockade the SF.
(sigh) Bring the "SF shield" into the mix, I'd still say you should not put it past the Rebels to be unable to remove it.
How the hell do the rebels outnumber Revan his Empire? Seriously his fleet is huge. and the entire rebel fleet went towards the Death Star, it didn't look that big to me.
anyways Revan would win, why? Because of the star forge, there is no way the rebels could take that thing. Once Revan realises he can't win in space he would get those people to go to him, to go to the Star Forge. Where they would all crash because of the shields of the Star Forge.
The Rebel Alliance can not destroy Revan his headquarters and will probably die trying to go there.
Originally posted by Fishy
How the hell do the rebels outnumber Revan his Empire? Seriously his fleet is huge. and the entire rebel fleet went towards the Death Star, it didn't look that big to me.anyways Revan would win, why? Because of the star forge, there is no way the rebels could take that thing. Once Revan realises he can't win in space he would get those people to go to him, to go to the Star Forge. Where they would all crash because of the shields of the Star Forge.
The Rebel Alliance can not destroy Revan his headquarters and will probably die trying to go there.
Thats what I was thinking as well. And when they end up crashing on Rakata, the Natives weaken them then Revan sends a few Dark Jedi, to capture any scientist and high ranking soldiers.
Originally posted by Shadow x 20
And Luke will pwn any of them. Plus Rebel spies could learn the location of the Star Forge like they did the plans of the first Death Star.
Nah, I dont think the Luke in this senario would be able to beat Malak or a sufficient number of Dark Jedi MASTERS if he encountered them. Actually, Revan would want Luke captured alive, then he would put him into the Star Forge like those other Jedi, and drain him.
Originally posted by Fishy
How the hell do the rebels outnumber Revan his Empire? Seriously his fleet is huge. and the entire rebel fleet went towards the Death Star, it didn't look that big to me.
They didn't have all of their ships at Endor. The bulk of their fleet was, but it was still only around half as there are many ship models that they had at that time that were not present at the battle( Blockade Runners, for example).
Also note that this isn't ROTJ Rebels(at least I don't think it is). It is a little before when they take Coruscant, because that is when the Alliance is at it's peak. The Rebel Alliance grew extremely fast after the destruction of the second Death Star. They were easily ten times bigger by the time they took Coruscant, probably more than that.
Originally posted by Fishy
anyways Revan would win, why? Because of the star forge, there is no way the rebels could take that thing. Once Revan realises he can't win in space he would get those people to go to him, to go to the Star Forge. Where they would all crash because of the shields of the Star Forge.
Not many people would crash, nor would Revan get much technology from it.
The shield wouldn't be very hard to take out. They could just send in a commando team and knock out the shield.
Originally posted by Fishy
The Rebel Alliance can not destroy Revan his headquarters and will probably die trying to go there.
No. I hope you don't think that the Alliance is that dumb. A few commando teams would take the sheild out. After that point Revan is finished.
Few things wrong with that theory
1.) How the hell would the alliance know the shield generator is there?
2.) Even if they would somehow find out then they would still have to land on the planet near that area, possible perhaps but still they would probably be seen.
3.) They would need to somehow convince the Rakatan to do the ritual for them that allows them acces. Problem is no translation droid can understand the Rakatan and unless you have the force you can't learn it either. And guess what, those guys don't have the force. Except for Luke but what thats just one.
4.) Lets say they do learn the Rakatan ritual and they do get the Rakatan to preform it, then they would need the force to enter the temple. Pretty much destroying any team you build, with the exception of Luke and possibly Leia maybe Katarn if you want.
5.) Luke and Leia alone would never ever be able to fight their way through the dozens of Dark Jedi Masters and even some of Revan his most trusted followers and get to the top of the building.
6.) To open the door you would need an account of some sort on the computer in the basement the computer however refuses to give out that account to just anybody, Revan however was there before and the Computer recognizes that so he re-installed Revan his account.
So honestly its freaking impossible that anybody could go there and do all that shit. I also doubt that they could just blow the thing up, if you look at the Rakatan they probably have some good defense methods and they couldn't do it from space because there ships won't work.
And there is absolutely nothing to suggest that even a single rebel alliance ship would manage to keep on flying after they reach that shield.