Silverspider/Dizzle's Team Tounrament: Round 1, Fight 2- DarkCrawler vs. illadelph12

Blitzkrieg sounds pretty limited as far as constructs go... Probably nowhere near the Ray, who is in turn nowhere near as powerful as someone like GL or IW, who could conceivably pull a OHKO. (the Ray definitely can't do anything that would qualify as OHKO. He's fine as well) Never missing is fine too, it's more a tactical advantage than a power one. I'd group it together with having an overdose on fighting skills.

Redoing strategies is fine too. Simply because whoever posts first will inevitably be countered in ways that the other team would probably never think of on their own, without knowing at least a little bit of what's happening with the other team. So you can react to the other guy's strategy, but you also run the risk of being confusing to the people watching the fights. Building off of or tweaking existing strategies is sometimes better than starting from scratch. And I find being too specific gets you backed into corners a lot. Just some advice, directed at no one in particular.

Understood.

You know, I just thought of something:

Agent X's ears aren't protected by his vibranium armor, his body is. He's able to hear, and he carries on conversations while in his armor. He's vulnerable to Vertigo.

Originally posted by illadelph12
You know, I just thought of something:

Agent X's ears aren't protected by his vibranium armor, his body is. He's able to hear, and he carries on conversations while in his armor. He's vulnerable to Vertigo.

and his armour's ripped there... what happened to it?

😖hifty:

Originally posted by Scoobless
and his armour's ripped there... what happened to it?

😖hifty:

More than likely because it's a vibranium mesh suit, which means it isn't heat proof or air tight, though it does give good protection from the blasts of explosions (shockwave).

Black Panther doesn't like fire much either:

http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blz058yf.jpg

😆

Why do I keep calling Agent Zero "Agent X"?

Originally posted by illadelph12
You know, I just thought of something:

Agent X's ears aren't protected by his vibranium armor, his body is. He's able to hear, and he carries on conversations while in his armor. He's vulnerable to Vertigo.

Vibranium armor does absorbs all sound. Black Panther can hear too, but when this guy is his nemesis, he should be deaf every time you fight him. He isn't.

Klaw can bodily transform ambient sound for a variety of uses through his prosthetic sound converter. He can' project waves of intense, high-volume sound (maximum loudness: 170 decibels), capable of deafening anyone within a .6 mile radius. He can convert sound into controlled blasts of concussive force with a maximum force equivalent to 3,000 pounds of TNT. He can also create 3-dimensional, mobile sound/mass constructs possessing such complex forms as those of animals. He shapes and animates these constructs by mental command and they only remain in existence for as long as he wills them. Not possessed of the sentient life force that his own sonic form is, the constructs are not nearly as invulnerable.

Klaw's major vulnerability is his susceptibility to Vibranium, the substance that triggered his original transformation. Because Vibranium absorbs all forms of energy including sound, the nearness of a certain quantity of Vibranium can cause the mass of his energy form to become unstable and collapse. Usually when this occurs Klaw's body is absorbed by his own prosthetic sound converter.

Everyone's setting the forest on fire and flying above the trees... Does no one realise smoke rises... 😑?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Imprisoning an opponent (or an opponent's team) within a construct is an OHKO.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Vibranium armor does absorbs all sound. Black Panther can hear too, but when this guy is his nemesis, he should be deaf every time you fight him. He isn't.

More wacky comics physics.

It doesn't matter though. That scan provided me with all the evidence I need for my attack. Agent Zero's armor was damaged in that blast, which means there's inherent flaws in the structural integrity of his armor (it's not indestructible). I can take full advantage of that.

I'm proceeding with my plan as stated.

Monolith is setting my flank on fire as my forces advance.

You said you've now moved Blitzkrieg up to the canopy of the forest (100+ feet in the air) to lay in wait of KK and Vertigo to come up for air and set trees on fire, so I have a 4-3 advantage on the ground. 2 of my assets (Gamora and Karate Kid) are adept at fighting in zero visibility through their intensive martial arts training, so this is still an ideal situation for me.

Karate Kid is the fastest player on the battlefield with his Legion flight ring, so I have an even greater advantage in mobility with Blitzkrieg up in the trees. Both he and Gamora (and Karnak)'s senses are keen to the point where they can sense and dodge multiple incoming projectiles blindfolded, and with the smoke and trees hindering long range visibility, it means close quarters combat is the norm. That's right up my ally. Gamora can and has taken Thing down with ease, and he's loud, lumbering and slow, so he's going to be the first one down, either by a nerve strike from Gamora or by KK.

Karnak and KK are analogous, but not completely identical. KK is the more skilled of the two. Karnak is highly adept at all martial arts disciplines of Earth of his era, but Val is fully trained in all martial arts in his Galaxy in the 30th century. He also has the advantage of flight, and greater speed and agility through his Legion ring. His skill, plus the added velocity he can attain through the ring give him the edge over Karnak. Plus the added distraction of Vertigo bombarding him with her pulse would lower his focus and ability in combat and give KK an even greater edge, because even a moments distraction could be fatal.

Now, I'm going to take some fatalities, but that's the price in war. Agent Zero is a master in stealth, and armed to the tea. Someone is going to have to take a bullet (or 2 or 3)., but my team is not going to break cover. Gamora has a healing factor, so she'd be the ideal choice to draw Agent Zero's fire and give away his position, especially since in the smoke his range of vision will be shortened. Gamora and Vertigo go out in the open (sorry ladies, sacrifices must be made) and Agent Zero takes his shots, but in so doing, KK has heightened senses and can hear where the bullets are coming from, and with his ring can get to Zero's position quickly, disarm him, and engage him hand to hand.

Karate Kid can sense the weak points in any object, and with the scan showing that the explosion damaged Agent Zero's armor, there are apparent weaknesses in his suit, which KK can exploit. Agent Zero doesn't have a healing factor, but he can absorb kinetic energy to increase his strength.

It won't matter.

KK can exert enough force and has enough skill to strike pressure points on Agent Zero's body and break his bones with his punches and kicks, leaving him inoperable (though he'd be charged up from the kinesis, but he doesn't have a healing factor, so what good is it when you've got broken arms and are unconscious), and Gamora should be able to heal from the gunshot in time to lend assistance if needed.

R.I.P Vertigo, you served your purpose.

With everyone down but Blitzkrieg (who's up in the trees), it would leave me with Monolith and KK (if Gamora hasn't healed yet). KK flies fast enough to take Blitzkrieg by surprise (as Blitzkrieg doesn't have superhuman reflexes), but Blitzkrieg does have shields. KK is able to sense the weak point in forcefields as well, so he strikes at BK's field in an attempt to shatter it.

Monolith, on the other hand, can go blast for blast with Blitzkrieg all day and all night, and has enough fire power to batter him. KK flies up to engage Blitzkrieg as Monolith clears the burning forest around him with blasts of concussive force to clear his vantage point. If KK fails at taking BK, Monolith won't. BK can't take Monolith, and electricity can't harm him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Everyone's setting the forest on fire and flying above the trees... Does no one realise smoke rises... 😑?

Iron Man does it in New Avengers #4...

I'm not flying above the trees.

We've already got Norse Gods and walking nuclear reactors in this tournament, it's no biggie. I'm not fighting Hal Jordan.

Originally posted by illadelph12
More wacky comics physics.

It doesn't matter though. That scan provided me with all the evidence I need for my attack. Agent Zero's armor was damaged in that blast, which means there's inherent flaws in the structural integrity of his armor (it's not indestructible). I can take full advantage of that.

I'm proceeding with my plan as stated.

Monolith is setting my flank on fire as my forces advance.

I never said that it is indestructible. It’s vibranium, not adamantium.

Originally posted by illadelph12
You said you've now moved Blitzkrieg up to the canopy of the forest (100+ feet in the air) to lay in wait of KK and Vertigo to come up for air and set trees on fire, so I have a 4-3 advantage on the ground. 2 of my assets (Gamora and Karate Kid) are adept at fighting in zero visibility through their intensive martial arts training, so this is still an ideal situation for me.

True. But Blitzkrieg isn’t just sitting on the tree all the time. He is flying around, and dropping on tree once for while to not have a long lightning bridge.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Karate Kid is the fastest player on the battlefield with his Legion flight ring, so I have an even greater advantage in mobility with Blitzkrieg up in the trees. Both he and Gamora (and Karnak)'s senses are keen to the point where they can sense and dodge multiple incoming projectiles blindfolded, and with the smoke and trees hindering long range visibility, it means close quarters combat is the norm. That's right up my ally. Gamora can and has taken Thing down with ease, and he's loud, lumbering and slow, so he's going to be the first one down, either by a nerve strike from Gamora or by KK.

I don’t know if the same nerve strikes would apply to Thing. He’s his own, unique being, and his physique is radically different from normal human being. Where did she take out Thing?

And if KK is flying around in the smoke (since you said that it is limiting my players, but not yours), where the hell is Vertigo, and why isn’t she chocking on the smoke by now?

What also stops Thing from smashing the ground, making earthquakes to stop your team members of coming close?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Karnak and KK are analogous, but not completely identical. KK is the more skilled of the two. Karnak is highly adept at all martial arts disciplines of Earth of his era, but Val is fully trained in all martial arts in his Galaxy in the 30th century. He also has the advantage of flight, and greater speed and agility through his Legion ring. His skill, plus the added velocity he can attain through the ring give him the edge over Karnak. Plus the added distraction of Vertigo bombarding him with her pulse would lower his focus and ability in combat and give KK an even greater edge, because even a moments distraction could be fatal.

What Karate Kid has in skill, Karnak makes up with his superhuman speed, endurance, strength and far greater experience. Superhuman > human. Karnak doesn’t feel pain either. Besides, what are 1000000000 martial arts going to help when he might just use two or five in the match. And the velocity is good, but what use it is in hand to hand combat? I think that flight ring was not designed for that. All Karnak needs is one strike. With his superhuman speed, he will get it. Vertigo still can’t attack Karnak from all around. She can’t bombard the whole forest with her pulse. Especially when she is choking to death by all the smoke.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Now, I'm going to take some fatalities, but that's the price in war. Agent Zero is a master in stealth, and armed to the tea. Someone is going to have to take a bullet (or 2 or 3)., but my team is not going to break cover. Gamora has a healing factor, so she'd be the ideal choice to draw Agent Zero's fire and give away his position, especially since in the smoke his range of vision will be shortened. Gamora and Vertigo go out in the open (sorry ladies, sacrifices must be made) and Agent Zero takes his shots, but in so doing, KK has heightened senses and can hear where the bullets are coming from, and with his ring can get to Zero's position quickly, disarm him, and engage him hand to hand.

Unless he isn’t following right behind Gamora and Vertigo, hearing the shots won’t help. By the time he gets to the place, Agent Zero has already disappeared. He could be standing few feet from him, and he wouldn’t notice it. Zero was standing few inches from Sabretooth (whose senses are far, far better then KK’s) and he didn’t notice anything before he got his throat sliced. And you are clearly underestimating Agent Zero’s reaction speed if you think that Karate Kid can disarm him that easily. Zero can shoot bullets out of the air. After they have been fired.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8141/agentzero88te.gif
If Karate Kid will attack Zero, he gets face full of acid. Or bullets.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Karate Kid can sense the weak points in any object, and with the scan showing that the explosion damaged Agent Zero's armor, there are apparent weaknesses in his suit, which KK can exploit. Agent Zero doesn't have a healing factor, but he can absorb kinetic energy to increase his strength.

Originally posted by illadelph12
It won't matter.

KK can exert enough force and has enough skill to strike pressure points on Agent Zero's body and break his bones with his punches and kicks, leaving him inoperable (though he'd be charged up from the kinesis, but he doesn't have a healing factor, so what good is it when you've got broken arms and are unconscious), and Gamora should be able to heal from the gunshot in time to lend assistance if needed.

R.I.P Vertigo, you served your purpose.

I never realized that KK can make punches and kicks without kinetic force. They won’t break his bones if there is no kinetic force. Him punching and kicking Zero will just make him stronger.

And can Gamora heal from having his brains blown out? I doubt.

Originally posted by illadelph12
With everyone down but Blitzkrieg (who's up in the trees), it would leave me with Monolith and KK (if Gamora hasn't healed yet). KK flies fast enough to take Blitzkrieg by surprise (as Blitzkrieg doesn't have superhuman reflexes), but Blitzkrieg does have shields. KK is able to sense the weak point in forcefields as well, so he strikes at BK's field in an attempt to shatter it.

None of my team is down. ✅

And if KK attacks Blitzkrieg he will be shot down. Speed of thought is greater then 200 MPH. Especially, since Blitzkrieg thinks, lightning strikes KK. And if KK stops breaking his shield, Blitzkrieg certainly has time to act.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Monolith, on the other hand, can go blast for blast with Blitzkrieg all day and all night, and has enough fire power to batter him. KK flies up to engage Blitzkrieg as Monolith clears the burning forest around him with blasts of concussive force to clear his vantage point. If KK fails at taking BK, Monolith won't. BK can't take Monolith, and electricity can't harm him.

Agent Zero, Karnak and Thing certainly can harm Monolith.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]I never said that it is indestructible. It’s vibranium, not adamantium.

True. But Blitzkrieg isn’t just sitting on the tree all the time. He is flying around, and dropping on tree once for while to not have a long lightning bridge.

It's a redwood Forest. If he's flying above the trees, he's 100+ feet above the ground, and not helping in the battlefield

I don’t know if the same nerve strikes would apply to Thing. He’s his own, unique being, and his physique is radically different from normal human being. Where did she take out Thing?

Karate Kid has the ability to ascertain the weak points in any humanoid or object, and Gamora was trained by Thanos to do the same. It doesn't matter. KK's taken down Daxamites who are also unique physically, and more durable and agile than Thing.

And if KK is flying around in the smoke (since you said that it is limiting my players, but not yours), where the hell is Vertigo, and why isn’t she chocking on the smoke by now?

I already said before in the thread that KK flies Vertigo behind your position to catch your team in a cross fire. As I said, I'm proceding with my plan. That was in my plan.

What also stops Thing from smashing the ground, making earthquakes to stop your team members of coming close?

KK can fly and Gamora is agile enough to avoid losing her footing. Besides, Thing causing earthquakes won't only effect my team. Neither Agent Zero or Karnak can fly.

What Karate Kid has in skill, Karnak makes up with his superhuman speed, endurance, strength and far greater experience. Superhuman > human. Karnak doesn’t feel pain either. Besides, what are 1000000000 martial arts going to help when he might just use two or five in the match. And the velocity is good, but what use it is in hand to hand combat? I think that flight ring was not designed for that. All Karnak needs is one strike. With his superhuman speed, he will get it.

Actually, know. KK is faster than Karnak hand to hand. Karate Kid has faced Daxamites and kryptonians in hand to hand combat and has either defeated his opponent or forced a draw. Also, Karnak does not have a strength advantage either. Karate Kid can focus his chi and perform Super Karate which grants him superhuman strength potent enough to K.O. superhumans of Superman level strength and durability and destroy nigh indestructible metals.

Karnak is bested (and grounded).

Vertigo still can’t attack Karnak from all around. She can’t bombard the whole forest with her pulse. Especially when she is choking to death by all the smoke.

Vertigo is moving up from behind your position with KK, as I stated before.

Unless he isn’t following right behind Gamora and Vertigo, hearing the shots won’t help. By the time he gets to the place, Agent Zero has already disappeared. He could be standing few feet from him, and he wouldn’t notice it. Zero was standing few inches from Sabretooth (whose senses are far, far better then KK’s) and he didn’t notice anything before he got his throat sliced.

In actuality, there's no guarantee Gamora is hit. She does have reflexes and senses keen enough to dodge incoming projectiles and energy blasts. Her going out in the open is simply a ploy to get Agent Zero to give away his position. Karate Kid has been able to sense cloaked enemies, hear and locate heartbeats from a kilometer away, and sense an incoming blast of heat vision while onboard a spaceship. He'll know where the shots came from, and Agent Zero is not as fast as KK (or Gamora).

And you are clearly underestimating Agent Zero’s reaction speed if you think that Karate Kid can disarm him that easily. Zero can shoot bullets out of the air. After they have been fired.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8141/agentzero88te.gif
If Karate Kid will attack Zero, he gets face full of acid. Or bullets.

No, you're greatly underestimating Gamora and Karate Kid, and overestimating Agent Zero's effectiveness against them. Karate Kid has speed and reflexes good enough to handle superhumans 100x faster than any member on your team. Agent Zero will never land a hand on him.

I never realized that KK can make punches and kicks without kinetic force. They won’t break his bones if there is no kinetic force. Him punching and kicking Zero will just make him stronger. [quote]

No, it will kill Agent Zero. He absorbs the kinetic energy of the impact to enhance his strength. It doesn't mean the impact doesn't harm him. Why do you think he where's armor? His skin and bones aren't indestructable, and he doesn't have a healing factor. He can still be stabbed, shot, strangled, or mangled, you just have to do it right. KK or Gamora are more than capable of doing it right.

[quote]And can Gamora heal from having his brains blown out? I doubt.

Gamora has the Wolverine-esque upgrade kit thanks to Thanos. She has a metal skeleton and a healing factor, as well as enhanced strength, agility, amd endurance. She'll just dodge the shot Agent X fired at her and move in on the position where the shots originated. Then karate Kid and Gamora beat the living sh*t out of Agent Zero.

None of my team is down. ✅

None of your team survives.

And if KK attacks Blitzkrieg he will be shot down. Speed of thought is greater then 200 MPH. Especially, since Blitzkrieg thinks, lightning strikes KK. And if KK stops breaking his shield, Blitzkrieg certainly has time to act.

Blitzkrieg doesn't have superhuman reflexes. He has to mark his target to alter it's polarity and zap it. Karate Kid doesn't have to stay stationary, and he's fast enough to keep Blitzkrieg from having a clear shot. Besides, if Blitzkrieg is standing on the canopy of the forest, there's going to be a thick smoke screen about him, and he won't be able to see. Smoke does rise. Unless Blitzkrieg is flying above the smoke, he's not going to be able to see anything, and if he is flying above the smoke, there's abright trail of lightning telling KK where he is, so he'll be easy to avoid.

Agent Zero, Karnak and Thing certainly can harm Monolith.

Not when they're dead or knocked out.

You're team's simply outclassed.

And now, i actually need to get some work accomplished. 😆

What Karate Kid has in skill, Karnak makes up with his superhuman speed, endurance, strength and far greater experience.

Karnak doesn't have the edge in any category, and particularly experience. Karate Kid has been on active duty on a superhero team and has faced threats from numerous supervillains and alien superhuman races across the galaxy. Karnak mostly deals in Inhuman affairs in Attilan, and every so often goes on an adventure. Karate Kid has far more field experience using his abilities against a wider range of opponents. More age doesn't equal more experience.

but every single person Karnak knows is super-human

Originally posted by illadelph12
Karnak doesn't have the edge in any category, and particularly experience. Karate Kid has been on active duty on a superhero team and has faced threats from numerous supervillains and alien superhuman races across the galaxy. Karnak mostly deals in Inhuman affairs in Attilan, and every so often goes on an adventure. Karate Kid has far more field experience using his abilities against a wider range of opponents. More age doesn't equal more experience.

Karnak was in constant training through his entire life until the age of 18. He continues training constantly by doing stuff like shattering pure diamond blocks with a fingertip. Karate Kid is what, 17? And has been on the legion for a year or so. He isn't more experienced then Karnak.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Karnak was in constant training through his entire life until the age of 18. He continues training constantly by doing stuff like shattering pure diamond blocks with a fingertip. Karate Kid is what, 17? And has been on the legion for a year or so. He isn't more experienced then Karnak.

Karate Kid has been training all his life, has learned and mastered more forms of martial arts extensively, and actually uses his skills in combat against superhumans in active duty on the roster of a Superhero Team. What good is shattering diamonds that don't fight back? Karate Kid has taken down superhuman's comparable to Superman, handed Superboy his ass, taken down 3 Daxamites, beat down on alien supervillains in mechanised suits of armor the likes of Ironman, disabled speeding vehicles, punched through the hull of starships, shattered diamond cages and 30th century super dense alloys, beaten the crap out of Evolvo and other supervillains, and uses Superboy for a punching bag and sparring partner.

Punching targets and sparring is not better than hands on experience in the field. Karnak is at a loss in every facet versus Karate Kid.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Karate Kid has been training all his life, has learned and mastered more forms of martial arts extensively, and actually uses his skills in combat against superhumans in active duty on the roster of a Superhero Team. What good is shattering diamonds that don't fight back? Karate Kid has taken down superhuman's comparable to Superman, handed Superboy his ass, taken down 3 Daxamites, beat down on alien supervillains in mechanised suits of armor the likes of Ironman, disabled speeding vehicles, punched through the hull of starships, shattered diamond cages and 30th century super dense alloys, beaten the crap out of Evolvo and other supervillains, and uses Superboy for a punching bag and sparring partner.

Punching targets and sparring is not better than hands on experience in the field. Karnak is at a loss in every facet versus Karate Kid.

What issues do all this happen? I'd like to see proof that he was really handing all these guys their asses. Proof that he is really fighting them when they are fighting at 100X human speeds. Because Batman has done stuff like this too. He's fought Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martians too. None of these guys were not fighting to their fullest when he fought them. Because normal human can't get 100X human speeds, no matter how hard he/she would train.

Karate Kid isn't a normal human, he's from 1000 years in the future, and he's trained himself to the pinacle of human ability, mastering all martial arts and physical disciplines of his era.

I will provide scans (DC++ and eMule are killer applications).

Here's an early taste of Karate Kid beating down on villains in armored battle suits:

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/5808/legionaires026161cy.jpg

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9666/legionworlds05p228yl.jpg

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4584/legionworlds05p234gf.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/4291/legionworlds05p277vq.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/8936/legionworlds05p281vx.jpg

There's more to come.

Where's your proof of Karnak's fighting acumen? Does he even fight, or does he only train? He spends a majority of his time in Attilan with the other Inhumans, so he doesn't have that much variety in the people he's combatted. As a matter of fact, all you've provided is a scan of Blitzkrieg taking leaves off of a tree with a whirlwind, and Agent Zero surviving an explosion that damaged his armor and using his energy blasts in a draw with someone shooting at him.

I'm getting scans.

Here is one - Karnak easily defeats Gorgon, who is superhumanly tough and strong.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6459/karnak18rb.gif

More coming later.