Originally posted by GM Nebaris
GE makes a really good point. Enough of this Anakin >> Dooku crap.
Originally posted by darthsith19
But he does, every source we have says that it was a fair fight, nothing says that Dooku was holding back. If Dooku was, for some foolish reason, holding back then that's Dooku being arrogance. Either way, Anakin beat Dooku fair and square.
OK this is what really pisses me off. When everyone says Anakin bet Dooku fair and square. I accept Anakin won, its almost impossible to say he lost when it was Dooku lying dead on the ground. But Dooku was fighting TWO opponents at once. You say Anakin is better because he won - when in reality Anakin and Obi-Wan won. If it had been a fair one on one fight the outcome would be quite different. You cant say that Anakin is better based on one battle - especially one with so many factors as the one in ROTS. Had Obi-Wan not been there Dooku wouldnt have become so tired. If Dooku wasnt tired he would be able to fight better against Anakin. If he was able to fight better against Anakin he might have won. So please, do you see my point?
Originally posted by Rampant ox
OK this is what really pisses me off. When everyone says Anakin bet Dooku fair and square. I accept Anakin won, its almost impossible to say he lost when it was Dooku lying dead on the ground. But Dooku was fighting TWO opponents at once. You say Anakin is better because he won - when in reality Anakin and Obi-Wan won. If it had been a fair one on one fight the outcome would be quite different. You cant say that Anakin is better based on one battle - especially one with so many factors as the one in ROTS. Had Obi-Wan not been there Dooku wouldnt have become so tired. If Dooku wasnt tired he would be able to fight better against Anakin. If he was able to fight better against Anakin he might have won. So please, do you see my point?
What pisses me off. Is that in this thread you say that he was so sitred from fighting two people at once. But in the next vs. thread you'll say that he effortlessly fought both of them at the same time.
But he does, every source we have says that it was a fair fight, nothing says that Dooku was holding back. If Dooku was, for some foolish reason, holding back then that's Dooku being arrogance. Either way, Anakin beat Dooku fair and square.
Exactly my point. And Mace takes Sidious in a fair fight and Depa takes Mace in a fair fight yet Sidious and Mace are higher than Mace and Depa (respectively) on nearly everybody's list. Consistency is needed, people.
Originally posted by Generic Hero
Exactly my point. And Mace takes Sidious in a fair fight and Depa takes Mace in a fair fight yet Sidious and Mace are higher than Mace and Depa (respectively) on nearly everybody's list. Consistency is needed, people.
What are you getting at? SW is fully of inconsistencies.
Yoda is supposedly able to WTFpwn Sidious but tells Luke in RotJ not to underestimate his power?
Dooku has no problem fighting Yoda but pisses his pants when he is even in a hologram connection with Sidious?
Dooku can battle Yoda, but flees when Mace confronts him?
Mace is number two in the order, but can defeat Sidious whereas Sidious stalemates Yoda?
Originally posted by Generic Hero
Exactly my point. And Mace takes Sidious in a fair fight and Depa takes Mace in a fair fight yet Sidious and Mace are higher than Mace and Depa (respectively) on nearly everybody's list. Consistency is needed, people.
What are you getting at? SW is fully of inconsistencies.
I wasn't referring to the Universe itself; only some lists here.
Yoda is supposedly able to WTFpwn Sidious but tells Luke in RotJ not to underestimate his power?
Yoda isn't able to do that.
Dooku has no problem fighting Yoda but pisses his pants when he is even in a hologram connection with Sidious?
Whether those fears were warranted is another question. Sidious is known for being sly and cunning; known for having a mental dominance over others. Dooku might not be an exception.
Dooku can battle Yoda, but flees when Mace confronts him?
Let's look at the situations:
1) Yoda vs Dooku. They fight, Dooku flees.
2) Yoda vs Dooku 2. They fight, Dooku loses and Dooku flees.
3) Yoda vs Mace. They fight, Dooku flees.
Where's the inconsistency?
Mace is number two in the order, but can defeat Sidious whereas Sidious stalemates Yoda?
This is where it gets complicated. Mace beat Sidious in a close-quartered chamber and when Sidious pulled out his force powers, Mace could counter it with his saber.
Yoda stalemated Sidious in a fight where he didn't have a saber (in the force fight, of course) in a huge chamber absolutely littered with obstacles.
No, Depa doesn't take Mace. When did this happen?
Shatterpoint. Depa beats Mace in a saber fight. Granted, Mace wasn't 100%.
Mace beat Sidious in a saber fight but Sidious is stronger ebcause he could have taken out Mace with the Force even if Anakin hadn't entered.
You're speculating. If he could destroy Mace with his powers (Something Lucas explicitly says he tried to do) he would have.
Wrapping up, my question to some of you: Why do you guys put Anakin over Dooku and not Mace over Sidious?
Originally posted by Generic Hero
Err, that should be [b]Dooku vs Mace*, not Yoda vs Mace 😄 [/B]
You owned me. 😛
But, then again, there is completely 100% irrefutable evidence that Dooku lost to Anakin because he was inferior (coming from the script, commentary, Making of Star Wars book, and all that jazz) - whereas the exact situation with Sidious remains inconclusive.