Character Ownage

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol

The reasons I watch WWE and pro-wrestling in general are completely different than the reasons I read Marvel or comics in general.

WWE actually puts on good matches and has had some good angles for the past year or so (thanks in large part to CM Punk's summer).

AvX is basically crapping on both the Avengers and X-Men franchises to make a quick buck.

I don't read comics books for feats, battles, and random fights as a rule. I like them as much as the next guy, but the story is what's most important to me. With wrestling, I'm not expecting award winning caliber of story telling. At best, a good angle that makes sense or is hilarious in some form is all I need, and even then, the in-ring action can make or break that. There's also the fact I have some psuedo-professional interest in the industry as well.

I made you drink a beer CM Punk! Now you are an alcoholic!!!!!! 😎

I just find it curious that people can enjoy Wrestling on the same merits they use to criticize and debase AvX. If you can appreciate those qualities in one medium... what exactly is preventing you from doing the same here? Obviously AvX isn't Planetary... but isn't trying to be. Marvel doesn't have an illusions about this story, they've been pretty candid with it from the get go. AvX is a Wrestling Match. It's Deadliest Warrior. It's a bin full of action figures. That's all it is... it's not going to rise to any lofty heights. It's about comic book characters fighting each other, and anyone who says that doesn't interest them while they happen to be posting on a comic book versus forum (where they spent hours of their free time arguing with strangers over which make believe character would win in a fight) is lying...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I made you drink a beer CM Punk! Now you are an alcoholic!!!!!! 😎

I just find it curious that people can enjoy Wrestling on the same merits they use to criticize and debase AvX. If you can appreciate those qualities in one medium... what exactly is preventing you from doing the same here? Obviously AvX isn't Planetary... but isn't trying to be. Marvel doesn't have an illusions about this story, they've been pretty candid with it from the get go. AvX is a Wrestling Match. It's Deadliest Warrior. It's a bin full of action figures. That's all it is... it's not going to rise to any lofty heights. It's about comic book characters fighting each other, and anyone who is posting on a forum about fighting with other people on the internet about which characters would win in a fight, and is saying the concept of AvX has no interest to them... is lying.

That rivalry was pretty awesome, actually.

Like I said, I don't hold up wrestling to the same scrutiny as I do comic books. They may often hold a very similar demographic (a lot of fans and wrestlers enjoy comics), but they're completely different forms of entertainment with completely different methods of engaging their fanbases.

The reasons why I like and enjoy wrestling =/= reasons why I like and enjoy comics. And I'm pretty sure anyone else who enjoys both to about the same degree, give or take, will agree.

AvX is getting so much flack because while Marvel is honest about the intent behind it, the actual issues are bad. Of course I'm not expecting Eisner award winning material, but I'm not expecting rampant issues filled with PIS, contrite plot twists/holes, butchering of established characters and laughably bad dialogue. Having a fight for the sake of fight is one thing and in of itself, not bad. Going about it and making them terrible stories is something else entirely. There's been plenty of single issues or short arcs in comics centered around fights and huge brawls and they've been handled with more care this event.

I'd much rather watch CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan than read more issues of AvX and watch the Marvel Universe sink lower with the ridiculousness of the Phoenix Five. And while I do participate in the Versus Forum, that doesn't mean I see comics in the battleforum view AvX caters to, either.

Good wrestling is good wrestling. Good comics are good comics. And the same applies to the opposite end of the spectrum.

^ The above is exactly why AvX is being lampooned.

Originally posted by The Sorrow

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That rivalry was pretty awesome, actually.

Like I said, I don't hold up wrestling to the same scrutiny as I do comic books. They may often hold a very similar demographic (a lot of fans and wrestlers enjoy comics), but they're completely different forms of entertainment with completely different methods of engaging their fanbases.

The reasons why I like and enjoy wrestling =/= reasons why I like and enjoy comics. And I'm pretty sure anyone else who enjoys both to about the same degree, give or take, will agree.

AvX is getting so much flack because while Marvel is honest about the intent behind it, the actual issues are bad. Of course I'm not expecting Eisner award winning material, but I'm not expecting rampant issues filled with PIS, contrite plot twists/holes, butchering of established characters and laughably bad dialogue. Having a fight for the sake of fight is one thing and in of itself, not bad. Going about it and making them terrible stories is something else entirely. There's been plenty of single issues or short arcs in comics centered around fights and huge brawls and they've been handled with more care this event.

I'd much rather watch CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan than read more issues of AvX and watch the Marvel Universe sink lower with the ridiculousness of the Phoenix Five. And while I do participate in the Versus Forum, that doesn't mean I see comics in the battleforum view AvX caters to, either.

Good wrestling is good wrestling. Good comics are good comics. And the same applies to the opposite end of the spectrum.

I still don't understand the rational. If "contrite plot twists/holes, butchering of established characters and laughably bad dialogue" isn't a perfect summation of Pro Wrestling, then I don't know what it is. If you are able to look past that enjoy Wrestling as mindless entertainment... why can't you do that here? I'm not trying to say AvX is good - it's not - I just think it's incredibly hypocritical that many posters on this and other forum criticize AvX for the qualities they seem to enjoy in other mediums.

lmao
Incoming Rage...haermm

Originally posted by Estacado
lmao
Incoming Rage...haermm

Rachel also smacked Thor around in that issue too. 😈

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I still don't understand the rational. If "contrite plot twists/holes, butchering of established characters and laughably bad dialogue" isn't a perfect summation of Pro Wrestling, then I don't know what it is. If you are able to look past that enjoy Wrestling as mindless entertainment... why can't you do that here? I'm not trying to say AvX is good - it's not - I just think it's incredibly hypocritical that many posters on this and other forum criticize AvX for the qualities they seem to enjoy in other mediums.

I'm telling you its stupidity overload. I think if the last five events werent so stupid this probably wouldnt catch as much flack.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Rachel also smacked Thor around in that issue too. 😈

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I still don't understand the rational. If "contrite plot twists/holes, butchering of established characters and laughably bad dialogue" isn't a perfect summation of Pro Wrestling, then I don't know what it is. If you are able to look past that enjoy Wrestling as mindless entertainment... why can't you do that here? I'm not trying to say AvX is good - it's not - I just think it's incredibly hypocritical that many posters on this and other forum criticize AvX for the qualities they seem to enjoy in other mediums.

Because wrestling openly embraces the ridiculous aspect of what it brings to the table and openly gives a wink and nudge to the absurdness of it to anyone smart enough to find it. And wrestling isn't held up to the same standard as comic books, especially not when it comes to story-telling (which is secondary for wrestling to the actual in-ring work, which is supposed to tell the story on its own).

It's apples and oranges, really.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
^ The above is exactly why AvX is being lampooned.

And whats wrong with what's being potrayed in that scan?
Could it be youre upset with Thors' showings as a whole?
If Kid Glads were to somehow pick the hammer up then I would see your point.

Sometimes I think people just nitpick a little to much. Everything is not going to be tailor made to suit a select group of people everytime. Not only in the case of comics but life in general.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Rachel also smacked Thor around in that issue too. 😈

Originally posted by Sundipped
And whats wrong with what's being potrayed in that scan?
Could it be youre upset with Thors' showings as a whole?
If Kid Glads were to somehow pick the hammer up then I would see your point.

Sometimes I think people just nitpick a little to much. Everything is not going to be tailor made to suit a select group of people everytime. Not only in the case of comics but life in general.

Thor's dialogue is horrendous. His feats and showings don't bother me. Sure, I'd prefer he wasn't Worf Effected all the time, but whatever. The fact that his character has been shat on habitually since Fraction came on board does bother me. And it's heavily influenced by the movies.

The Kid Gladiator/Spider-Woman moment is ridiculous.

Angel's comment about War Machine is laughably bad.

That page was like a perfect summary of AvX.

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
[B]I think its more of a summation of marvel last couple of events coupled with this one thats getting on everyones nerves.
Civil war, Secret Invasion, chaos war, Siege ,Fear Itself and now this. That a lot of strike outs.

I'm telling you its stupidity overload. I think if the last five events werent so stupid this probably wouldnt catch as much flack. [/B][/QUOTE]

Maybe... but honestly other than FI, all those events are so far in the rear view mirror of my conscious thought, and outside of CW they weren't really memorable enough to color my opinion over anything. Those events being so blahze and nondescript, I can't be bothered to even think about them.

Civil War was one of the worst things to happen to Marvel.

They had a great and critically acclaimed event which got people into, or back into, comics, and it went completely to their collective heads. Now all the single issues do nowadays are help build up to the events instead of tell worth while stories on their own.

Originally posted by Estacado
I remember him saying "Zomg Thor is the one who handles main baddies these days ala Sentry in siege I bet he will have some good showings against Phoenix".... haermm

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor's dialogue is horrendous. His feats and showings don't bother me. Sure, I'd prefer he wasn't Worf Effected all the time, but whatever. The fact that his character has been shat on habitually since Fraction came on board does bother me. And it's heavily influenced by the movies.

The Kid Gladiator/Spider-Woman moment is ridiculous.

Angel's comment about War Machine is laughably bad.

That page was like a perfect summary of AvX.

🙄

The dialogue is fine.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
🙄

The dialogue is fine.

Whatever floats your boat.

No one who's actually read a great deal of Thor before Fraction got his mitts on him can actually say that Thor hasn't regressed backwards or that his current characterization isn't directly inspired from the movie.

As far as the other stuff goes, it's all blatantly laughable.