Iceman vs. ? - seriously!!!

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
😂
I don't know if it would work on Thanos or not, but people don't seem to understand how Iceman's powers work. When he freezes something or someone be it from the outside with ice beams or from the inside, he doesn't just turn them into popsicles. The idea is that he stops any sort of kinetic energy in that area. Particles no longer move.

Particles would still move. It's just that most particles move with significantly less energy. 😉

Which is really weird if you think about it. Bobby's apparently the exception to the laws of thermodynamics.

Originally posted by Melnorme
Particles would still move. It's just that most particles move with significantly less energy. 😉

Which is really weird if you think about it. Bobby's apparently the exception to the laws of thermodynamics.

Since humans can make it as close as the billionth part of a degree to absolute zero, i'm assuming Bobby can do even better than that. Sure, it's not complete stop, but hell......for all means, it can be considered that.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Since humans can make it as close as the billionth part of a degree to absolute zero, i'm assuming Bobby can do even better than that. Sure, it's not complete stop, but hell......for all means, it can be considered that.

That's a hell of an assumption. 🙄

ive always thought that bobby had the power to take the temperature of things down to absolute zero

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ive always thought that bobby had the power to take the temperature of things down to absolute zero

Nothing does. It might just be impossible.

But even getting within a few degrees is pretty impressive.

If a telekinetic would stop the motion of all particles inside a room, would it be absolute zero?

yea it wud be

Flash...

Flash, i agree would take most of the battles....but knowledge is power...and if Flash doesnt know about mouisture inversion, Iceman wins a few....

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Flash, i agree would take most of the battles....but knowledge is power...and if Flash doesnt know about mouisture inversion, Iceman wins a few....

See now i'm not sure about Bobby winning vs. Flash at all.
Flash could break Iceman a few times. He would notice that he keeps reforming, and then realize he can't be beaten physically. So he could steal Iceman's speed, rendering him motionless.
Bobby could potentially beat Flash by flashfreeze, BUT that would assume that his powers work like Blink's.

What do i mean by that?
Blink thinks of someone somewhere and can port anything in or out of that person. She can think of a place somewhere and port someone there. She doesn't have to know where the place is or ever been to it, etc.
If Colossus is riding the bycicle and Blink decides to port a ton of jelly into him, she doesn't port into his location, she ports directly into her body. He can be running or cycling at 100 mph for all she cares, since she's not using location to port. She's using her mind like a laser pin-pointing system.

If Iceman can use his powers the same way, aka not freezing the AREA a foe is in, but rather the foe in himself, he could beat Flash. If not, he can't.
Because if Flash is running and Iceman's power freezes an area, he won't be caught in it.

In other words, if when Bobby uses his powers he thinks:
"Freeze where Flash is" he'll never get Wally.
If he thinks:
"Freeze Flash no matter the location" then he can freeze Wally.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
See now i'm not sure about Bobby winning vs. Flash at all.
Flash could break Iceman a few times. He would notice that he keeps reforming, and then realize he can't be beaten physically. So he could steal Iceman's speed, rendering him motionless.
Bobby could potentially beat Flash by flashfreeze, BUT that would assume that his powers work like Blink's.

What do i mean by that?
Blink thinks of someone somewhere and can port anything in or out of that person. She can think of a place somewhere and port someone there. She doesn't have to know where the place is or ever been to it, etc.
If Colossus is riding the bycicle and Blink decides to port a ton of jelly into him, she doesn't port into his location, she ports directly into her body. He can be running or cycling at 100 mph for all she cares, since she's not using location to port. She's using her mind like a laser pin-pointing system.

If Iceman can use his powers the same way, aka not freezing the AREA a foe is in, but rather the foe in himself, he could beat Flash. If not, he can't.
Because if Flash is running and Iceman's power freezes an area, he won't be caught in it.

In other words, if when Bobby uses his powers he thinks:
"Freeze where Flash is" he'll never get Wally.
If he thinks:
"Freeze Flash no matter the location" then he can freeze Wally.

Didnt you see the Iceman scans before? Iceman CAN freeze the person inside and not the area. Plus if Flash were to shatter Bobby, he wouldnt reform right away. Iceman can still use his powers even while bodyless/shattered. Hed gather moisture from within Wallys body reforming himself.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Didnt you see the Iceman scans before? Iceman CAN freeze the person inside and not the area. Plus if Flash were to shatter Bobby, he wouldnt reform right away. Iceman can still use his powers even while bodyless/shattered. Hed gather moisture from within Wallys body reforming himself.

No proof of that.
What's OBVIOUS isn't that he freezes the person and not the area. What's obvious is that he freezes from the inside to the outside. That doesn't however mean he's attacking the person and not the area.

If he does attack the person and not the area (i'll concede if it can be proved via scans), he can beat Flash in the way you described.

If he attacks an area and not the person, even if it's from the inside to the outside, he won't be beating flash if flash is running.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
No proof of that.
What's OBVIOUS isn't that he freezes the person and not the area. What's obvious is that he freezes from the inside to the outside. That doesn't however mean he's attacking the person and not the area.

If he does attack the person and not the area (i'll concede if it can be proved via scans), he can beat Flash in the way you described.

If he attacks an area and not the person, even if it's from the inside to the outside, he won't be beating flash if flash is running.

No proof of what? There was proof.

His body was shattered, with nothing but a head left and he reformed by taking all the moisture from the persons body from within, thus reforming himself.

If Flash is running, Bobby would have to get hit in order to execute some of his moves. If he tries a IMP, that gives Iceman plenty of time of prepare something for when Flash gets there to throw him off.

Originally posted by jrodslam
No proof of what? There was proof.

His body was shattered, with nothing but a head left and he reformed by taking all the moisture from the persons body from within, thus reforming himself.

If Flash is running, Bobby would have to get hit in order to execute some of his moves. If he tries a IMP, that gives Iceman plenty of time of prepare something for when Flash gets there to throw him off.

No proof of him attacking the person and not the area the person is residing in.

And yeah, i'm completely aware of his reforming abilities, though i don't remember the "only his head remained" thing you mentioned. If it's from x-men forever, it was his entire upper side that was left intact, but that doesn't matter.

Also, even if he was shown to take a person's moisture to reform himself, that STILL doesn't prove that he's attacking a person and not the area the person is in.

If Flash tries an IMP, Bobby gets broken. If he can attack the person and not the area, he can defeat Flash even since before he's reformed. But i haven't seen any proof that he does that.
If not, it's a stalemate until Flash realizes that the only way to stop an "elemental golem" character like Iceman is to take their speed, and then he wins.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
No proof of him attacking the person and not the area the person is residing in.

And yeah, i'm completely aware of his reforming abilities, though i don't remember the "only his head remained" thing you mentioned. If it's from x-men forever, it was his entire upper side that was left intact, but that doesn't matter.

Also, even if he was shown to take a person's moisture to reform himself, that STILL doesn't prove that he's attacking a person and not the area the person is in.

If Flash tries an IMP, Bobby gets broken. If he can attack the person and not the area, he can defeat Flash even since before he's reformed. But i haven't seen any proof that he does that.
If not, it's a stalemate until Flash realizes that the only way to stop an "elemental golem" character like Iceman is to take their speed, and then he wins.

Ahh. Its clear that were talking about different events here. Sorry about that. I though you saw the one i was referring to. Ill try to look for the scan for you.

You have to remember that Flash takes a few seconds to deliver a IMP. Bobby can do alot with his surroundings in that time. Hopefully causing Wally to lose his balance.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Very awesome. Who was that chick btw?

However, that STILL doesn't prove he attacks the person. She was sitting in one spot, and then the moisture was taken from her. The same effect would've occurred if he drained the moisture from the area she was in, and therfore the moisture in HER (as a consequence of her being the spot he was draining the moisture from).

See where i'm going with this?

(btw: i'm loving this discussion. But your evil afro haircut ways will not win this day 😈 )

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Very awesome. Who was that chick btw?

However, that STILL doesn't prove he attacks the person. She was sitting in one spot, and then the moisture was taken from her. The same effect would've occurred if he drained the moisture from the area she was in, and therfore the moisture in HER (as a consequence of her being the spot he was draining the moisture from).

See where i'm going with this?

(btw: i'm loving this discussion. But your evil afro haircut ways will not win this day 😈 )

Beats the hell outta me who she is.

BUT it does indeed prove he attacks her. Notice how shes dead and he says " I found my water elsewhere. I think ill put it to better use than SHE did."

Meaning he took all the water that was inside her and reformed himself. Iceman can control where he gets him water from obviously. She had two of his allies in her grasp and they werent affected. It had nothing to do with where she was standing, because the kids were in the same area she was. He got it directly from her and thats very clear.

Originally posted by jrodslam
You have to remember that Flash takes a few seconds to deliver a IMP.

Uh, that's patently not true. The entire fight with Zum- birth-story of the IMP, so coined- took place in less than a second. Later instances of throwing the IMP, Flash says he can throw a thousand in a blink WHILE at super-speed.

What Dark Urizen is asking is whether Bobby can target something he can't perceive but can conceive. Your scan does not demonstrate that since his target is clearly perceptable.

Personally, I'm convinced he can't, which is why he was surprised by the stealthed/piloted Sentinel in the recent issue of X-Men. It's not like he "tracked the pilot's moisture" to know there was someone hidden there... instead, he was just as surprised as everyone else.

That means if Flash stays beyond Iceman's perception, he should be untargetable.

Originally posted by Demas
Uh, that's patently not true. The entire fight with Zum- birth-story of the IMP, so coined- took place in less than a second. Later instances of throwing the IMP, Flash says he can throw a thousand in a blink WHILE at super-speed.

What Dark Urizen is asking is whether Bobby can target something he can't perceive but can conceive. Your scan does not demonstrate that since his target is clearly perceptable.

Personally, I'm convinced he can't, which is why he was surprised by the stealthed/piloted Sentinel in the recent issue of X-Men. It's not like he "tracked the pilot's moisture" to know there was someone hidden there... instead, he was just as surprised as everyone else.

That means if Flash stays beyond Iceman's perception, he should be untargetable.

Well in the fight with Zum it appeared to have taken place in less than a second and he wasnt even going light speed at the time. Yet more times than not, it takes him several seconds to do so.

Secondly, in current issues of X-Men, Bobby isnt in complete control of his powers. Also he along with the others did know of the cloaked being that was in the area. Also, the pilot is inside the Sentinel which most likely hides and protects the being from giving off heat signatures. Iceman wouldnt be able to detect a human in it because its over 20ft high for one and his powers are out of control for two. So that point is nulled.

Like ive stated before, i have no doubts that Flash can hit Bobby and shatter him. Thats what most likely will happen. However, Flash will be percieved after that hit and thats where he can get his damage in to take down Flash.