)For two post ago.)
That doesn't make any sense. What does Revan have to do with this> This is a hundred commando's with high powered explosivies.
And no, if Revan could have(which he probably could have), he wouldn't have. If darkside, he would have wanted to turn it off in a way so that he could turn it back on once he got the SF back from Malak, and if he was lightside he could have just wanted to save time(he was trying to shut it off before the Rebel Fleet got there).
Please, like I've said so many times in the past, use some reason and logic before making a post. I'm willing to bet you are more intelligent than you are acting.
Originally posted by fisto/katarnrul
The whole point of the star forge is to create ships faster then shipyards and it can way faster. The rebels have no shipyards these are the rebels before endor the empire controlled the shiopyards
No. The point of the SF was to build ships. Which it did faster than the Republic Fleet, but would not be faster than the Rebel Fleet.
No, I just might take back what I said in my last post, perhaps you really are stupid. Please look at some sources before making blind assumptions.
The Rebels have:
Mon Calamari Shipyards
Bilbrigi Shipyards
Sluis Van Shipyards
Eriadu Shipyars
Tallaan Shipyards
Purchased ships from Corellia
ect.
Originally posted by fisto/katarnrul
And theirs like a 100 dark jedi tn the temple how would the commandoes get through.And how do you know they survived the crash landing.
Alright, I take it back, you're stupid.
Read my post,
"Also, seeing as how all ten people survived the crash in the Ebon Hawk and the Rebel ships have superior crash safety equipment, it is unreasonable to state that more than one or two, if any at all, of the commandos would die during the crash even out of a team of a hundred or so men."
Also note that there are not 100 Sith in the Temple. There are maybe 20. Several will be killed by the explosion when they are entering the Temple and the rest will be killed when other weapons(such as thermo-detonators, grenades) are tossed into rooms that the Sith are in. Also, no Sith can block 100 blaster bolts at the same time. Even Mace knew he couldn't take 14 men at the same time.
Originally posted by fisto/katarnrul
DO you even read what your writing. the SF makes ships a lot faster then the rebels.
Prove up or shut up.
Originally posted by fisto/katarnrul
And the commandoes arent expecting a sheild that will force them to crash so they wouldnt have any safety equitment and when Revan finds out theirs rebels on the planet he'll just send way more than a 100 troopers
So the people on the Ebon Hawk expected to crash and just sat there and didn't try to do anything about it?
Also, Revan won't know about the commando's until after it's to late. The Rebels will just come into the system on the far-side of the planet from the SF.
They would use special agents, seeing as that has been their tactic most of the time in the past.
Okay, so you are suggesting that a so called superior and more powerful rebel fleet is going to attack the last parts of the Sith Empire, their greatest stronghold thats going to be filled with a lot of Dark Jedi with a few special units? What kind of stupid thing would that be, they would of course assume the special units would reach the Star Forge, but if they would, they could never ever, ever get towards the centre of the Star Forge and destroy it. Never. So that would just be a waste of lives and I think the rebel alliance is smart enough to realise it.
The chances of them sending in special units are very small, and if they would they would probably serve only as spies. Yeah sure they might have done so differently in the post ROTJ books, but this is a different time and it calls for different measures and tactics. Special forces are of no use when fighting Sith Lords.
No, they wouldn't. Why would non-force users die on the planet? Page's Commando team would easily fight off any Mandalorian and Rakata scouts. If it's the Falcon, can you say anti-personal repeater blaster? Any landing team that the Alliance would chose to send would be well able to defend itself while on the planet.
Okay, so lets say Commando's are going to be send, which is not the case, then they would face Rakatan warriors, Mandelorians, Dark Jedi and Rancors. If the Falcon would land in the middle of the temple courtyard it would be destroyed by the Rancors who are present in the area. If it wouldn't land there then its guns would be of no use. If the ship would carry hundreds of commando's that could form a powerful defense then they would have been noticed by a lot of things and the Sith would have probably send some things to shoot htem down. A small ship might go unnoticed when you aren't really looking for it. But a ship that carries a lot of people is going to be noticed and Revan isn't stupid enough to just assume they have died in the crash.
Have you read any of the post-ROTJ books? They usually send in a special forces team without a fleet when attacking enemy installations.
Read Above.
Fishy, prove that is was all luck against the Empire and prove that the same level of luck would be needed to take down Revan's Empire. Then stop shouting BS like that.
Yeah sure the ewoks and whatever were planned... And if you read my first big post on the matter you would already know what kind of extreme luck the alliance would need.
They don't need to land their entire fleet because they won't send them all at the same time. They need to get one or two ships shuttles, which should be relatively easy, and Rouge Squadron. It should be very easy for the Republic ships to make it. Also, seeing as how all ten people survived the crash in the Ebon Hawk and the Rebel ships have superior crash safety equipment, it is unreasonable to state that more than one or two, if any at all, of the commandos would die during the crash even out of a team of a hundred or so men.
Well something that big would probably be spotted, I don't see how roque squadron helps because they won't be able to fly anymore but whatever if you want them there then thats fine with me. They would however still crash. Perhaps all the ships could land in area's where its safe to land where they wouldn't be quickly destroyed by Rancors which I doubt, perhaps they could all land near each other so that they could offer support each other, but I doubt that as well. The chances of that happening are extremely small even with the greatest of pilots and ships. Besides that beach was really small.
There are no Jedi at this point other than Luke(perhaps you could count Katarn). Luke didn't start his academy until 11 A.B.Y. and the New Republic was founded long before then.They don't need the elders. They are commando's with high powered explosives. Bam, the Temple wall was just blasted in.
The elders who wanted nothing more then to destroy the temple had amazing technology as you could see in their base. They didn't manage to blow up the walls. The Mandelorians had high powered explosions and they never opened the temple doors. Why not? Probably because it was impossible. And okay lets assume that just for a minute the temple walls can be blown then every single Sith in the temple would know they were coming. They would slaughter the commando's in no time.
The commando's however if they would somehow manage to slip by all those Dark Jedi and in some magical and unforseen way would manage to get to the computer at the top of the Star Forge would still not be able to get the codes for the shield, simply because they don't understand the Rakatan language and would never understand the computer. Also the shields are most likely powered from the Star Forge at least the elders or was it Bastila mentiones something like that, so blowing up the Temple of ancients wouldn't help them either.
Again, unnecessary. These are commando's with high powered explosives. They could easily just put a few shots into the shield generator.
Again if they don't get slaughtered by Dark Jedi then they wouldn't know what to do anyways and if they would blow things up it wouldn't serve any purpose except for making a nice explosion noise.
They don't need to fight any of the tribe members except some of the scouts. Rancors can be killed by several hundred blaster bolts from blaster rifles. Please note that the Sith made no attempt to stop Revan from getting the Temple with air attacks. It is likely they didn't know. The Rebels will just fly in on the far side of the planet from the Star Forge.
It is indeed likely that Malak who is an idiot didn't think that a cargo ship was any thread to him in a time when he ruled the galaxy.
It is likely however that Revan who is a military genius would think the same ship or even better drop ships guarded by roque squadron would be a threat in a time of a war that he is losing.
The situations are so entirely different, it can't even be compared. When turned into a corner Revan would make damn sure that even the smallest of strange things would be examined carefully.
Ackbar is easily as good as Revan in military tactics. The Star Forge was also fighting against the weaker Republic ships which are about equal to the Sith ships, making them 20-30 times weaker than the Rebel ships. With the amount of power the Rebels have, they don't need any tactics other than just sit there and shoot it. It will be destroyed with ease.
A lot of assumptions with nothing to back it up, not like it matters however even if you are right.
Originally posted by fisto/katarnrul
DO you even read what your writing. the SF makes ships a lot faster then the rebels. And the commandoes arent expecting a sheild that will force them to crash so they wouldnt have any safety equitment and when Revan finds out theirs rebels on the planet he'll just send way more than a 100 troopers
Yes, I'm sure the SF's purpose is to make ships faster then the Rebels who won't be around for another 4,000 years.
What do you think safety equipment is? "Okay guys, this might get bumpy, strap a pillow to your forehead!" No. It is built into the ship.
When Revan finds out, it will be too late.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yes, I'm sure there were Dark Jedi in every corner of everywhere.And the Galactic Empire was mostly humans also, with the exception of a few choice individuals like Thrawn, but the Bothans got information from them.
Damn I quoted myself instead of editing. Heh. Well, that is my newly revised post. /\
Originally posted by Fishy
Okay, so you are suggesting that a so called superior and more powerful rebel fleet is going to attack the last parts of the Sith Empire, their greatest stronghold thats going to be filled with a lot of Dark Jedi with a few special units? What kind of stupid thing would that be, they would of course assume the special units would reach the Star Forge, but if they would, they could never ever, ever get towards the centre of the Star Forge and destroy it. Never. So that would just be a waste of lives and I think the rebel alliance is smart enough to realise it.
Yes, that is what I am suggesting. How do you think they took down the Imperial stronghold? Special units. They know that they are doing.
Also, the Rebel Spies could very well discover that their is a shield.
Would you prefer if I played along with you and assume that the Rebels do send in a fleet(which they won't do). It doesn't help Revan much. They certainly aren't going to send in all of their fleet since a single Mon Calamari ship has more firepower than the entire Republic Fleet that was sent to destroy the SF had. They lose at most one ship.
Assuming in the unlikely event that the Rebel ship doesn't get word out to the Rebels, the Rebels are smart enough to figure out that there must be some sort of shield protecting it, since that is the only thing that could take out a ship faster than it would be able to send out a distress call.
Originally posted by Fishy
The chances of them sending in special units are very small, and if they would they would probably serve only as spies. Yeah sure they might have done so differently in the post ROTJ books, but this is a different time and it calls for different measures and tactics. Special forces are of no use when fighting Sith Lords.
And you said I wasn't backing up my statements? Lol. What a hypocrite.
Show me what makes these situations different.
Originally posted by Fishy
Okay, so lets say Commando's are going to be send, which is not the case, then they would face Rakatan warriors, Mandelorians, Dark Jedi and Rancors. If the Falcon would land in the middle of the temple courtyard it would be destroyed by the Rancors who are present in the area. If it wouldn't land there then its guns would be of no use. If the ship would carry hundreds of commando's that could form a powerful defense then they would have been noticed by a lot of things and the Sith would have probably send some things to shoot htem down. A small ship might go unnoticed when you aren't really looking for it. But a ship that carries a lot of people is going to be noticed and Revan isn't stupid enough to just assume they have died in the crash.
No, the commando's are smart enough to come in on the side of the planet facing away from the SF. There is no way for Revan to know they are coming, so the Sith who are not on the planet will do nothing to impede the commando's.
Rakata Warriors and Rancors are melee fighters with no armor. A single blaster shot could down a Rakata Warriors. They will be cut down with ease. Same with the Rancors. A hundred shots every second will burn through it's skin and kill it before it can even get close enough to the commando's to even attack them.
The Mandalorians are horribly out-numbered and has the disadvantage of lesser technology. Their blasters can't fire from as far as the commando's(23m for the Mandalorians and 34m for the commando's[source, KOTOR for Mandalorians, Essential Guide to Weapons for commando's]).
Also note that their are only 10 or 12 Mandalorians on the planet. Not looking good for them, as a hundred blasters will cut them to pieces.
The Dark Jedi are in the Temple. There are maybe 20 of them in there. The commando's have higher explosives, which when tossed into a room with a Dark Jedi, bam, that one is dead. Rinse and repeat.
Originally posted by Fishy
Read Above.
I suggest you do the same.
Originally posted by Fishy
Yeah sure the ewoks and whatever were planned... And if you read my first big post on the matter you would already know what kind of extreme luck the alliance would need.
You gave no support for how much luck the Rebels would need, since it doesn't come down to just luck.
Whoever said that the Ewoks was planned?
Originally posted by Fishy
Well something that big would probably be spotted, I don't see how roque squadron helps because they won't be able to fly anymore but whatever if you want them there then thats fine with me. They would however still crash. Perhaps all the ships could land in area's where its safe to land where they wouldn't be quickly destroyed by Rancors which I doubt, perhaps they could all land near each other so that they could offer support each other, but I doubt that as well. The chances of that happening are extremely small even with the greatest of pilots and ships. Besides that beach was really small.
They are on the far side of the planet. There is no way for them to be detected.
Check your info. Rouge Squadron is not only an elite-fighter pilot group, but also an elite commando team.
There was still plenty of room on the beach for some more ships. The Assault Shuttles are really small for how many people they carry, about the same size as the Ebon Hawk. Two could probably land in the same place, but lets say that they do have to land in seperate places. There is still fifty people per ship, enough to fight off the Rakata(which would easily be killed, as shown above), and to kill the Rancor and Mandalorians(also shown above). This could actually work to the Rebels advantage because they now have flanking positions.
Originally posted by Fishy
The elders who wanted nothing more then to destroy the temple had amazing technology as you could see in their base. They didn't manage to blow up the walls. The Mandelorians had high powered explosions and they never opened the temple doors. Why not? Probably because it was impossible. And okay lets assume that just for a minute the temple walls can be blown then every single Sith in the temple would know they were coming. They would slaughter the commando's in no time.
The Elders had an electric fence. Wow. They must be gods. If the Elders had anything better than base defenses(such as offensive weaponry) they would have killed the Mandalorians and warrior Rakata, then opened the temple and shut down the shield, hoping someone would manage to destroy the SF.
Prove that the Mandalorians have high powered explosives and the intent of destroying the temple. It is possible that the Mandalorians didn't even care about temple.
You are also assuming that the Sith will not be thrown off balance by an unexpected explosion. The Sith would also be hurt by the explosion. It's likely that three or four Sith would die in the blast(since they are near the walls. Also, Sith can't block 100 blaster bolts. Even Mace knew he couldn't block 14, are you telling me these guys are better than him?
Originally posted by Fishy
The commando's however if they would somehow manage to slip by all those Dark Jedi and in some magical and unforseen way would manage to get to the computer at the top of the Star Forge would still not be able to get the codes for the shield, simply because they don't understand the Rakatan language and would never understand the computer. Also the shields are most likely powered from the Star Forge at least the elders or was it Bastila mentiones something like that, so blowing up the Temple of ancients wouldn't help them either.
Wrong. The shield was said to be projected from the planet. Destroying the temple will destroy the shield.
Originally posted by Fishy
Again if they don't get slaughtered by Dark Jedi then they wouldn't know what to do anyways and if they would blow things up it wouldn't serve any purpose except for making a nice explosion noise.
See above, you are wrong.
Originally posted by Fishy
It is indeed likely that Malak who is an idiot didn't think that a cargo ship was any thread to him in a time when he ruled the galaxy.
What makes you think Malak is dumb? He had to be smart enough to become DLOS and keep his title. He was smart enough to wage a war against the Republic.
Also, it doesn't matter is Revan would see the Ebon Hawk if he was in Malak's shoes, we are talking about different ships. I've already explained how they would get through.
Originally posted by Fishy
It is likely however that Revan who is a military genius would think the same ship or even better drop ships guarded by roque squadron would be a threat in a time of a war that he is losing.
Revan can't see the ships.
Originally posted by Fishy
The situations are so entirely different, it can't even be compared. When turned into a corner Revan would make damn sure that even the smallest of strange things would be examined carefully.
Prove that. Revan isn't perfet, stop acting like it.
Originally posted by Fishy
A lot of assumptions with nothing to back it up, not like it matters however even if you are right.
You've made more assumptions than I have in this, so you're not one to be pointing fingers.