Rebel Alliance versus Revan's Sith Empire

Originally posted by Fishy
Few things wrong with that theory

1.) How the hell would the alliance know the shield generator is there?

2.) Even if they would somehow find out then they would still have to land on the planet near that area, possible perhaps but still they would probably be seen.

3.) They would need to somehow convince the Rakatan to do the ritual for them that allows them acces. Problem is no translation droid can understand the Rakatan and unless you have the force you can't learn it either. And guess what, those guys don't have the force. Except for Luke but what thats just one.

4.) Lets say they do learn the Rakatan ritual and they do get the Rakatan to preform it, then they would need the force to enter the temple. Pretty much destroying any team you build, with the exception of Luke and possibly Leia maybe Katarn if you want.

5.) Luke and Leia alone would never ever be able to fight their way through the dozens of Dark Jedi Masters and even some of Revan his most trusted followers and get to the top of the building.

6.) To open the door you would need an account of some sort on the computer in the basement the computer however refuses to give out that account to just anybody, Revan however was there before and the Computer recognizes that so he re-installed Revan his account.

So honestly its freaking impossible that anybody could go there and do all that shit. I also doubt that they could just blow the thing up, if you look at the Rakatan they probably have some good defense methods and they couldn't do it from space because there ships won't work.

And there is absolutely nothing to suggest that even a single rebel alliance ship would manage to keep on flying after they reach that shield.

Ebon Hawk managed a safe land, do you put it past Rebel ships and the Millenium Falcon?

You get what few Jedi Luke has trained, plus the Commandos, they can overwhelm the Rakata. Plus they make friends with the elder tribe who would be sympathetic to Rebels cause of destroying the SF.

Those Jedi can enter the temple, at around 9 A.B.Y, Luke had around a dozen. Plus himself. These Jedi, along with "Luke's Force heritage from his father" (blah, blah, blah) I'm sure would be sufficent enough to impress the computer. And unlike gamers, I doubt if this actually occurred, that the Jedi would go LOOKING IN EVERY CORNER of the temple for a fight, which I know you need not do to get to the basement and roof.

I'm honestly surprised noone has thought about the commandos outside the temple that may be able to offer some bombardment as a distraction. No one can prove that that temple is indestructable, and I'm sure the Rebels would have the artillery neccessary to destroy IT, and the shield controls.

Republic ships, which had taken a hell of a beating in the battle, were able to knock the SF out, WITH tech. that was 4000 years older than the Rebels.

1.) Yeah but when they were already crashing. The thing is when they find the Star forge they would launch a full scale attack or use special agents.

If they use a full scale attack their entire fleet will crash if they will use special agents then they probably won't have the force and they will probably die on the unknown planet, now wouldn't they? They know nothing about the Star Forge or the shield generator and I find it very unlikely that by some strange lucky coincidence they would send the Jedi to that planet without a large fleet to back them up. It would make them as lucky as they were against the Empire and nobody is that lucky twice.

2.) Yeah the hawk managed to land safely, the rebel ships might be able to land safely, but many other ships including mandelorian war ships who were far better then the hawk crashed merchant ships crashed. It depends on the skill of the pilot and probably the size of the ship. I don't think the alliance would have enough great pilots to land their entire fleet safely in one place..

3.) The commando's and the Jedi overwelm the commando's with Rancor war beats? Possible, I doubt it but possible even so overwelming the tribe of the one would hardly make them open the Temple, and going to the elders well nice and all but again what are the chances of there being Jedi that are able to learn the force?

4.) Its not a matter of impressing the computer as much as making it obey you. It wouldn't obey anybody but Revan and Malak... What chances does Luke have of persuading the computer, seeing as he's not Revan or Malak?

5.) Well if they are lucky enough to get there and slaughter all the rancors even the fully grown one's if they can slaughter the tribe of the one, get the elders to preform the ritual and then survive the counter attack from the Sith Fleet (which does have complete control of the air) then yes perhaps it is possible that the Rebel alliance would destroy the temple.

6.) Battle Meditation allowed a few of them to slip through the defense and bombard the SF without the Sith fleet stopping them. The fleet was lead by a Dodonna and the Sith fleet by Malak, Malak was a fool. Dodonna was not. Against Revan his military skills with battle mediation what chance would they have?

Seriously its so freaking unlikely that the Alliance would be so damn lucky that they could destroy the temple of ancients and the Star Forge. The chance of it happening is a million times smaller then the chances of it not happening.

1.) How would you know? They could send in the Falcon first to make sure the location is correct and not a trap.

1.) right so they send in the falcon, the falcon crashes loses its ability to communicate and all that shit.

Meaning that the crew of the falcon would somehow have to get the message of the shield out to the Jedi.

Of course its possible that the Jedi were send along, but like you said they are there to check for a trap. If its a trap the Jedi would be dead in seconds because the falcon alone could never ever hope to defeat the Sith fleet. Meaning dead Falcon crew and dead Jedi. they could have gone without Jedi in which they would have crashed they would have never gotten a message out and they would have most likely been slaughtered by the Rakatan.

In which case the republic would have learned absolutely nothing except for the fact that the Falcon would have went down and the Sith fleet would be allerted to them knowing the location of the Star Forge...

The Ebon Hawk had time to send a transmission before crashing and time to get the shields down before the fleet arrived.

Originally posted by Shadow x 20
The Ebon Hawk had time to send a transmission before crashing and time to get the shields down before the fleet arrived.

They send a transmittion before entering the shields and again after getting the codes for the shield so that they could fly again.

Erm. . . Sorry, Fishy. I have to agree with the others, too. The Rebel's ships are far more powerful than anything Revan has at his command. His Force-users, I doubt, aren't powerful enough to turn the tide in space. In space figher-to-fighter combat, Revan's going down. Now, on Ground battles, it might be a different story, but even then, the Rebel's technology puts Revan's to shame.

The Star Forge is uber. . . but it has weaknesses. Also, tactically, I don't think that Revan is leagues above Admiral Ackbar, if he is at all.

How does that matter, the rebel alliance could never take down Revan his most powerful stronghold. The Star Forge can keep on spitting out ships and the rebel alliance would become weaker and weaker while Revan just becomes stronger and stronger.

That and he has Sith working with him. Really the alliance might be more powerful and they might be able to beat Revan in a full out war, something that I heavily doubt. But whatever. But the rebel alliance could never ever, ever take the Star Forge down. Revan can't lose.

Originally posted by Fishy
How does that matter, the rebel alliance could never take down Revan his most powerful stronghold. The Star Forge can keep on spitting out ships and the rebel alliance would become weaker and weaker while Revan just becomes stronger and stronger.

That and he has Sith working with him. Really the alliance might be more powerful and they might be able to beat Revan in a full out war, something that I heavily doubt. But whatever. But the rebel alliance could never ever, ever take the Star Forge down. Revan can't lose.

Are you trying to convince yourself? Your last statements look very . . . questionable. Revan can lose.

Tactically, there is nothing that gives the indication that he is above Admiral Ackbar. So, for our purposes, we can assume that they are both equal. The Rebel Alliance has many more generals, and their pilots put Revan's to sheer shame. In space battles, the Rebel's outgun Revan by a lot. Revan can't beat them in power. In ground battles, it will be closer. But I still don't think his empire would be enough to instill a victory. Rebels were sometimes successful when they used guerilla tactics against the Empire, on ground battles. And, let's face it, the Empire could wipe its ass with Revan's army.

So, all in all, I'd say the Rebels win.

Are you just ignoring my posts or something?

Even if they would destroy all of Revan his empire outside of the Star Forge shield they still could not ever take the Star Forge. Every attack would make them weaker while at the same time Revan just becomes stronger and stronger inside the shield. His fleet growing until eventually they would just outnumber the Rebellion, launch those ships at the Rebell alliance with kamikaze techniques... Rebel alliance = dead.

Not unless they took down the Forge's shield. Then they can launch an invasion inside the Forge. Sorry, but some dozen odd Siths can't take down an army of that size. The Rebels will still win.

Read my previous posts... I have already adressed that issue.

Originally posted by Escape81
Are you trying to convince yourself? Your last statements look very . . . questionable. Revan can lose.

Tactically, there is nothing that gives the indication that he is above Admiral Ackbar. So, for our purposes, we can assume that they are both equal. The Rebel Alliance has many more generals, and their pilots put Revan's to sheer shame. In space battles, the Rebel's outgun Revan by a lot. Revan can't beat them in power. In ground battles, it will be closer. But I still don't think his empire would be enough to instill a victory. Rebels were sometimes successful when they used guerilla tactics against the Empire, on ground battles. And, let's face it, the Empire could wipe its ass with Revan's army.

So, all in all, I'd say the Rebels win.

First off IT wouldent matter if the rebel ships were stronger once they hit the sheild there capital ships will crash and a doubt they could land those huge things safely at the speed their going down and were does it say that the rebels have more generals in kotor it didnt show all the sith generals in revans army did it

and revans a way better tactical stratigist then ackbar

Notice how there are more than 26 keys on your keyboard? You are allowed to use those ones too.

Originally posted by Fishy
1.) Yeah but when they were already crashing. The thing is when they find the Star forge they would launch a full scale attack or use special agents.

They would use special agents, seeing as that has been their tactic most of the time in the past.

Originally posted by Fishy
If they use a full scale attack their entire fleet will crash if they will use special agents then they probably won't have the force and they will probably die on the unknown planet, now wouldn't they? They know nothing about the Star Forge or the shield generator and I find it very unlikely that by some strange lucky coincidence they would send the Jedi to that planet without a large fleet to back them up. It would make them as lucky as they were against the Empire and nobody is that lucky twice.

No, they wouldn't. Why would non-force users die on the planet? Page's Commando team would easily fight off any Mandalorian and Rakata scouts. If it's the Falcon, can you say anti-personal repeater blaster? Any landing team that the Alliance would chose to send would be well able to defend itself while on the planet.

Have you read any of the post-ROTJ books? They usually send in a special forces team without a fleet when attacking enemy installations.

Fishy, prove that is was all luck against the Empire and prove that the same level of luck would be needed to take down Revan's Empire. Then stop shouting BS like that.

Originally posted by Fishy
2.) Yeah the hawk managed to land safely, the rebel ships might be able to land safely, but many other ships including mandelorian war ships who were far better then the hawk crashed merchant ships crashed. It depends on the skill of the pilot and probably the size of the ship. I don't think the alliance would have enough great pilots to land their entire fleet safely in one place..

They don't need to land their entire fleet because they won't send them all at the same time. They need to get one or two ships shuttles, which should be relatively easy, and Rouge Squadron. It should be very easy for the Republic ships to make it. Also, seeing as how all ten people survived the crash in the Ebon Hawk and the Rebel ships have superior crash safety equipment, it is unreasonable to state that more than one or two, if any at all, of the commandos would die during the crash even out of a team of a hundred or so men.

Originally posted by Fishy
3.) The commando's and the Jedi overwelm the commando's with Rancor war beats? Possible, I doubt it but possible even so overwelming the tribe of the one would hardly make them open the Temple, and going to the elders well nice and all but again what are the chances of there being Jedi that are able to learn the force?

There are no Jedi at this point other than Luke(perhaps you could count Katarn). Luke didn't start his academy until 11 A.B.Y. and the New Republic was founded long before then.

They don't need the elders. They are commando's with high powered explosives. Bam, the Temple wall was just blasted in.

Originally posted by Fishy
4.) Its not a matter of impressing the computer as much as making it obey you. It wouldn't obey anybody but Revan and Malak... What chances does Luke have of persuading the computer, seeing as he's not Revan or Malak?

Again, unnecessary. These are commando's with high powered explosives. They could easily just put a few shots into the shield generator.

Originally posted by Fishy
5.) Well if they are lucky enough to get there and slaughter all the rancors even the fully grown one's if they can slaughter the tribe of the one, get the elders to preform the ritual and then survive the counter attack from the Sith Fleet (which does have complete control of the air) then yes perhaps it is possible that the Rebel alliance would destroy the temple.

They don't need to fight any of the tribe members except some of the scouts. Rancors can be killed by several hundred blaster bolts from blaster rifles. Please note that the Sith made no attempt to stop Revan from getting the Temple with air attacks. It is likely they didn't know. The Rebels will just fly in on the far side of the planet from the Star Forge.

Originally posted by Fishy
6.) Battle Meditation allowed a few of them to slip through the defense and bombard the SF without the Sith fleet stopping them. The fleet was lead by a Dodonna and the Sith fleet by Malak, Malak was a fool. Dodonna was not. Against Revan his military skills with battle mediation what chance would they have?

Ackbar is easily as good as Revan in military tactics. The Star Forge was also fighting against the weaker Republic ships which are about equal to the Sith ships, making them 20-30 times weaker than the Rebel ships. With the amount of power the Rebels have, they don't need any tactics other than just sit there and shoot it. It will be destroyed with ease.

Originally posted by Fishy
Seriously its so freaking unlikely that the Alliance would be so damn lucky that they could destroy the temple of ancients and the Star Forge. The chance of it happening is a million times smaller then the chances of it not happening.

Sounds to me like you are trying to convince yourself more than anyone else.

Yah but how do you know if destroying the computer would bring down the sheild. It was ment to stay on destroying it would keep it on forever.

Originally posted by Fishy
Are you just ignoring my posts or something?

Even if they would destroy all of Revan his empire outside of the Star Forge shield they still could not ever take the Star Forge. Every attack would make them weaker while at the same time Revan just becomes stronger and stronger inside the shield. His fleet growing until eventually they would just outnumber the Rebellion, launch those ships at the Rebell alliance with kamikaze techniques... Rebel alliance = dead.

Wrong. You are assuming that the Star Forge can produce more ships than the Rebel's ship yards. It is a very unlikely prospect, seeing that the Republic was able to fend them off for several years(even when Revan was leading them). The Republic back then had little in the way of shipyards back then and Revan started out on almost the same level as the Republic(out-numbered 2-1 in ships, but even in Jedi).

Also, the Rebels could easily just sit outside the system on the hyperspace routes with interdictor-ships outside of the shield(even though I have already shown that they could take it down), and keep Revan trapped in their until the Star Forge runs out of resources with which to build ships. At which point Revan is even more screwed.

Originally posted by fisto/katarnrul
Yah but how do you know if destroying the computer would bring down the sheild. It was ment to stay on destroying it would keep it on forever.

Destroy the generator, not the computer. Please read more carefully next time.

If Revan could dont you think he wouldve destroyed it.