Bush on Wire-tapping:

Originally posted by KidRock
If you call human rights just letting terrorists in our front door and greeting them with lots of money human rights then..shit yeah take mine away.

Vote liberal next election and it will be the last we ever have..at least the last free one until we have a Saddam Hussein like run country.

AAHAHAHAHA

Bush Sr. gave $6 billion to terrorist organizations, including al-quaeda between 1989 and 1992. and he also gave them military training! who greeted terrorists with lots of money then? it wasnt liberals, thats for damn sure.

last free election? we have an army to protect our country, not invade other ones for no damn reason. no wait, there was a reason, weapons of mass destruction right? oops, THERE ARE NONE

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have gone over board. I didn’t say any of that and it isn’t on topic.

To wire tap a few people who are calling other countries, has nothing to do with the garbage you have just spewed forth.

This is a small price to pay to keep this country free.

hahaha, a few people. over 500 people were tapped at any given time, over the course of years, meaning that there can be thousands of illegal wire-taps.

Here's the main issues.

There were no warrants on these wiretaps. Read the Constitution; if you are going to have a wiretap or any other type of search (physical or electronic) on US citizens, you need a warrant.

FISA, the secret court that gives out authorization for warrants on such issues, was issuing five warrants a day for wiretapping throughout the period that Bush did the illegal wiretapping. Meanwhile, FISA rejected four claims for warrants. Not four a day - four total.

Basically, what the Bush administration is saying, is that they were trying to spy on so many people that FISA couldn't keep up. Or maybe they were just spying on people that had nothing to do with terrorism (like the four groups protesting the military's don't ask don't tell policy).

Before you say, "Hey, they had information that couldn't wait on a court!" that's why FISA has a provision where they could retroactively request a warrant up to 72 hours later.

Since these wiretaps are without warrants, that means that the evidence is not admissible in court. Therefore, if they actually found evidence of a terrorist act, they could not try the person in court - they would have no admissible evidence. Of course, they would just then illegally hold them in a secret Eastern European prison, so that point is moot I guess.

And the President does not have nor ever has had these powers - even during war time. Just being in a war does not make the President a King.

I'll finish up with this quote from John W Dean:

There can be no serious question that warrantless wiretapping, in violation of the law, is impeachable. After all, Nixon was charged in Article II of his bill of impeachment with illegal wiretapping for what he, too, claimed were national security reasons.

i hope he gets impeached for this crap.

nice mc escher sig by the way.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
i hope he gets impeached for this crap.

nice mc escher sig by the way.

thanks

Originally posted by Fire
I don't see the problem with it. As PVS said if you have nothing to hide there is no problem.

Are you being ironic, or did you miss PVS' irony? I can't decide...

'Let’s get it straight, you actually believe that the government has the right to spy at will. You really think there’s nothing wrong with listening in on domestic phone conversations or intercepting personal e-mail or cell calls. You really have no qualms about bypassing the courts and warrants to spy on Americans who might have expressed opposition to the invasion of a militarily castrated nation? You bought into the idea that secret government spying will keep Americans safe. And you have no problem with spying on grass roots peace organizations whose members walk around with signs demanding a safer and friendlier world?'

All right then, if spying is the way to go, why not snoop in the right places?

Do secret societies and organizations with great power and hidden agendas make you at all nervous? How do you feel about covert private groups that wield enormous power, if not direct control, over your own political system and on governments around the world? If you don’t believe they really exist, how about using your super spy technology to see if you’re right, or if – just if – you’re absolutely and frighteningly wrong.

Heck, if you’re going to spy, why not go after the bad guys.

Here’s an idea: a new Cabinet Department: the DDGI – the Department of Domestic Good Intentions. Let’s set up a branch of government to investigate – spy on, if you will – the secret organizations whose agendas are never allowed to be exposed, and whose meetings are held behind closed doors with no media coverage whatsoever. The DDGI could be charged with discovering whether these groups secretly formulate policies or illegally usurp powers constitutionally reserved for elected representatives of the people.

If you don’t think that’s happening, why not be certain? These folks are far more of a threat than the people being spied on right now. Go for it.

Face it – you walk around claiming that 9/11 changed everything! You’re prepared to tread on some very precious constitutional guarantees so that the nation can be safe. Okay, let’s play along with that for the moment. If you buy into the spying game, answer this: Should secret organizations be exempt from the changes you say were brought on by 9/11? To follow your line of thinking, let’s go one step further: What if Al Qaeda is smart enough to figure that out? What Al Qaeda realizes that peace organizations are under the watchful eyes of our government yet secret societies are not? What if they are using the cover of organizations such the Skull & Bones organization to plan the next 9/11?

What nonsense, right? But are you absolutely sure? Do you have a single clue about the activities of Skull & Bones and other secret societies? They may very well be doing things that are much more dangerous than any terrorist organization on your watch list. Are you ready to find out what that might be? You should be.

All right, then…get that Department set up to do some productive spying. First move is to check out all the organizations that have operated in complete secrecy so we can all rest assured they are not fronts for terror organizations. In fact, you never know what might be uncovered; they might be doing things that are far worse. You can start with a thorough surveillance of Skull & Bones. Then you can mosey on down and spy on the lodges of the Freemasons. After that you can install hidden cameras and microphones at the next meeting of the Bilderberg group. And let’s not stop there...let’s continue on and take a peek behind the insanity that takes place at BOHEMIAN GROVE!