Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Cable is flying around with lightning going off all over the place. He wanted to kill himself. The fact that he eventually got hit was hardly unexpected or unpredictable. Given that point you can hardly highlight this incident as an example of the amazing reaction time of his powers. His consciousness knew it was going to happen; it was just a matter of time.One thing I also find puzzling is the fact that this is Cable, and not Nate, therefore the point is irrelevant anyway. One was the result of a natural birthing process; the other was grown in a lab. Whilst genetically they may be largely the same, they are not identical; therefore the use of Cables feats to argue for Nate is not acceptable.
Reaction times can be improved with training, they are not a set in stone aspect that is determined solely by genetics, therefore even if Nate and Cable were literally the same, you still couldn’t use ones reaction time feats to speak for the other.
Yes Nate is arguably more powerful, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he had greater reaction times than the trained soldier and tactician that is Cable.
True feats can not be interchanged even among Grey and Summers, however this particular feat has nothing to do with Cables training. In fact, at this time Cable has vary limited experience controlling his powers not un-inhibited by the T.O. compared to Grey’s who double stacks with his own life time, with alternate Nates. Because Summers is not in control of his powers, he chooses to end his life by willing holding it back to get struck by lightening. Its his “gift” that saved him, in other words his vast Psy powers that expands its own neurology’s and activated on its own for survival instincts.
I deem, that Grey neurology also expanded thanks to this “Gift”. Because the “Gift”, is being regarded as the factor for Summers survival and not “Training”. I went along and deem this feat inter-changeable.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In your opinion. That aspect of his power has never translated into superhuman reaction time as far as we’ve seen on panel. Nate for instance is no Spiderman….far from it. Spiderman is no Silver Surfer. The issue here is whether or not Nate’s allegedly above average reaction time is at a level great enough for it to even be a factor in this debate. We both know there’s not an on panel feat in existence that shows that to be the case, therefore this point is non debatable.Speed blitz. Game over.
Is dat a fakt? Nate psy has never translated to superhuman reaction time?
X-Man 25 - page 20
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not so. It was Sinister who created Nate Grey. Did you hear Sinister talking about spontaneous outpourings of energy and cosmic birth or was that Dark Beast in your scan above?DB talked of how powerful Jean is, Beast went on to call her unique and DB basically said that could be changed if someone obtained a genetic sample from her.
He then calls Nate Sinister’s secret weapon a “telekinetic mutant”.
He then reiterates the point saying he has her powers. You cannot assume from that Nate literally has Jeans powers, when for all we know he’s just talking of high level telekinesis and telepathy. It is Jeans mutation to tap into the Phoenix Force. I for one have yet to have been told by Marvel that the same applies for Nate.
Until that point I think it’s safe to assume that DB just meant the same power set(tk and tp). Not literally he has her powers.
You place to much investment, in regards that a mutant can not attain the same level of power with out tapping into the force. True Nate Grey can not do all the exotic powers or apply the some of the Phoenix perks for all I care he can do muchless. It simply serves to reinforce what I have bin stating from the beginning. Nate Grey is harnessing far more power then Silver Surfer.
Lastly, in AoA the Grey Blood line inherits the Phoenix Force, thanks to its ancestor Alpha the First Mutant. Conclusively because of Grey is from AoA, and follow its mythos he should inherit the AoA Phoenix Force after AoA Jean Grey.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Moira states quite clearly, that she was going to [B]“extrapolate”. Therefore the readings she took from Nate weren’t actual levels reached or necessarily even levels Nate could reach; they were Moira making a guess at Nates potential based on what levels Nate had actually reached. She basically extended from what Nate had demonstrated to what she thought he could possibly get to.Her extrapolation placed Nate at the level recorded for the Phoenix during the Dark Phoenix Saga. Jean was powerful here, but not as powerful as she was when she healed the M’kraan crystal, and far from the level she attained as the White Phoenix of Crown.
Why? Psychic circuit breakers. [/B]
I disagree. The term “Extrapolate”, is being used to compare two values with one another. Even if Jean has Psychic Circuit Breakers on, when her energy reading where clocked. Her clocked value is far higher then Thor or Silver Surfers since the comic states its could rival Galactus.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
After Jean saved reality from the MK Crystal, she subconsciously placed psychic barriers around her power, cutting it off to a level she could easily manage:This lead to her not being able to call on her powers to defeat Warhawk in Uncanny #110
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1692
or not being able to muster the power to defeat Magneto in Uncanny 112
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1702
She didn’t know why at the time, but it was later revealed that it was psychic circuit breakers she had erected.
Why else do you think Phoenix had to consume a star for extra power when she is tapped into an infinite energy source anyway? Because her good side had capped that power, meaning she had to resort to external sources of energy to empower herself further.
So just to summarise, Nate has never been stated to be equal to Dark Phoenix. It was theorized that he was on that level potentially as shown by Moiras extrapolation.
On top of that, Moiras comments were based on a capped Phoenix anyway.
Yet one can not deny that when the Dark Phoenix persona took over, the energy reading where matched closer to a cosmic level then a top tier.
On top of that Morias comments were also based on capped Nate Grey anyway. Since Nate holds several psy inhibitions of its own took himself from going into critical mass.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
We can only go by on panel feats here. Not some unseen energy reserve he allegedly can’t use without killing himself. If that’s the case then it’s irrelevant to the match up. It has never happened. And if you want to talk of feats, Silver Surfer destroyed at once two Proemial Gods who each were the equal of Galactus as stated and demonstrated on panel.
The feat, is seen in plain sight. And he didn’t die from the ordeal. Correction, we are not using external sources to justify a feat, but under their own power. Mentioning Silver Surfer victory over the Proemial Gods, using Crunch energy is not a valid one.
Originally posted by GalacticStormAnd how entertaining would the comic have been if that happened? As clearly shown, it wasn’t his intention to kill Cable, merely steer him from his course of action and break his spirit. He dominated the fight and did so without coming close to the peak of his abilities. On top of that he has now been powered up.
Sure nice domination, over tired, and handicapped character. I would like to see how things played out if marvel inserted Shaman X-Man, only he isn’t tired, isn’t multi-tasking and with twice the power to boot.
