Originally posted by janus77
Really though, Thor's benefited from huge amounts of PIS and CIS in the past, now it seems he's being brought back to 'earth'.
The Odin/Celestials compared to Thor/Celestials really sticks out and pisses me off.
Other examples include : "multiversal lightening" vs Chaos King and Masterson Thor dropping Power Gem amped Thanos.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Not really, He was completely psychotic hallucinating and everything that goes with it. Outside of these conditions and in a non-pyschotic mindstate holding back or not (and even when he is threatening to kill), he has never replicated such a disparity between he and his peers.
Yes really. Of course he was, but the point stands. The madness didn't do anything else but give him the will to kill and not hold back on his comrades. Since any amp was pretty much taken out of the picture when Odin said it wasn't true warrior madness. To me it seems pretty clear what the intention of the arc was. Besides he's only had a few other showings against the people he fought in that arc anyway. So it's hard to compare it. He went on to one shot BRB right after the event was over also.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Lol @ trying to pass Blood & Thunder as a non holding back Thor.
Lol @ sainyg it isn't just to lowball Thor.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Yes really. Of course he was, but the point stands. The madness didn't do anything else but give him the will to kill and not hold back on his comrades. Since any amp was pretty much taken out of the picture when Odin said it wasn't true warrior madness. To me it seems pretty clear what the intention of the arc was. Besides he's only had a few other showings against the people he fought in that arc anyway. So it's hard to compare it. He went on to one shot BRB right after the event was over also.
Not saying he was amped, but im saying that the level he got to was a direct result of the psychosis and even if these are his true levels or what have you (which i dont buy) he hasnt shown he can reach them without some psycho-spiritual tampering. If he was even in a blind rage then i would see its applicability but given the depth of psychological tampering (Heck the real Thor was locked up in chains inside his own mind) I dont see how it can be used in relation to regular Thor. Its like Black Celestial arc Galactus who was eating the Omniverse after Tiamut altered his hunger. Technically speaking there was no amp but we dont go using such a portrayal (which involved similar manipulation of the character) as representative of Galactus not holding back but rather acknowledge that those results were only shown to be achievable in the event of the manipulation that took place.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Not saying he was amped, but im saying that the level he got to was a direct result of the psychosis and even if these are his true levels or what have you (which i dont buy) he hasnt shown he can reach them without some psycho-spiritual tampering. If he was even in a blind rage then i would see its applicability but given the depth of psychological tampering (Heck the real Thor was locked up in chains inside his own mind) I dont see how it can be used in relation to regular Thor. Its like Black Celestial arc Galactus who was eating the Omniverse after Tiamut altered his hunger. Technically speaking there was no amp but we dont go using such a portrayal (which involved similar manipulation of the character) as representative of Galactus not holding back but rather acknowledge that those results were only shown to be achievable in the event of the manipulation that took place.
Ok I get what you're saying.
But here's the thing if he wasn't amped, then there's nothing to argue. Because he'd be at his normal levels.
The madness that took over his character did a few things: Took away his restraint, his morals, and gave him the will to kill. But even if that state of being were only achievable through madness (which isn't true in my opinion) that was still his power and his body achieving those feats. Nothing from the exterior that would increase his might, just him at his full physical capacity.
I haven't read much of that arc, but to me is sounds more like it would be perfectly achievable by Galactus, just that he wouldn't do it under normal circumstances.
Thor's always had the "will to kill", but usually not the ability 😉
And yes, zopzop, it's things like the feats you mention (and then some) that stick out as being examples of staggering PIS/CIS.
Every Surfer fight with Hulk demonstrates just how durable and superior he is compared to your standard heralds, yet Marvel never produce a fair account of Surfer when up against Thor. Why? for fear of the insane Thor fanatics (people who literally hound writers and proudly proclaim their 'victories' here).
Hulk beating Thor resoundingly, convincingly, consistently, is just about the funniest thing you can see, if you're not a Thor fanatic.
Here's a "god" that carries around his father's tool, and he can't compete for power or strength with a man with wonky genes!
Originally posted by Damborgson
Lol @ sainyg it isn't just to lowball Thor.
Even when not holding back we have seen Thor fail to replicate that level of power against his peers. It was stated in the run he was drawing strength from his insanity, he went from getting beat by Bill, to taking on several high heralds - shrugging off their attacks and one shotting them.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Ok I get what you're saying.But here's the thing if he wasn't amped, then there's nothing to argue. Because he'd be at his normal levels.
The madness that took over his character did a few things: Took away his restraint, his morals, and gave him the will to kill. But even if that state of being were only achievable through madness (which isn't true in my opinion) that was still his power and his body achieving those feats. Nothing from the exterior that would increase his might, just him at his full physical capacity.
I haven't read much of that arc, but to me is sounds more like it would be perfectly achievable by Galactus, just that he wouldn't do it under normal circumstances.
Well I agree that it was his body and power and whatnot and so it wasnt an amp directly if he has that but the complete mental fragmentation and lack of showings with a non-psychotic Thor achieving such is what rules it out its applicability(even while having the will to kill and not holding back).
The Black celestial arc is generally considered the same thing but ill just agree to disagree at this point. 🙂
Originally posted by janus77
Thor's always had the "will to kill", but usually not the ability 😉And yes, zopzop, it's things like the feats you mention (and then some) that stick out as being examples of staggering PIS/CIS.
Every Surfer fight with Hulk demonstrates just how durable and superior he is compared to your standard heralds, yet Marvel never produce a fair account of Surfer when up against Thor. Why? for fear of the insane Thor fanatics (people who literally hound writers and proudly proclaim their 'victories' here).
Hulk beating Thor resoundingly, convincingly, consistently, is just about the funniest thing you can see, if you're not a Thor fanatic.
Here's a "god" that carries around his father's tool, and he can't compete for power or strength with a man with wonky genes!
Yo...whats your beef with Thor and his fans?