Black Bolt vs. Black Adam

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Black Bolt is too slow in a forum setting.

On top of that, he has his shields and energy manipulation to even any speed-based odds. He's also certainly durable enough to take an initial attack, and all he needs to do is make any sort of noise as he's being struck to counter any ensuing strikes.

Adam has a speed advantage for sure, I just don't see it as being enough to counter Black Bolt's significant range, versatility and damage output advantages.

Originally posted by Existere
Black Bolt's matched Gladiator in hand to hand for a few pages before without having to use any of his versatility, until he nearly KO'd Glads with a whisper. This was all back in the day, before he grew some more backbone and started really letting loose with his voice.

I just see Black Bolt's powerset as being really advantageous for fighting bricks, and history tends to agree with me. In a forum fight, to the best of their ability, Black Bolt should take this more often then not imo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Based on what loss of adam?

I don't need to base it on a particular instance. Adam is a brick, and is poorly equipped to fight somebody like Black Bolt.

Feel free to disagree, but if you want to challenge that, you're going to need to start with something other than 'he's never lost!'.

Ranged attacks are the main advantage BB has going for him. BA has his "SHAZAM!" bolts, but he has to be pretty close to go that route--and I'm unsure how those would affect BB anyway (though they'd likely incapacitate him.)

I'm leaning toward Adam here... Mainly because I view him superior to BB in every other way.

Originally posted by Existere
For Black Adam's usually fighting speed? No he isn't.

Contradictory.

You mentioned forum setting for why Black Bolt should have an advantage, since he could let full force blasts loose and not have to be hampered by the need to just 'whisper' out of character restrictions.

Same goes for Bladam's speed.

I said BB is fast, yes.
Unfortunately being merely super sonic (and this is more travel speed as opposed to outright physical speed) is a far cry from Black Adam's speed.

There's nothing keeping Adam from blitzing him off the bat in a forum setting.

Originally posted by Existere
lolwut?

I don't need to base it on a particular instance. Adam is a brick, and is poorly equipped to fight somebody like Black Bolt.

Feel free to disagree, but if you want to challenge that, you're going to need to start with something other than 'he's never lost!'.

Surfer and midnight sun have also survived a whisper from black bolt without any problem.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Contradictory.

You mentioned forum setting for why Black Bolt should have an advantage, since he could let full force blasts loose and not have to be hampered by the need to just 'whisper' out of character restrictions.

Same goes for Bladam's speed.

I said BB is fast, yes.
Unfortunately being merely super sonic (and this is more travel speed as opposed to outright physical speed) is a far cry from Black Adam's speed.

There's nothing keeping Adam from blitzing him off the bat in a forum setting.

What I said is that Black Bolt's character these days is a lot more prone to cutting loose with his voice and his powers, unlike back in the day when he was stalemating and beating Gladiator and Hulk while holding back to whispers.

So no, I'm still operating under the assumption that they fight to the best of their ability while remaining in character.

As for blitzing, I'd argue that Bladam's character, Black Bolt's durability and Black Bolt's vocal responses keep a blitz from being effective.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So is superman, but that never stopped him before. Oh and that "near ko", I wouldn't call it that

Surfer and midnight sun have also survived a whisper from black bolt without any problem.

Black Adam, incidentally, is much more of a brick and fights like much more of a brick than Superman does. Back up your arguments with a little bit of logic and we could get a real discussion going.

I don't deal with this arbitrary 'in-character' type arguments.

They get us nowhere and attempts to give those who don't have counters for feats some wiggle room to argue.

Black Adam is thousands of times faster than Black Bolt. This is fact. Black Adam's powerset since his inception has included this superpower. And he has, in-character, used his speed plenty.

Therfeore, he has the explicit powerset for it, has used it enough to absolutely know that he can do so, and in a forum setting they fight to the BEST of their demonstrated ability.

And for Adam, his demonstrated ability is that he's, again, thousands of times faster than Black Bolt. BB will be in slow motion to him.

Durability? It will help him with an Adam just standing toe to toe with him, but with BA punching at full out berserker speed, no.

Besides that, he's not going to be able to counter with his radial blasts if he's getting blitzed. He's not going to get any breathing room whatsoever.

Besides this, the Marvel family has impeccable regeneration. CM for example healed back to whole after being blown inside out by a tesseract bomb, in a single panel. BB is not going to do worse than that.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I don't deal with this arbitrary 'in-character' type arguments.

They get us nowhere and attempts to give those who don't have counters for feats some wiggle room to argue.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Therfeore, he has the explicit powerset for it, has used it enough to absolutely know that he can do so, and in a forum setting they fight to the BEST of their demonstrated ability.

He's up against a character with VASTLY more damage output than he has, and that damage is applied as exactly the kind of area attacks that Black Adam is never written to dance around.

If you want to discuss Black Adam as a character, then let's do so.

Why do people here downplay BB speed? He's never been made to look slow . He's gone toe to toe against Thor like characters without using his main weapon ( scream) . Not saying he can beat BA , but I cant believe how he's been portrayed here.

I think this is a very good fight. I'm going to give it a split. 5/10

Originally posted by Existere
Then... don't deal with it? But if you want to discuss how Adam, written well, would approach a fight, then you'll need to account for how he fights in a comic, and I'll do the same for Black Bolt.

I'm not dealing with it, hence I'm not giving your stance any real weight. Because its basically an non-committal admission that if Black Adam fights to the best of his possible ability, then there is nothing Black Bolt can do to counter it. So you attempt to say something along the lines of 'well, if Black Adam doesn't use his abilities as well as he could, then Black Bolt will win'.

Written Well? Good phrase. Written well, Black Adam would use his speed--legit lightspeed+, physically, as in how fast he can think and move his limbs, not simply in flying. Which Black Bolt is a far cry from.

In a cross-over comic, this would be a tremendous fight. The writers would sit down and argue that they are both 'class 100', 'super fast', both can fly, both are super durable, and have a mean streak when it comes to throwing down. They would hand wave any deeper arguments as a good fight will sell more than a squash match.

Unfortunately, on the forum, we break down those things more deeply than actual writers do. And when we do, we come to realize that they are not equal as class 100s by any means, they are not equal in durability and damage soak, and they are worlds apart from each other in super speed levels.

Adam is noticeably stronger, noticeably more durable, has excellent regeneration--putting Black Bolt's trump card in question as a means of winning in the first place--and he is literally thousands of times faster.

On the forum, he wins. 'Written well', Adam is the type to not phuck around in combat. And that would translate well to a forum win.

Bladam via sodomy.

People on this board fight both in character and to the best of their ability. And no, it's not entirely contradictory for them to do that.

Which is why Adam wins decisively.

Its in-character for him to demonstrate speed, and to the best of his ability, he would use it as well as he could. And win.

lol

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Which is why Adam wins decisively.

Its in-character for him to demonstrate speed, and to the best of his ability, he would use it as well as he could. And win.

The argument just becomes whether it would be in character for him to do so.

That's a silly, arbitrary, non-factual argument though. Goes back and forth and has no conclusive end.

Dealing with the facts makes things so much quicker and easier; which are that he's demonstrated a significant speed advantage over his opponent in this thread.

and he was certainly 'in-character' whenever he demonstrated it, afterall, he certainly wasn't pretending to be someone else was he? vin

Originally posted by CosmicComet
That's a silly, arbitrary, non-factual argument though. Goes back and forth and has no conclusive end.

Dealing with the facts makes things so much quicker and easier; which are that he's demonstrated a significant speed advantage over his opponent in this thread.

and he was certainly 'in-character' whenever he demonstrated it, afterall, he certainly wasn't pretending to be someone else was he? vin

So what then, because he has speed, he automatically uses it?