Sidious - The Debate

Started by Lightsnake32 pages

Provide quote or scan, Glentract. You seem to be very fond of saying that

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's fine, but it's only a personal belief. Officially speaking, GL has the floor, and as far as I am concerned these boards will go with the offiical line as far as resolving questions like this. Your personal opinions are your own to keep.

But surely you are allowed to express these opinions and appeal to other peoples for their input and opinion. Yes the non-canon argument will always be there, but most people do not respect GL's opinion because they do not see SW from his perspective, but from a fan who enjoys all media in which Star Wars is represented.

I realise there is little to no point in debating this and yes, you are correct Ush, this is merely a personal belief and you have every right to keep your stance, but there are so many contradictions and fallacy's in SW that GL's word is not a reasonable or fair determiner of debates (yes it works and yes, it should still be kept) but it is not fair.

Sorry everyone for dragging this off-topic, but lets face it, this thread was shoot to bits as soon as Yoda was mentioned...

It may not be fair, but there it is. And there's still ample evidence. In fact, why's the EU not blamed for screwing up GL's story?

I am exceptionally happy for people to post their beliefs, but this was specificaly a debating thread about the official facts, you see.

Another sock banned, btw. Geez, people, you will be spotted, you know.

Yes, Ushgarak we have stuff to add to this thread. Or would you rather have us debate this in several other threads?

Do you actually have stuff to add, or is it just the same things you have already said a dozen times stated in a different way? That's what it looks like.

Yes, we are currently debating the matter of whether or not Sadow moved the star by himself, or used his ship.

Holy geez, how peripheral to the actual topic can we get?

Very well, carry on for now, but I am keeping a close watch here.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It may not be fair, but there it is. And there's still ample evidence. In fact, why's the EU not blamed for screwing up GL's story?

Partly it has contradicted a lot of what GL has done, but also GL has contradicted EU in return, of course he is the creator so he has every right, but it does strangely, yet genuinely annoy me how he swathes about the SW Universe, cutting out the bits that do not fit with his new films.

Of course to the ordinary person, they will not have read much if any EU material, hell they might of played an SW game or two, but they havnt read the Jedi vs. Sith graphic novels etc., so they are unnaffected but contradictions. Yet as a fan, and disliking the PT as I do, I tend to grant more prominence to ancient Jedi era EU, and I do dislike the way GL seems to shove around EU. Yet i am probably a minority.

Btw can we organise a siege of Skywalker Ranch just for the hell of it?

p.s. This will probably be my last post so sorry Ush for going off-topic again.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No. sorry, I totally reject this logic, The creator's intention is vital, all the more so because what is seen and protrayed in these formats is clearly open to interpretation, therefore we need the source of it all to check what the truth behind what we see is.

The point is that nobody - especially not Lucas - will come and clear all the points. And personally I hate it when some artist contradicts his own work with statements.


If we accept that certain formats- like the CW cartoon- sometimes portray stuff that is not so due to stylisitc reasons, then this applies to ALL EU formats- and includes anything we yhaev ever seen any of the Sith Lords do; the Dragonball Z syndrome, as Overlord referred to it as. So all that stuff being produced as evidence of what they did might be no more than stylisitc excess. The intention of the authort puts it all into context.

Essentially Ush - in this case everything happening outside the heads of the authors / moviemakers (in this case Anderson and Lucas) can be argued unless the artist responsible gives a comment on a certain topic. I don't think it's reasonable to argue like that, especially not considering the VS board.


And your bit about GL approving these things and making changes if he wanted... simply displays total ignorance about the way GL works with these things, and how the EU is left to run. GL wouldn't think twice about the EU making all sorts of assumptions about what the Sith could do beore and then later trample all over them or make it plain that none of this is possible. ALL EU operates on the possibility of contradiction from the main canon sources.

The point is that the EU is valid as long as it doesn't contradict any higher level of canon. I've actually never seen or heared something in the movies that said nobody can't be more powerful than the PT Jedi or Sidious as a Sith Lord.
And the more important point is that Lucas sees the EU happening in a "parallel universe" which means even if Lucas would say that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever that's only true for his "movie universe" and not for the EU section.


I will remind people that these boards have a policy about this sort of thing, and opinions will not override GL's stated facts. Sorry, but your attempts to try and ignore the logic and the primacy of fact creators have over their own creations are those of a fool. Creators have 100% final line authority, with no contest. What we see or read must fit that, including the possibility oif error in the material we see. As I have said, the EU has been in error many times, from Splinter onwards.

I might have read something wrong but isn't it said that the EU basically happens in a "different universe" or in a "parallel dimension" (not the same the movies happen in) ? Isn't it completely useless then to assume that Person X in the movies has the same powers as Person X in the EU or could even dream of having them. Doesn't that pretty much destroy Lightsnake's entire point of "There is no difference between ROTS Sidious and DE Sidious" in terms of force power ? And isn't the discussion if the movie Sidious is more powerful than Sith Lords only existing in the EU quite useless then since they happen to exist in a "parallel dimension" ?

Operating with that kind of canon policy the only other Sith Sidious should be compared to are Maul, Dooku and Vader and we know that he's more powerful than them.

Page 19 of the Essential Chronology:

"Crado teamed up Aleema to execute a military strike using Naga Sadow's Sith flagshi[ Armed with the vessel's star-destroying weapon they inended to destroy the Cron cluster's suns."

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Page 19 of the Essential Chronology:

"Crado teamed up Aleema to execute a military strike using Naga Sadow's Sith flagshi[ Armed with the vessel's star-destroying weapon they inended to destroy the Cron cluster's suns."

This "star destroying weapon" must be nice since it doesn't have any visible effect, seems to work because of a hand movement of it's user and the greatest thing is that you can rip the core of a star of and throw it at other people.

Quite the uberweapon considering the fact that it was built 5,000 years before the first Death Star...

If they have lightsabers that activate via the Force and a man can use the force to help pilot a Star Ship....considering we DO see pilots in Sadow's ship....guess you mised the big electric beam it fires

Is that so?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
If they have lightsabers that activate via the Force and a man can use the force to help pilot a Star Ship....considering we DO see pilots in Sadow's ship....guess you mised the big electric beam it fires

The beam is just what it focused after Sadow provided the actual power.

It's so. In both shots, we see electricity flying from the ship to the star

Yeah, right. Guess you missed the part about 'star destroying weapon'
Points for me...especially considering they're firing from what looks like a blaster.

And here we are: "Aleema has used the Sith Power in Naga Sadow's Ancient Ship etc etc."
Aleema: Sadow's weaponry is so powerful...I can't wait to use it..."
Kun: "This Ship has the power to destroy stars...Naga Sadow used the power in this ship etc etc."

Yet we see him seemingly doing all the work on his own...

How much "electrical" power you think does that ship have to generate in order to rip the core of a star off, carry it through the galaxy and then throw it at other people, eh ?

And why did other people trying to use the "technological" power of that ship die in the process if it has nothing to do with the personal power of the user ?

have you read the comic at all?

Here's another quote:
Naga: I can still make use of the power this ship has left! Set a course for the Denarii!

Al we EVER see is him standing over the control center, which is glowing