Originally posted by -Pr-Hahaha, WTF? Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster had written Lois as day one to be Superman's love interest. You don't like it, tough luck for you.
Perry White is an integral part of Superman's mythos too, but nobody expects Superman to **** him.
It's not an excuse. It's one of the fundamental aspects of Superman Mythos. And getting written badly isn't her fault.It's a lame excuse, especially with how badly she gets written.
No book treated them as a real couple. It was just a PR stunt. Geoff Johns himself has barely written any romantic scenes between them since Throne of Atlantis. It's all limited to SM/WW book.lol, no they ****ing didn't. Two books treated them as a proper couple, and one book was that awful book by Soule that was probably that bad in protest.
So you want her to not exist at all in Superman comics? Because she has barely appeared in any comics besides Lobdell. It's not enough for her to be reduced in importance but you want her to be removed entirety from the franchise? Sorry but that's simply not possible.Guys like Lobdell showed how ****ing petty and unprofessional they could be by shoehorning Lois in to every ****ing Superman story they could, and as if that wasn't bad enough, they made Super-cuckold whine about Lois while being with Diana.
That's Lobdell fault.It's a horrible way to treat the character, especially with the downturn he's been on.
Why does it matter if she was in a previous relationship? She could be written as anything and you would mind. Because you are taking her early years as the general writing of the character and forgot any character development in the later years.I wouldn't mind if he was with Lois, if only she wasn't so often as an unappreciative, borderline narcissistic **** who probably ****ed Bruce Wayne long before she ever met Clark.
So now, we really didn't get to see the relationship flourish at ****ing all.
What would the relationship flourish into? Three years and it's at the same level where it started. If you think it had any other outcome in even next ten years, you're just kidding yourself. Even twenty years down the line, it would've been in the same spot it's in today.
Originally posted by SquallX
I grew up on Superman, as a kid i use to like Lois, then you grow up and reliaze intergral in the Superman mythos or not, she's pretty much a useless character.Clark is always saving her, she purposely puts herself in danger.
At least with Diana, Clark didn't have to pretend. Vice versa with Diana and Steve.
I suggest reading some comics from modern Era. The last time Lois was throwing herself in danger was in 60s. That hasn't happened in several decades as character trait.
That's one of the most superficial excuses for Superman dating wonder woman. By that standard no hero should date a human character or should be in contact with.
By that logic there shouldn't be any human element in Superman comics because the same villains who will harm Lois will harm anybody in contact with superman to hurt him.
Right? Who needs drama in comics? It's a just "I love you" and "Let's kiss in the same pose for twenty comics".
Seriously **** SM/WW.
Originally posted by abhilegendCalm down. Lois is boring and his relationship with her is played out. Kc Superman the superior Superman made the right choices. 🙂
Everybody is useless next to ****ing Superman.I suggest reading some comics from modern Era. The last time Lois was throwing herself in danger was in 60s. That hasn't happened in several decades as character trait.
That's one of the most superficial excuses for Superman dating wonder woman. By that standard no hero should date a human character or should be in contact with.
By that logic there shouldn't be any human element in Superman comics because the same villains who will harm Lois will harm anybody in contact with superman to hurt him.
Right? Who needs drama in comics? It's a just "I love you" and "Let's kiss in the same pose for twenty comics".
Seriously **** SM/WW.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, WTF? Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster had written Lois as day one to be Superman's love interest. You don't like it, tough luck for you.
how does that argument carry any weight whatsoever? Claremont wanted Sinister to be a twelve year old boy. Stan Lee once said that Cyclops was the most powerful of the original X-Men.
Their intent is supposed to be an argument how?
It's not an excuse. It's one of the fundamental aspects of Superman Mythos. And getting written badly isn't her fault.
it's fundamental that she was a love interest, not that she was with him. how many years was it before they got together? We both know the answer to that one.
No book treated them as a real couple. It was just a PR stunt.
JL did. SM/WW did. Badly in the latter, but still.
Geoff Johns himself has barely written any romantic scenes between them since Throne of Atlantis. It's all limited to SM/WW book.
Assuming that's true, it just proves my point even moreso. I don't wholly agree, but the coupling not being given a chance was exactly my point in the first place, so thanks for that.
So you want her to not exist at all in Superman comics? Because she has barely appeared in any comics besides Lobdell. It's not enough for her to be reduced in importance but you want her to be removed entirety from the franchise? Sorry but that's simply not possible.
She appeared in plenty; probably more than Diana, if not just as many. I never said anything about removing her from the franchise either. I just don't like them hurting the Superman character by doing what they did to him.
That's Lobdell fault. Why does it matter if she was in a previous relationship? She could be written as anything and you would mind. Because you are taking her early years as the general writing of the character and forgot any character development in the later years.
lol, no. You don't get to pull that card with me. She was being written badly well in to the reboot, and if you want the last example of her being badly written when they were together? Verheiden's run on Superman around IC didn't paint her too well. Then there was Austen. Hell, the only writer that, imo, wrote her any way tolerable was the guy you dislike so much: Johns.
What would the relationship flourish into? Three years and it's at the same level where it started. If you think it had any other outcome in even next ten years, you're just kidding yourself. Even twenty years down the line, it would've been in the same spot it's in today.
So it was never given the chance it should have been. Glad you agree.
==========
Bonus round:
Instead of replying to all of that, lemme ask you this. Let's say you're Superman. You're going around saving people, saving the world, every second woman you meet wants you to sign her **** and would probably **** you, given the chance.
Why be with Lois? Serious question.
Originally posted by NewjakThat version of the Squadron Supreme had very distinctive costumes and was from J.M.S' Supreme Power universe. Not sure about it, but that probably was them resurrected by God Emperor Doom into Battleworld after they had been killed during Time Runs Out.
Okay cool thanks ODG.So I take it that was just another group that looked like them.
We'll just have to wait and see how Secret Wars plays out.
EDIT: Also, you're right. They appeared in that [i]Ultimate Power crossover too.[/i]
We'll have to wait until the series ends likely to figure out exactly what is and what isn't canon to preexisting characters. Besides Doom/Strange/Molecule Man and the Cabal
It's safe to assume right now every character is about the same level but we're not sure if they are the same. Pretty much just enjoy the show.
Plus a lot of characters are meant to be dead as well but that doesn't seem to be an issue here.
Originally posted by ODGCool I thought the costumes looked familiar.
That version of the Squadron Supreme had very distinctive costumes and was from J.M.S' Supreme Power universe. Not sure about it, but that probably was them resurrected by God Emperor Doom into Battleworld after they had been killed during Time Runs Out.We'll just have to wait and see how Secret Wars plays out.
EDIT: Also, you're right. They appeared in that [i]Ultimate Power crossover too.[/i]
Originally posted by -Pr-Because those were just ideas or opinion of the writer. Those didn't come to fruition.
how does that argument carry any weight whatsoever? Claremont wanted Sinister to be a twelve year old boy. Stan Lee once said that Cyclops was the most powerful of the original X-Men.
Seriously? Did you forget the comics written by them?Their intent is supposed to be an argument how?
Who said she needs to be with him? Her role is the love interest, wonder woman isn't a love interest.it's fundamental that she was a love interest, not that she was with him. how many years was it before they got together? We both know the answer to that one.
Justice League only did for a few issues.JL did. SM/WW did. Badly in the latter, but still.
It had its own ****ing title. What more do you want?Assuming that's true, it just proves my point even moreso. I don't wholly agree, but the coupling not being given a chance was exactly my point in the first place, so thanks for that.
No, she didn't. And it's not the character's fault that Lobdell is a hack.She appeared in plenty; probably more than Diana, if not just as many. I never said anything about removing her from the franchise either. I just don't like them hurting the Superman character by doing what they did to him.
Two writers one of which was intentionally trying to write her as a gold digger and is one of the worst writers ever? Yeah, that's some great evidence. Not to mention Veheiden didn't write her badly. Busiek, Robinson etc write her well.lol, no. You don't get to pull that card with me. She was being written badly well in to the reboot, and if you want the last example of her being badly written when they were together? Verheiden's run on Superman around IC didn't paint her too well. Then there was Austen. Hell, the only writer that, imo, wrote her any way tolerable was the guy you dislike so much: Johns.
So it was never given the chance it should have been. Glad you agree.No, it was given more chances than it deserved. It's not the writer's fault that the relationship is beyond boring.
Why does Superman does all the things he does? It's all fiction.==========
Bonus round:
Instead of replying to all of that, lemme ask you this. Let's say you're Superman. You're going around saving people, saving the world, every second woman you meet wants you to sign her **** and would probably **** you, given the chance.
Why be with Lois? Serious question.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Because those were just ideas or opinion of the writer. Those didn't come to fruition. Seriously? Did you forget the comics written by them? Who said she needs to be with him? Her role is the love interest, wonder woman isn't a love interest. Justice League only did for a few issues. It had its own ****ing title. What more do you want? No, she didn't. And it's not the character's fault that Lobdell is a hack. Two writers one of which was intentionally trying to write her as a gold digger and is one of the worst writers ever? Yeah, that's some great evidence. Not to mention Veheiden didn't write her badly. Busiek, Robinson etc write her well.No, it was given more chances than it deserved. It's not the writer's fault that the relationship is beyond boring. Why does Superman does all the things he does? It's all fiction.
It's like you're just arguing for argument's sake now. 😐
"It's just fiction" isn't an excuse when you're trying to write characters that people can relate to.
Originally posted by JayDaDon
The WW/SM could have done a lot of different things with imaginative writers. If all the comics going into their relationship are shit, sorry, I still blame the writers. 😬
I'd blame the editors, personally. You should realize that getting Diana and Clark together is making WW play second fiddle to Superman. The goal of building Diana as the most important female character in comicdom shoots down the idea of her being a supporting character from the get to go. This reasoning is more than solid, it just was never happening.
I find she's not terribly compatible with Kal because she is an outsider and Superman's relationships should engage him with the world, nor making him overly alien.
