Talents
Darth Vader is a brilliant strategist and one of the greatest pilots in the galaxy. Vader still possesses his former persona's amazing engineering skills, having overseen the design of the TIE/Advanced fighter and the construction of the second Death Star. His talent with the lightsaber is legendary. All of these skills, however, are secondary to his incredible mastery of the Force. He is born with the greatest known midi-chlorian count (a measure of Force-aptitude) in the galaxy, surpassing that of both Yoda and the Emperor. However, Lucas states that his injuries on Mustafar cost Vader much of his Force potential. Lucas claims that, as a masked and suited Darth Vader, Anakin has roughly 80% of the power of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar, he would have been about twice as powerful. Vader's lack of physical hands is the direct reason he cannot create Force lightning, as Dooku and Palpatine could. [6]
In The Empire Strikes Back, Vader was able to block Han Solo's blaster bolts with his hand. One explanation is that Vader used the Force, while an Expanded Universe novel states that Vader's right glove was indestructible.
Vader also has great physical strength, which he demonstrates in his first and last appearances in the original trilogy: lifting a Rebel captain by the throat with one hand in A New Hope, and picking up the Emperor and hurling him to his death in Return of the Jedi. The Expanded Universe has shown him punching through the skull of savage predators and bludgeoning opposing Jedi onto their knees with one blow.
In battle, Darth Vader has a very precise and powerful fighting style. Lacking the mobility and ease he once had, his bionic suit gives him sheer strength. Because of his great strength, his blows have great power and unexpected speed, even when using only one arm to fight. He is precise and calm when fighting, rarely using acrobatics. He strikes to kill and uses psychology and his appearance to intimidate his foes. When striking with both hands on the grip of his lightsaber, he is able to pound his enemies with an onslaught of strong but somewhat slow strikes. This fighting style contrasts with Anakin's style before his disfigurement, which utilized more speed and acrobatics. This has become the general explanation for the less-developed saber skills in the original trilogy as compared to the prequel trilogy. Luke's less developed saber skills would obviously be a result of his lack of training. While most padawans are trained from early ages for at least a good 15 years, Luke started very late. However, the greatest explanation for the slower combat of the original trilogy is the lack of "film magic" in the 70's, considering Obi-Wan also fought slowly in A New Hope at age 57 despite Count Dooku fighting with intense speed in the prequels at age 80+. While this technical explanation is almost certainly the reason for Obi-Wan's slow fighting in A New Hope, a possible explanation could be that he was doing so on purpose. He may have been aware either that he was no match for Vader, or that Luke's destiny was tied to facing (and redeeming) him. As seen in Revenge of the Sith, not even Yoda is able to defeat Palpatine, so Obi-Wan may have recognized that Vader/Anakin is the only one strong enough (because he is The Chosen One) to kill Palpatine. Palpatine/Darth Sidious says as much in comments to Yoda, "Darth Vader shall become more powerful than either of us." So Obi-Wan is merely distracting Vader and the Imperial forces to allow Luke and the others to escape, essentially sacrificing himself to become a Force spirit to further counsel Luke.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader
Look it up. It says twice as powerful than what he was with his suit... That's 160% compared to the Emperor. He would have been stronger.
Originally posted by LightsnakeSidious > Revan b/c (a) Revan (as lightside) ran away when some more Sith Lords (Nihilus and Sion) show up and doesn't even come back, leaving the Jedi Order tattered and torn, and a mess for the Exile to clean up.
When is it ever even hinted Revan could stand up to Sidious, though? It's not fair to say 'no EU' because Revan is inherently EU. Just because movie Sidious doesn't use such powers doesn't mean he can't....Malak doesn't randomly fry Pedestrians but we know he can
LS, wiki articles don't work as proof.
Revan, "Thought by many to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time"
Nope, can't use that as proof.
1. And we know very little of Nihilius regardless. KAtarr remained a tiny colony world anyways.
That had thousands of Jedi on it and a wide-spread species for force users. Not exactly sparcely poplulated. He also controlled several hundred people at all times. Not drained, controlled.
2. Sidious only had destiny on his side, 1 and 2: he was caught completely off guard as he was focused on making Luke suffer. the ROTJ novelization covers this point. And don't give me that Nadd was stronger as a spirit, Nadd was a pathetic weakling as a spirit, he even admitted he was a weakling compared to a Sith. The only things he did was take Ommin's soul-when Ommin was dead, lure Kun to the Dark Side-not a difficult task- then totally screw up and get himself killed. Don't try to claim Nadd was stronger than a Sith because he himself says he wouldn't stand a chance against the Sith. It's worth noting that Ludo Kressh couldn't stop a kamikaze ship and died screaming and pleading for Naga to call it off. Want to hear Exar Kun's numerous screw ups? Or Ulic-Qel Droma's?
Tell me Exar's mess ups, and Ulic's.
He should have double focused his attention. It's called multitasking, anyone can do it.
Look at how Sidious failed even as a person, he couldn't even get Luke to join the darkside.
3. They didn't 'Tell' him what to do, they reached into the Dark Side and told him of Anakin Solo who he didn't even know EXISTED to that point.
He did go there begging for help though.
4. Yes, Yoda had just arrived and was focused on getting to Dooku. And stop using what they 'don't do' in the movies because what they do in EU explains a lot of their power, not to mention quotes that explicitly call them the strongest ever. Like I said, Sidious was overconfident and to reach out and get every last one would take time and effort he didn't have
No, Yoda commanded forces for nearly half an hour before ever going to fight Dooku. Why didn't he do much damage to the Droids during that time?
What quotes call them the strongest ever?
Sidious doesn't need to take time, he only needs to take 20 or 30, which would be rather easy for him if he is even close to as strong as you say.
5. Jerec and Desann were never trained at Palpatine's beck and call, I'm talking about his Dark Side elite
No, but that wasn't what I was saying. They also imbued people in the force, yet they suck. Sidious doing that isn't an indication of a lot of power.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
When is it ever even hinted Revan could stand up to Sidious, though? It's not fair to say 'no EU' because Revan is inherently EU. Just because movie Sidious doesn't use such powers doesn't mean he can't....Malak doesn't randomly fry Pedestrians but we know he can
Malak randomly fries entire planets.
Revan has studied on Malachor V and has Tulak Hord's Holocron. Tulak was remarked as the best lightsaber duelist of all time. Along with being thought to be the Chosen One because of his great potential and being the most powerful person alive during the KOTOR times. You aren't giving Revan the credit he deserves.
The Mandalorians expected Master Kavar to lead the battle instead of him. Revan proved to be not only one of the most powerful Jedi in history, but also a master tactician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revan
I would Like an apoligy if you would for saying Revan is no good
Wiki articles list their sources to be checked and are generally quite valid.
1. Palpatine controlled a large group of people as well. Regardless, Nihilius had become more than human
2. Don't give me that multitasking thing...have YOU ever focused hate and rage into a physical state to kill someone while you believe someone by you is your man through and through? And Luke refusing is NOT Sidious's failing, it's Luke's strength. Luke was that close to letting go....and for Ulic and Exar, please come on IM, I'll list them all in vivid detail.
3. His body was dying. He couldn't use the force. He was going insane and his mind was decaying....this is worse than Naga Sadow begging for his life, Exar Kun begging for his life and wailing like an infant when his final death came, among others?
4. Yoda was focusing on RESCUING people...show me the Jedi master who can blow all those bolts with his saber....This was explained in the EP. 2 novelization. Yoda was saving his energy for Dooku as the droids were superfluous compared to Tyranus. And the quotes that call them the strongest ever...the Dark Side sourcebook, the ROTS novelization, Dark Rendevous and a few others. Yoda is described as the strongest and greatest foe the dark side of the force ever had, where Sidious is described as the mightiest and greatest foe the darkness ever produced.
5. Jerec and Desann were small timers trying to BECOME more powerful. When did Jerec ever 'imbue' anyone? Sidious made two small timers into powehouses with a flick of a finger
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Malak randomly fries entire planets.Revan has studied on Malachor V and has Tulak Hord's Holocron. Tulak was remarked as the best lightsaber duelist of all time. Along with being thought to be the Chosen One because of his great potential and being the most powerful person alive during the KOTOR times. You aren't giving Revan the credit he deserves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revan
The Mandalorians expected Master Kavar to lead the battle instead of him. Revan proved to be not only one of the most powerful Jedi in history, but also a master tactician. He was willing to sacrifice entire planets so as to make the most important ones impenetrable. And despite taking massive casualties (sometimes as many as ten Republic soldiers for every Mandalorian), Revan was consistently able to outmaneuver and overwhelm the enemy both in space and on the ground.
Originally posted by Lord Rikyl
As that guy Escape was saying before... Lightsnake has the best proof. He has quotes and what not. I haven't seen anyone best that and come out with a quote saying "EXAR KUN WAS MOST POWERFUL!" or>>> "NAGA SADOW COULD HAVE KILLED SIDIOUS."
I haven't seen a quote to the contrary.