Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Mr Master is probably celebrating with a bunch of hoes and a bottle of vodka somewhere .
Originally posted by Sundipped
Don't know why he'd be doing that. Especially when the force can be seen dispersed/rejuvenating afterwards.
Think about it ; According to the events in that issue, it's like Children's Crusade and the Lifeforce amp never happened. It's not mentioned at all. Just "Wanda's mutant Chaos Magic". This means that the power of the Phoenix undid "omniversal" HoM Wanda's hex. As stated on panel, the power of the Phoenix denied Wanda's 'no more mutant's hex' and Hope was born . Furthermore, the PF and Wanda's mutant Chaos Magic are yin and yang (shown on panel). That means if HoM Wanda is Omniversal, then so is the PF (seeing as how it's Wanda's antithesis).
Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah. In a way this was a good showing for the PF (finally).Think about it ; According to the events in that issue, it's like Children's Crusade and the Lifeforce amp never happened. It's not mentioned at all. Just "Wanda's mutant Chaos Magic". This means that the power of the Phoenix undid "omniversal" HoM Wanda's hex. As stated on panel, the power of the Phoenix denied Wanda's 'no more mutant's hex' and Hope was born . Furthermore, the PF and Wanda's mutant Chaos Magic are yin and yang (shown on panel). That means if HoM Wanda is Omniversal, then so is the PF (seeing as how it's Wanda's antithesis).
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Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah. In a way this was a good showing for the PF (finally).Think about it ; According to the events in that issue, it's like Children's Crusade and the Lifeforce amp never happened. It's not mentioned at all. Just "Wanda's mutant Chaos Magic". This means that the power of the Phoenix undid "omniversal" HoM Wanda's hex. As stated on panel, the power of the Phoenix denied Wanda's 'no more mutant's hex' and Hope was born . Furthermore, the PF and Wanda's mutant Chaos Magic are yin and yang (shown on panel). That means if HoM Wanda is Omniversal, then so is the PF (seeing as how it's Wanda's antithesis).
Originally posted by ODG
So long as you remember that it took Wanda, the Phoenix Force, and the Phoenix Force sacrificing itself in its totality to undo "No More Mutants." And whether that extends to the greater Multiverse remains to be confirmed.
Originally posted by ODG
So long as you remember that it took Wanda, the Phoenix Force, and the Phoenix Force sacrificing itself in its totality to undo "No More Mutants." And whether that extends to the greater Multiverse remains to be confirmed.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
... what?All the they did was allow 616 Earth mutants to form again. Omniversal my ass. I wonder what would have happened if a reality manipulator tried that.
Also, weaker SW and Hope using weaker SW's magic put an ass hurt on Phoenix
This was not a good showing.
Originally posted by zopzopYou can take Tony's theorycrafting character statements for all their worth. Because you do realize, that was Tony speaking the entire time. Wanda and the Phoenixforce are clearly counteracting agents, but the events of Avengers Vs. X-Men does not have the Phoenix Force performing equal feats of scale to Wanda in House of M. And this is rather evident.
So long as you remember that it was SHOWN on panel that the PF and Wanda's Hex Magic are Yin and Yang, it's all good. If HoM Wanda is Omniversal then so is the PF.
In terms of feats, HoM Wanda casually spoke three words and we know what happened thereafter, "No More Mutants" (and apparently on a Multiversal scale). The Phoenixforce in the meantime, manifested Hope who brought about five new mutants. Then at the climax of Avengers Vs. X-Men, the entire Phoenixforce exploded its entire power and with Wanda helping, undid "No More Mutants" at least on the 616 universe scale.
Had the Phoenixforce casually said, "More Mutants," without Wanda helping, without having to explode the entirety of its power, and apparently on the Multiversal scale, then it could be seen as operating on the same scale as HoM Wanda did. And you would have a rational basis for your conclusion.
Originally posted by ODG
You can take Tony's theorycrafting character statements for all their worth. Because you do realize, that was Tony speaking the entire time. Wanda and the Phoenixforce are clearly counteracting agents, but the events of Avengers Vs. X-Men does not have the Phoenix Force performing equal feats of scale to Wanda in House of M. And this is rather evident.In terms of feats, HoM Wanda casually spoke three words and we know what happened thereafter, "No More Mutants" (and apparently on a Multiversal scale). The Phoenixforce in the meantime, manifested Hope who brought about five new mutants. Then at the climax of Avengers Vs. X-Men, the entire Phoenixforce exploded its entire power [b]and with Wanda helping
, undid "No More Mutants" at least on the 616 universe scale.Had the Phoenixforce casually said, "More Mutants," without Wanda helping, without having to explode the entirety of its power, then it could be seen as operating on the same scale as HoM Wanda did. And you would have a rational basis for your conclusion. [/B]
It's stated right there on panel that the PF and Wanda's Chaos Magic are yin and yang, and it's depicted as such by the artist. How much clearer can it get?
I agree with ODG and Galan . The PF's dispersion reignited the X-Gene , and this incident was limited to Earth-616 as shown on-panel .
Whether it did the same for other realities as well is yet to be seen and is pure speculation at this point .
Reversing the effects of Wanda's power at a localized scale isn't really that hard anyways , as High Evolutionary proved by restoring Magneto's X-Gene with a lobotomized Celestial's cranial component .
Originally posted by zopzopBeing able to manifest one new mutant when millions were depowered does not put the Phoenixforce on an equal basis. Otherwise High Evolutionary restoring Magneto's power is an omniversal feat.
The very fact that Hope was born despite HOM OMNiversal Wanda's "no more mutant's" hex already proves my point. On panel it's stated the PF said "screw that, more mutants. and Hope was born".It's stated right there on panel that the PF and Wanda's Chaos Magic are yin and yang, and it's depicted as such by the artist.
It's stated by Tony Stark, which supports the clear notion that the two are counteracting agents. Tony's statements and theories do not support the idea that they are co-equals in omniversal power or significance.
Originally posted by zopzopIt doesn't get much clearer than the Phoenixforce having to use the entirety of its power (in a spectacular conflagration of self-sacrifice) while utilizing Wanda's assistance, to undo what HoM Wanda did super casually like sipping tea...
How much clearer can it get?
... and that's completely ignoring HoM Wanda's feat extending into the omniverse and Phoenixforce so far not having been confirmed to do so, at all.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller👆
I agree with ODG and Galan . The PF's dispersion reignited the X-Gene , and this incident was limited to Earth-616 as shown on-panel .Whether it did the same for other realities as well is yet to be seen and is pure speculation at this point .
Reversing the effects of Wanda's power at a localized scale isn't really that hard anyways , as High Evolutionary proved by restoring Magneto's X-Gene with a lobotomized Celestial's cranial component .
And again, even if it did extend to the greater omniverse, Wanda still helped the Phoenixforce do it. And HoM didn't have to literally kill herself in an ultimate testament of her power to do "No More Mutants" in the first place. So... yeah.
Frankly, Shao Lao has a far more legitimate and substantiated claim to be the Phoenixforce's equal than the Phoenixforce does to be HoM Wanda's equal.
Originally posted by ODG
Being able to manifest one new mutant when millions were depowered does not put the Phoenixforce on an equal basis. Otherwise High Evolutionary restoring Magneto's power is an omniversal feat.It's stated by Tony Stark, which supports the clear notion that the two are counteracting agents. Tony's statements and theories do not support the idea that they are co-equals in omniversal power or significance. It doesn't get much clearer than the Phoenixforce having to use the entirety of its power (in a spectacular conflagration of self-sacrifice) while utilizing Wanda's assistance, to undo what HoM Wanda did super casually like sipping tea...
... and that's completely ignoring HoM Wanda's feat extending into the omniverse and Phoenixforce so far not having been confirmed to do so, at all.
Furthermore, Wanda needed assistance to deal with the PF. She KOed herself dealing with P5 Namor while she had the Avengers running interference. She was powerless by herself vs P2 Scott.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I thought that it exploded , and its "dispersed" power ended up repowering the mutants , creating new "Lights" . Or at least that's what the cuckoos' cerebra scan indicates .
That is what happened but there is no indication that the Phoenix entity used it's own power in combination with Wandas to erase itself. Now that wouldn't make any sense.
In this scan, it's stated by Wanda that Hope is the only one with the strength to let it go. In no way does this insinuate the PF being utterly destroyed.
