Originally posted by KingD19
Gonna disagree with you on both points there. If Hulk was in control of himself(and he usually is these days), or Wolverine or Punisher were in that same position. They'd have left. Finding Hope and stopping the Earth from being eaten by a cosmic fire bird takes precedent over like Sam said, trying to stop someone who has Unstoppable in his name. They can always finish the fight later. It's a comic, any reason to start up a fight again will do.And Colossus allowing himself to get KO'd was the exact opposite. It took a supreme amount of inner strength and will power to override the almost total influence of a Demon God who was willing him to destroy the most important support structure for Utopia. If he'd beaten Rulk or gone so far as to kill him, he would have snapped that support beam like a twig and potentially killed everyone on that island.
And I disagree with you. Running from any kind of fight is out of character for any of those alpha male characters. The world will wait. If I saw them do anything other than that, I would totally call it out of character. Especially these days when most non mutant heroes is some type of Avenger. There is no shortage in manpower looking for Hope. They even have enough heroes to occupy Wolverine's school.
As for Colossus, I understand why he did it. But there was no reason the fight could not have moved somewhere else. Still, It was Colossus duty to job for Rulk and he maintaines his status as bottom brick until he can get another fight with a real contender.
I also disagree that AVX vs are primarily for the Hope story. That is wrong. AVX itself is for that story. Vs was created for one on one battles. But it is starting to become clear that they will use the "Hope is not here" for giving characters an out. That's a shame.
The world can wait all it wants; the Phoenix won't. It's evidently clear that it's getting really close, really fast. And no matter how macho and alpha they are; they're smart enough to realize that they can't be macho and alpha if they and everything else is dead and gone. And yes they've got a shitload of Avengers, but I know I'd give up on a hopeless fight if it meant we were that much closer to finding the one person who could save us from planetary destruction.
And there's no reason from an outside standpoint that the fight couldn't have moved. But in the comic, Colossus beat Rulk to the pillar, and whether it was by subconscious prodding by Cytorrak, strategic placement by Rulk, or just bad luck, they ended up there. Colossus and the demon took note. If he'd kept fighting, he wouldn't have wanted to leave. He would have wanted to, and would have destroyed the pillar.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
I took it as the writer was making it clear that Colossus would have won had the fight continued, mainly due to Spidey's comments as he was swinging away.
You are right. It was clear Colossus had the upper hand. It just wasn't the beat down that some people wanted. For me, I would have prefered he didn't fight Spiderman. I think the mismatch is so painfully obvious. Plus the bricks should be fighting bricks.
Originally posted by KingD19
The world can wait all it wants; the Phoenix won't. It's evidently clear that it's getting really close, really fast. And no matter how macho and alpha they are; they're smart enough to realize that they can't be macho and alpha if they and everything else is dead and gone. And yes they've got a shitload of Avengers, but I know I'd give up on a hopeless fight if it meant we were that much closer to finding the one person who could save us from planetary destruction.And there's no reason from an outside standpoint that the fight couldn't have moved. But in the comic, Colossus beat Rulk to the pillar, and whether it was by subconscious prodding by Cytorrak, strategic placement by Rulk, or just bad luck, they ended up there. Colossus and the demon took note. If he'd kept fighting, he wouldn't have wanted to leave. He would have wanted to, and would have destroyed the pillar.
Well there are pleanty of vs coming up. We'll see how many heroes will opt to kick butt first and walk away, or turn and run off the moment they realize Hope is not around.
Originally posted by JDUP01Actually yes. Every character you mentioned would've left if they were in exact same situation. Why? You really should pay attention to the story and not just pictures. Wolverine would've left just like Spider-man did because there were more important things to do and they were running out of time. Punisher would've never picked a pointless battle over saving innocent lives as well. How the hell does that qualify as cowardice in you book? Spider-man would've never left if it was a random encounter and Colossus was destroying buildings or threatening innocents. What aspect of Spider-man's character would even lead you to believe something like that? He attacked a 50-foot Thanos while in Lady Death's realm but a holding back Colossus scared him? Right... Just look at the context, it's 100% clear he's willing to fight until he dies BUT only as long as there's point to fighting. Like saving someone. It's common sense, not cowardice. His battle with Worthy Thing is a good example of that. Pete was barely standing, it was another battle he knew he can't possibly win but kept on fighting because Ben threatened innocents. Also If you think that Colossus letting Rulk KO him was a sign of weakness you weren't paying much attention to the story. Same with Spider-man fight.
Ok, so let me ask you, would Hulk have left that fight? Would Wolverine have left that fight? Would Punisher have left that fight? Let me make it simple for you, NO. And yes, Colossus allowing himself to get KO'd is an act of total weakness. That act set his character back big time.
Originally posted by SamZED
Actually yes. Every character you mentioned would've left if they were in exact same situation. Why? You really should pay attention to the story and not just pictures. Wolverine would've left just like Spider-man did because there were more important things to do and they were running out of time. Punisher would've never picked a pointless battle over saving innocent lives as well. How the hell does that qualify as cowardice in you book? Spider-man would've never left if it was a random encounter and Colossus was destroying buildings or threatening innocents. What aspect of Spider-man's character would even lead you to believe something like that? He attacked a 50-foot Thanos while in Lady Death's realm but a holding back Colossus scared him? Right... Just look at the context, it's 100% clear he's willing to fight until he dies BUT only as long as there's point to fighting. Like saving someone. It's common sense, not cowardice. His battle with Worthy Thing is a good example of that. Pete was barely standing, it was another battle he knew he can't possibly win but kept on fighting because Ben threatened innocents. Also If you think that Colossus letting Rulk KO him was a sign of weakness you weren't paying much attention to the story. Same with Spider-man fight.
Ok-ok, Spiderman is great and I’m sure he would have done EVERYTHING he said he would if he had time. I’m sure the dialogue had nothing to do with the fact that KG had to save face for the character because he was going to exit the fight where in the first half Cap knocked his opponent out. And I’m sure Hulk, Wolverine, and Punisher would NEVER get caught up in a fight to the point where they would lose focus on their real task. It’s so clear now.
Originally posted by KingD19
That's what Namor did when he found out Hope wasn't in Tabula Rasa. She-Hulk and Cage were out, and he could have kept slugging it out with Thing. And Namor one of the most arrogant, pretentious, I'm better than you guy's in Marvel right now.
lol, that's true. The thing about Namor though is he doesn't believe for one minute Thing can beat him. But the case can be made also that Thing bested him early on and the second round was even. So by vs standards, that's a Thing win.
Originally posted by JDUP01Your sarcasm is misplaced here. You would've had a point if Spider-man was known for running away from a fight. He's not. In fact he's known for doing the opposite. Even if he can't win and is getting killed. But again, ONLY if there's a POINT to fighting.
Ok-ok, Spiderman is great and I’m sure he would have done EVERYTHING he said he would if he had time. I’m sure the dialogue had nothing to do with the fact that KG had to save face for the character because he was going to exit the fight where in the first half Cap knocked his opponent out. And I’m sure Hulk, Wolverine, and Punisher would NEVER get caught up in a fight to the point where they would lose focus on their real task. It’s so clear now.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/sm1id.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/sm2t.jpg/
He doesn't just fight for the sake of fighting especially when there are more important things to do. Or if there's no immidiate danger to anyone he can retreat to prep for a powerful foe. That's what superheroes do. I don't understand the part of your post about focus. What does that have to do with anything? You want me to post a scan of Wolverine not wanting to engage in a pointless fight? Or an example of Hulk losing focus and getting too cared away? Cause I can do that.
Originally posted by JDUP01
Whatever. I still think you're mixing your video game reality with your comic book reality. Your putting way too much emphasis on KO's and cuts and bruises. That's what is stupid. That stuff means nothing. The end result is all that counts.
Originally posted by SamZED
Your sarcasm is misplaced here. You would've had a point if Spider-man was known for running away from a fight. He's not. In fact he's known for doing the opposite. Even if he can't win and is getting killed. But again, ONLY if there's a POINT to fighting.http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/sm1id.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/sm2t.jpg/He doesn't just fight for the sake of fighting especially when there are more important things to do. Or if there's no immidiate danger to anyone he can retreat to prep for a powerful foe. That's what superheroes do. I don't understand the part of your post about focus. What does that have to do with anything? You want me to post a scan of Wolverine not wanting to engage in a pointless fight? Or an example of Hulk losing focus and getting too cared away? Cause I can do that.
I'm sure you could find scans for both of our arguements if you wanted to. So don't waste your time.
As far as Spiderman goes, he did not have to engage Colossus at all. You do realize that I'm sure. No need for the webs in the eyes and legs. No need for the kidney punches. Sure Colossus started it, but Spiderman is too quick for him to catch. Ultimately it takes two to tango. Spidey could have said he didn't have time for his nonesense because he's trying to save the world. But he did not. Spidey thought he could take him and found out he couldn't. You are right, there was no reason for him to die. So he split. But the comic book reality is Spiderman made it a fight too. And he ran off.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You really don't know what you are talking about. All I would like to see is a definitive win with Colossus holding the belt, preferably against a strong brick, with just the power he posseses. Not through some plot device which is the only thing so far that has put him on top.
I'm hoping for a definitive win over Thing. Not sure if that's going to happen.
Originally posted by JDUP01Pretty sure he was trying to keep Colossus occupied so DD could look around. And once Matt was done they had to leave and continue looking some place else. It's not like Spider-man actually thought he can take Colossus but ran away once he realised that he can't. He did what he had to do and then jst continued the mission. Dont see it as an act of cowardice but lets agree to disagree. Either way it was made clear that Colossus won.
I'm sure you could find scans for both of our arguements if you wanted to. So don't waste your time.As far as Spiderman goes, he did not have to engage Colossus at all. You do realize that I'm sure. No need for the webs in the eyes and legs. No need for the kidney punches. Sure Colossus started it, but Spiderman is too quick for him to catch. Ultimately it takes two to tango. Spidey could have said he didn't have time for his nonesense because he's trying to save the world. But he did not. Spidey thought he could take him and found out he couldn't. You are right, there was no reason for him to die. So he split. But the comic book reality is Spiderman made it a fight too. And he ran off.
Originally posted by KingD19
Gonna disagree with you on both points there. If Hulk was in control of himself(and he usually is these days), or Wolverine or Punisher were in that same position. They'd have left. Finding Hope and stopping the Earth from being eaten by a cosmic fire bird takes precedent over like Sam said, trying to stop someone who has Unstoppable in his name. They can always finish the fight later. It's a comic, any reason to start up a fight again will do.And Colossus allowing himself to get KO'd was the exact opposite. It took a supreme amount of inner strength and will power to override the almost total influence of a Demon God who was willing him to destroy the most important support structure for Utopia. If he'd beaten Rulk or gone so far as to kill him, he would have snapped that support beam like a twig and potentially killed everyone on that island. So letting Rulk beat him was an act of strength; not physical, but mental and spiritual. We already saw he had enough physical strength to beat Rulk like a step child before he turned back to normal.
Bingo
