Darth Revan Vs Mace and Mundi

Started by Lightsnake8 pages

Originally posted by Illustrious
So is Vrook and Vander on the council in Sith War? Did you see [b]anyone here make that assertion? Anyone?

-cricket chirp-

I'm waiting.

Guess not. Reading comprehension is your friend. We deduce that they were alive and trained Jedi at the time of the Sith War based on their timelines. It's not about arguing the semantics of their existence.

Maybe because he politically infiltrated the Republic and used propaganda? I'm not saying it wasn't a good political maneuver, but it doesn't speak of his power. Like I said, is Hitler a superior individual than George Washington? Can he beat him in a fight?

I'm not mixing up the topics. Unless you're proposing that Kun suddenly learned how to use force choke while he was a spirit, you're unfounded. You said (paraphrased) "the ancient Sith never used force choke without their technology." I countered it doesn't show anything, as it doesn't show they can't. You've never countered that statement, you've merely tried to spin it in circles.

He built the ship, he clearly has the knowledge that exceeds the level shown of people past the Golden Age.

And since when is this a "fall in and strip down" thing? Lightsabers are a weapon. Are you proposing they fight fisticuff? Besides, you can't prove what level they are at without their equipment. DE Sidious used equipment, I'm not arguing how powerful he would be if he was naked.

So you've officially:

1) Applied hypocritical, double-standard logic.
2) Arbitrarily omitted, tampered with evidence.
3) Avoided the topic on multiple occassions.
4) Changed the parameters of the original discussion on whim.

Good job man.

There you go again with the grandiose terms, you're bias really shows through. He sure didn't manipulate the Rebels. He sure didn't manipulate much besides his own bowels when he was benchpressed into the reactor core.

Fact of the matter is, you have no proof he could have done what you said. In fact, the evidence we have suggests Mace kicked his ass fair and square.

We see him lightning him out the window. You said he would push someone out the window while he was fighting him.

And I'm sure Anakin hacking off his arm had NOTHING to do with that.

So is the "let's have some guy get in a chamber and sacrifice himself with a material that happens to own pretty much any living creature it comes into airborne contact with, and then let's get my ship blown right when I'm at the crossroads of victory."

Rhetorical nonsense. Prove that he did research on Endor, and prove that the research was superior to any (or the lack thereof) of Naga Sadow. The end result was the Sidious wound up in the bottom of a reactor core, and Sadow limped home. Personally, I'd rather be Sadow actually.

The final script.

And it's quite apparent that you're not watching your ROTS DVD. Yoda jumps on the pod, gets his saber knocked out by the lightning, puts his hands up, and initially is leaning back. His eyes narrow and he pushes himself to a vertical base. That's overpowering.

If I'm armwrestling someone and my arm is nearly pinned but then I fight back to even, I exhibited more strength than my opponent, clear as that.

Again, avoiding the point. You said Sidious had him lined up. He did not at that point.

You said it wouldn't have impeded him, you had no proof.

Now you say that Sidious "might have trained him." Great job, and if that was the case, maybe he wouldn't get thrown down a reactor core by a parapalegic.

So Ooroo's sacrifice wasn't his fault. Your point? Doling out blame now is a second grade playground affair. You're just deviating from the topic in trying to score Sidious a win.

Fine, fine, I'll concede. Sidious would kick Sadow's ass in a farting contest. [/B]

1. Fine, your point is seen, I concede the point.

2. I never counted Exar among the Ancient Sith, Illustrious.....though Hitler vs. Washington would make a helluva pay per view.

3. When was it ever hinted Sadow built that ship? And one thing noone seems to be able to answer: WHAT ARTIFACTS DID DE SIDIOUS USE?! Name a single one on his person when he did some of his feats-hell, at one point in the comic, he was fighting naked!

4. Y'know Illustrious, I'm REALLY attempting to show you respect in this debate as you and Janus I respect highly, could you please return the favor here? I admitted I was wrong before and if I am, I'll admit it, but cut the insults.

5. The evidence suggests that Sidious, who avoided Mace to cut down three skilled Jedi, drove Mace back then suddenly gets worse as Anakin arrives lost fair and square? And the lightning? When does force lightning rot your teeth?

6. Technically, Sidious wound up on Byss...howwever, unlike Sadow, Sidious had the area under his thumb and since he made it a base of operations...Sadow took no time to prepare or even make certain his rival was really dead, he simply plunged right in. And he was never at the crossroads of victory in the first place. His men were deadlocked with the Republic till Ooroo's sacrifice and Gav knocked his concentration out...and you may want to reconsider being sadow when you consider his homecoming and final fates

7. I could've sworn I see Sidious step forward as well as Yoda, that's honestly not sarcasm on my part, I really believe that's what happens

8. I can provide a source saying Palpatine kept tabs on Anakin (The Chronology), y'know.

9. Ooroo's death was hardly the only disaster! Most of his forces on the planet were illusions and of the three planets, he made sure Gav went to CINNAGAR, where there was vicious fighting going on...and decided to make sure his men DIDN'T heed Gav's instructions to not kill his father figure...and Sadow was honestly shocked Gav betrayed him? I could forgive giving the kid a small position...but passing over Sith lords as a number 2?

2. I never counted Exar among the Ancient Sith, Illustrious.....though Hitler vs. Washington would make a helluva pay per view.

Fine, but he still was pretty adorned. And I'd watch it, but I'd put my money on the guy who had the respect of everyone that fought with him rather than the Austrian painter.

3. When was it ever hinted Sadow built that ship? And one thing noone seems to be able to answer: WHAT ARTIFACTS DID DE SIDIOUS USE?! Name a single one on his person when he did some of his feats-hell, at one point in the comic, he was fighting naked!

It was implied, and it was possessive, and the narrator did say Sadow created artifacts. Also DE Sidious had Naga Sadow's amulet.

He fought naked at one, he didn't cast storms and throw stars around naked. The fact of the matter is that you're attempting to compare an unknown to an unknown. You have no idea how powerful Sadow is without his equipment, undermining him doesn't prove your case. In fact, it's very transparent.

4. Y'know Illustrious, I'm REALLY attempting to show you respect in this debate as you and Janus I respect highly, could you please return the favor here? I admitted I was wrong before and if I am, I'll admit it, but cut the insults.

What insults? I certainly don't try to insult you personally. I've gone down point and point and I've shown you where you committed the fallacies, and I've shown you where the bias comes through by your use of grandiose vocabulary.

5. The evidence suggests that Sidious, who avoided Mace to cut down three skilled Jedi, drove Mace back then suddenly gets worse as Anakin arrives lost fair and square? And the lightning? When does force lightning rot your teeth?

Drove him back? You see Mace bring his saber up, struggle, and then turn the lightning back on Sidious' face, and then have Anakin walk into the room.

And since when does Sidious' aesthetic appearance have anything to do with it? Sadow asn't exactly a looker either.

6. Technically, Sidious wound up on Byss...howwever, unlike Sadow, Sidious had the area under his thumb and since he made it a base of operations...Sadow took no time to prepare or even make certain his rival was really dead, he simply plunged right in. And he was never at the crossroads of victory in the first place. His men were deadlocked with the Republic till Ooroo's sacrifice and Gav knocked his concentration out...and you may want to reconsider being sadow when you consider his homecoming and final fates

The Jedi were described as being driven back, while up to 90% of the forces were illusions.

It's not like Sidious being thrown down a reactor core and then being shot in the back by a blaster as being a much better fate.

7. I could've sworn I see Sidious step forward as well as Yoda, that's honestly not sarcasm on my part, I really believe that's what happens

The fact of the matter is that Yoda is a small little green guy, was on the robes, and then pushed himself up. If you're trying to pin someone down and then start resisting and succeding, natural reaction is to put more weight/force on it. It doesn't change the fact that Yoda had reversed the fortunes.

8. I can provide a source saying Palpatine kept tabs on Anakin (The Chronology), y'know.

Yes, and if Obi-Wan had decided to use a force push, it wouldn't have mattered. At least Naga kept Gav close.

9. Ooroo's death was hardly the only disaster! Most of his forces on the planet were illusions and of the three planets, he made sure Gav went to CINNAGAR, where there was vicious fighting going on...and decided to make sure his men DIDN'T heed Gav's instructions to not kill his father figure...and Sadow was honestly shocked Gav betrayed him? I could forgive giving the kid a small position...but passing over Sith lords as a number 2?

I'm not saying Sadow is without his mistakes, I'm just saying that he had his eye on Gav, just like Sidious had his eye on Anakin. They both ended up not quite working out. The rest is semantics.

1. Unlike Sadow, Kun wasn't totally dependent on it: He took Vodo out without usage of equipment.

2. Where was it said DE Sidious had Sadow's amulet, where was that established? He's never hinted at that....by DE, I'm not sure if Sadow's name was even in print....though when Sidious was creating force storms, he was wearing only an open black robe...and to Luke's credit, he certainly fights naked in the force

3. I may've taken somethings as insults, my mistake.

4. Huh, what? Anakin is in the room before the lightning begins...

5. Where were they described as being driven back? We saw them handling numerous Massassi apiece...and in Sidious's defense, he was trying to escape a dying corpse when Han shot him

6. In the ultimate duel of good vs. evil, I doubt Yoda cared about his life if he could take Sidious with him.

7. Naga pretty much shut him off and let him go do as he willed...I don't call that 'keeping him close.'

8. If Sadow had his eyes on Gav, it may be prudent to take the MAssassi aside and say "Knife him if he tries ANYTHING." ....hell, Gav's monologuing right by them!

lightsnake, you are a fanboy, and you base everything pretty much upon feats, you underrate characters such as kun why? because his feats were not as great or not as well detailed as NJO luke and DE sidious, you never seem to realise, that in the movies, the jedi had no real oppenent, being killed by clones more so than the sith, one on one saber duels and force fights were rare, you should also know that one that trains in swordsmanship now, place him back into the past, against a proper knight, the chances are he would lose...one spends his lifetime doing so, and using it in experience, while the other, has access to newer modern weapons...so as techonogly advances it can be stated, much knowledge and skill of the past are lost...inclusive of battle tactics and one on one fights. conclusion in terms of skill and experience ancient sith > modern sith, ancient jedi > modern jedi...example: Sun Tzu was a master at battle tactics, we have knowledge he won 100/100 battles, we have what he did, but so far noone has replicated his success nor his fame ie even if the modern jedi had the same knowledge, it could be learnt wrong, or applied in a way that is becomes ineffective..

Originally posted by w00t2112
lightsnake, you are a fanboy, and you base everything pretty much upon feats, you underrate characters such as kun why? because his feats were not as great or not as well detailed as NJO luke and DE sidious, you never seem to realise, that in the movies, the jedi had no real oppenent, being killed by clones more so than the sith, one on one saber duels and force fights were rare, you should also know that one that trains in swordsmanship now, place him back into the past, against a proper knight, the chances are he would lose...one spends his lifetime doing so, and using it in experience, while the other, has access to newer modern weapons...so as techonogly advances it can be stated, much knowledge and skill of the past are lost...inclusive of battle tactics and one on one fights. conclusion in terms of skill and experience ancient sith > modern sith, ancient jedi > modern jedi...example: Sun Tzu was a master at battle tactics, we have knowledge he won 100/100 battles, we have what he did, but so far noone has replicated his success nor his fame ie even if the modern jedi had the same knowledge, it could be learnt wrong, or applied in a way that is becomes ineffective..

You mean I dare base character's powers on what they accomplished?

Mundi would win

Originally posted by Nilky
Mundi would win

Any proof?

Originally posted by Nilky
Mundi would win