Originally posted by zopzopTherefore HOM Wanda wasn't equal to the Force at all, but rather 1/5 of its power judging by your argument.
Furthermore, Wanda needed assistance to deal with the PF. She KOed herself dealing with P5 Namor while she had the Avengers running interference. She was powerless by herself vs P2 Scott.
Or you admit that Wanda was weaker, and weaker Wanda and Hope drawing off of weak Wanda's power put a whooping on the full force.
Originally posted by zopzopIt didn't implode. The Phoenixforce exploded. One new mutant being borne when countless millions were depowered causing omniversal upheaval illustrates that they are counteracting agents, not coequals. Might as well suggest Iron Fist no-selling Phoenix Cyclops once as elevating him to Trans status.
The PF undid the 'no more mutants' hex and reality didn't implode as a result. The PF allowed Hope to be born despite the "no more mutants" hex.
Originally posted by zopzopRight, Wanda. Not HoM Wanda.
Furthermore, Wanda needed assistance to deal with the PF. She KOed herself dealing with P5 Namor while she had the Avengers running interference. She was powerless by herself vs P2 Scott.
Originally posted by SundippedWhen Wanda holds her hands and literally mirrors her original spell, that's a pretty clear indication that Wanda helped. It wasn't as if Wanda stood to the side and offered Spider-Man moral support and Hope stood off on her own and said, "Ok, I'm letting you go." The parallel between "No More Mutants" and "No More Phoenix" wasn't unintentional.
That is what happened but there is no indication that the Phoenix entity used it's own power in combination with Wandas to erase itself. Now that wouldn't make any sense.In this scan, it's stated by Wanda that Hope is the only one with the strength to [B]let it go
. In no way does this insinuate the PF being utterly destroyed.
It exploded. On-panel. Reinforced by the Cuckoos stating as much. Which is also made only more obvious by "No More Phoenix." It wasn't "Phoenix go to pieces but be clearly not diminished in any way." It was "No More Phoenix."
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Therefore HOM Wanda wasn't equal to the Force at all, but rather 1/5 of its power judging by your argument.Or you admit that Wanda was weaker, and weaker Wanda and Hope drawing off of weak Wanda's power put a whooping on the full force.
Wanda couldn't undo her "no more mutants" hex (it's much easier to destroy than it is to create or maintain), Wanda couldn't handle 1/5 of the PF without help. All this isn't something I'm making up, this was shown on PANEL.
If HoM Wanda is omniversal, then so is the PF. It's that simple.
Originally posted by ODG
Right, Wanda. Not HoM Wanda.
Originally posted by zopzopSo what? Doesn't change what HoM Wanda did and what the Phoenixforce didn't do.
According to AvX there is no difference! Show me where the Lifeforce and Doom retcons were mentioned anywhere in AvX and I'll concede. If anything it was stated ON PANEL that it was Wanda and Wanda alone (no outside amps were mentioned) that started this whole mess with the "no more mutants" hex.
Nobody's asking you for your concession. Your damage control efforts are completely wasted. You want to elevate the Phoenixforce to omniversal level based on doing nothing on that level, go for it. You wouldn't be the first.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftAdjusted for more accuracy. Also: 😂
Wanda helping White Phoenix Hope (while Hope's real power is being able to mimic other powers) defeat her one spell planetwide at the cost of its own existence ...BEST SHOWING EVER
Omniversal.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Wanda helping White Phoenix Hope (while Hope's real power is being able to mimic other powers) defeat her one spell planetwide...BEST SHOWING EVER
Omniversal.
Originally posted by ODG
So what? Doesn't change what HoM Wanda did and what the Phoenixforce didn't do.Nobody's asking you for your concession. Your damage control efforts are completely wasted. You want to elevate the Phoenixforce to omniversal level based on doing nothing on that level, go for it. You wouldn't be the first. 😂
I'm fine with that.
Originally posted by zopzopYou realize you're arguing that the PF is equal to HOM Wanda while at the same time saying Wanda couldn't handle a 5th of the Phoenix's power... right? Do you not see how utterly stupid that premise is?
How weaker? SHOW ME where the Lifeforce or Doom was mentioned at all in those flashbacks or anywhere in the entire AvX crossover. Show me and I'll STFU. But you can't because they were never even mentioned. Just "Wanda's Chaos Magic" as a cosmic force opposed to the PF.Wanda couldn't undo her "no more mutants" hex (it's much easier to destroy than it is to create or maintain), Wanda couldn't handle 1/5 of the PF without help. All this isn't something I'm making up, this was shown on PANEL.
If HoM Wanda is omniversal, then so is the PF. It's that simple.
And I'll tell you why it wasn't mentioned... because she didn't have it. IE weaker.
And that doesn't make a lick of sense. One statement from Tony calling them yin and yang doesn't make Phoenix equal to HOM Wanda. We might as well start calling Apocalypse equal to the Phoenix and therefore equal to HOM Wanda. WOAH DAWG, APOC IS OMNIVERSAL BRO
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You realize you're arguing that the PF is equal to HOM Wanda while at the same time saying Wanda couldn't handle a 5th of the Phoenix's power... right? Do you not see how utterly stupid that premise is?And I'll tell you why it wasn't mentioned... because she didn't have it. IE weaker.
And that doesn't make a lick of sense. One statement from Tony calling them yin and yang doesn't make Phoenix equal to HOM Wanda. We might as well start calling Apocalypse equal to the Phoenix and therefore equal to HOM Wanda. WOAH DAWG, APOC IS OMNIVERSAL BRO
Regarding Yin and Yang, the whole point is that they fluctuate and ultimately remain in balance.
Originally posted by zopzopIt wasn't even HoM Wanda. HoM Wanda was already starting to break her hex in Children's Crusade (Rictor) until Doom yoinked her power away from her. /shrug
Too bad Omiversal Wanda was no match for the PF (not P5 Namor or P2 Scott). AND she needed it's power to break her Hex.I'm fine with that.
I'm sure you're fine with Shao Lao's Iron Fist power pwning the Phoenixforce on-panel in an actual fight as well. And Phoenixforce requiring Wanda's assistance and its own destruction to undo on an infintesimally smaller scale, what HoM Wanda did casually. /shrug x2
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftIron Fist being omniversal? Since a single Iron Fist (who wasn't even Lord Rand) already defeated the Phoenixforce on-panel? I can dig it. 👆
You realize you're arguing that the PF is equal to HOM Wanda while at the same time saying Wanda couldn't handle a 5th of the Phoenix's power... right? Do you not see how utterly stupid that premise is?And I'll tell you why it wasn't mentioned... because she didn't have it. IE weaker.
And that doesn't make a lick of sense. One statement from Tony calling them yin and yang doesn't make Phoenix equal to HOM Wanda. We might as well start calling Apocalypse equal to the Phoenix and therefore equal to HOM Wanda. WOAH DAWG, APOC IS OMNIVERSAL BRO
Originally posted by ODG
It wasn't even HoM Wanda. HoM Wanda was already starting to break her hex in Children's Crusade (Rictor) until Doom yoinked her power away from her. /shrugI'm sure you're fine with Shao Lao's Iron Fist power pwning the Phoenixforce on-panel in an actual fight as well. And Phoenixforce requiring Wanda's assistance and its own destruction to undo on an infintesimally smaller scale, what HoM Wanda did casually. /shrug x2
It's not like these events happened 30 years ago, yet they aren't mentioned once. Just "Wanda and her mutant Chaos Magic".
AvX Wanda IS HoM Wanda.
Originally posted by zopzopThis wasn't a Wanda story, why would that exist? Wanda lost the Lifeforce before AVX even started, no? Why would she have it suddenly? Just because it's not mentioned, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
A) Find me a scan anywhere in AvX or it's tie ins that states HoM Wanda did what she did because she had an outside amp
B) As shown on panel, AvX Wanda, which is HoM Wanda, is no match for even 1/5 of the PF if it's wielded by a competent user (1/2 of it completely no sold her best attack)
C) She couldn't undo her Hex without the power of the PFRegarding Yin and Yang, the whole point is that they fluctuate and ultimately remain in balance.
Because she's weaker, sure.
Because she's weaker, sure.
So really, Phoenix is 5 times as powerful as an omniversal warper. This is stupid. Nope.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
This wasn't a Wanda story, why would that exist? Wanda lost the Lifeforce before AVX even started, no? Why would she have it suddenly? Just because it's not mentioned, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
We however have Children's Crusade to answer that question... and SW's entire history before HOM. You know, where she wasn't as powerful without the Force. Otherwise, you can bet ass that I'll be making threads where Galactus beat HOM Wanda because he dismantled normal Wanda.Because she's weaker, sure.
Because she's weaker, sure.
So really, Phoenix is 5 times as powerful as an omniversal warper. This is stupid. Nope.
Originally posted by zopzopBecause it's not mentioned means it was all her...
Then show me? I'm providing you scans, here it is again :
See that? [b]It was Wanda's power that rewrote the natural order. It was Wanda's power that made it happen. Not Doom influenced Wanda who was wielding the all powerful Lifeforce. [/B]
Well, here's Omniversal Scarlet Witch being completely upstaged by Surfer.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Heroes/GalactusTheDevourer3-10.jpg
I'll be back after supper
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Because it's not mentioned means it was all her...Well, here's Omniversal Scarlet Witch being completely upstaged by Surfer.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Heroes/GalactusTheDevourer3-10.jpgI'll be back after supper
One more question for anyone who wants to answer:
Where does this leave us?
Are we now supposed to believe Chthons power>>Phoenix force? Even though she had zero effect on a PF host with half of the power?
Or is it the combination of Chaos magic and probability = any warp with unlimited possibilities?
Throw in the fact that she is a nexus being also.
Marvel writers get it together please.
They should have background checks for writers in terms of the character they're handling before they write this stuff.
