GS - The point is she isn’t extrapolating the boys powers. What you are trying to pitch, is that the moment she introduces the Nate Data, its already being extrapolated (predicted data). This explanation falls short, by how the sentenced is structured. She going to extrapolate, using the known data. The boys power and the phoenix data are the known data; what they can be certain about. That is why it bares no mention, of a power curve in the boys data. This is why the author says yes, his power equals the Dark Phoenix thanks to the known data.
Explanation in the order it was addressed.
1) I will extrapolate (I will make a prediction).
2) Let me introduce the known value - Holographic data is now addressed.
3) Her two cents on the boys habits, and concerns over his data.
4) The extrapolation itself (her prediction).
Because mind you, Moira only introduced a holographic chart of a known value and another chart of a known value. And simply overlapped it to show it matches one another. No mention what’s so ever of a power curve at this point.
Then you tie in potential and progression within reaching critical mass. Since according to you, when he reaches its peak levels he will go into critical mass. Which isn’t true, its not his growth of power that places himself and others in danger. Its his body, eating its self away for being unable to cope with the power. That’s why his miss-uses of power, shortens his life span. That is why he had a vision, of going into critical mass in a fight with Stryfe. That is why he went into critical mass when he released his full power, in issue 75 at age 17.
Originally posted by id369
GS - The point is she isn’t extrapolating the boys powers. What you are trying to pitch, is that the moment she introduces the Nate Data, its already being extrapolated (predicted data). This explanation falls short, by how the sentenced is structured. She going to extrapolate, using the known data. The boys power and the phoenix data are the known data; what they can be certain about. That is why it bares no mention, of a power curve in the boys data. This is why the author says yes, his power equals the Dark Phoenix thanks to the known data.Explanation in the order it was addressed.
1) I will extrapolate (I will make a prediction).
2) Let me introduce the known value - Holographic data is now addressed.
3) Her two cents on the boys habits, and concerns over his data.
4) The extrapolation itself (her prediction).Because mind you, Moira only introduced a holographic chart of a known value and another chart of a known value. And simply overlapped it to show it matches one another. No mention what’s so ever of a power curve at this point.
Not the case at all ID however you try to spin it.
Moira states quite clearly "if we extrapolate from what we know of the boys power"
In light of that, do not tell me she isnt extrapolating the boys powers.
When an interpretation clearly contradicts what stated plain as day on panel, it just isnt worth the time of day. 😬
The known value is clearly highlighted as Nates current power activity and from this a forecast is made. There is no room for misinterpretation in that line you are incorrect without a doubt.
She then says "using this holograph to illustrate it equals the most uncontainable energy that we have on record..Phoenix"
So after the extrapolation Nates predicted future power levels are found to equal Phoenixes readings and Moira has used a holograph to illustrate that point.
1) Extrapolate from Nates known power status
2)Its found these predicted levels equals the readings on record for Phoenix
3) The results are illustrated via holo-graphs.
There is no ambiguity, no room for misinterpretation. She clearly states she extrapolated from the boys power(known data). The act of extrapolation provided her with an estimated future level which she displayed with the holograph.
Let it go.
Originally posted by id369
Then you tie in potential and progression within reaching critical mass. Since according to you, when he reaches its peak levels he will go into critical mass. Which isn’t true, its not his growth of power that places himself and others in danger. Its his body, eating its self away for being unable to cope with the power. That’s why his miss-uses of power, shortens his life span. That is why he had a vision, of going into critical mass in a fight with Stryfe. That is why he went into critical mass when he released his full power, in issue 75 at age 17.
Regardless of the reason for him going into critical mass, regardless of whether the growth in his power levels was as a result of going to critical mass or just from growing up and getting more experienced it doesn't matter.
Both are levels of growth from his current levels. They are just different ways of achieving it.
Nates power levels have not reached their apex as you wrongly claimed previously, i have showed a number of scans stating the contrary.
The very fact that Moira is extrapolating shows she can see that the boys powers are growing within his body and she just wanted to predict the future levels of this growth.
She says she extrapolated from what was known of the boys power. Thats your extrapolation, i dont want to hear anymore spin because that sentence is clear cut, you have no justification to interpret it another way.
After this extrapolation, Moira then uses a holograph to illustrate that the point that these predicted values equal the readings for Phoenix recorded during the DP Saga.
Its as simple as that. No convloution present, because what i'm saying is exactly what is down on panel. I dont need to spin anything to present my preferred victor in a more favourable light.
Good debate. 👆
Once again...let it go 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStormNates power levels have not reached their apex as you wrongly claimed previously, i have showed a number of scans stating the contrary.
No where did I state, that at this point of Moira statement Nate Grey is at his limit. What I did say, is why his body will reach critical mass. As it is stated in the comic, as it is shown in the comic. So can you just stop straw mans.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not the case at all ID however you try to spin it.Moira states quite clearly "if we extrapolate from what we know of the boys power"
In light of that, do not tell me she isnt extrapolating the boys powers.
When an interpretation clearly contradicts what stated plain as day on panel, it just isnt worth the time of day. 😬
Because I am not spinning, or tossing to bend comment into my favor. You may look at it that way, since you went all up an arms the moment Nate Power in correlation with Phoenix came up and about.
And yet the definition of the word (Extrapolation), and how the comment is structures favors my explanation. Hell even by the author comments state, Nate power in referenced as calculation. While its going into critical mass as a theory. Who is contradicting who again?
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe known value is clearly highlighted as Nates current power activity and [B]from this
a forecast is made. There is no room for misinterpretation in that line you are incorrect without a doubt.
[/B]
And what is the known value? Oh that’s right, the same value which didn’t change. It never changed, no comment to follow of a power curve that you speak of. Only a statement following data comparison!?!?
Adding words, or personal comments from narration or expressed opinions only help delude yourself into thinking that “YOUR” explanation is the justified one. While I simply paid attention to everything that was said, and viewed what was showed. To the point of going the extra mile, and actually brought up author comments that express the vary same topic, from the vary page to conclude with out a further doubt of my mind, extrapolation was meant to judge Nate physical health.
Overwhelming evidence, is against you my friend.
Originally posted by GalacticStormShe then says "using this holograph to illustrate it equals the most uncontainable energy that we have on record..Phoenix"
So after the extrapolation Nates predicted future power levels are found to equal Phoenixes readings and Moira has used a holograph to illustrate that point.
This is your confusion, since you believe the data was extrapolated. That the extrapolated comment is dedicated to Nate’s data in comparison to the Phoenix. This isn’t so, its Nates and Phoenix data is cohesive data from what they extrapolate. Big Difference, I would concede if the comment such as “could, would, eventually” etc.. and so on where found.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThere is no ambiguity, no room for misinterpretation. She clearly states she extrapolated from the boys power(known data). The act of extrapolation provided her with an estimated future level which she displayed with the holograph.
Let it go.
We cant be certain of this, lets extrapolate from what we know. Ok lets make a prediction from what you know, what do we know? The boys power equals the Phoenix.
Visual aid is provided. Data A , Data B. If we overlap them, look see it equals one another.
It’s the known data!?!?
Ok then what’s the prediction? He will eventually reach critical mass, we don’t know when and how much it will effect.
Does Nate TK really equal the Phoenix.
Author: According to Moira’s calculations yes.
Author: According, to Morias theory he will not live past 21.
Calculations are the “Known Data“.
Theory is the “Extrapolated” comment.
Originally posted by GalacticStormRegardless of the reason for him going into critical mass, regardless of whether the growth in his power levels was as a result of going to critical mass or just from growing up and getting more experienced it doesn't matter.
Both are levels of growth from his current levels. They are just different ways of achieving it.
Then why are you affiliating going critical mass, with achieving full potential? Oh yeah that’s right, because you added your own theory of how extrapolation of his power, ties into possible growth, that ties into eventually reaching critical mass. Which ties into when he reaches critical mass, was his apex which might be the phoenix level.
But wait, he can go into critical mass if he unleashes his full energy now (as it is shown)? For every big move, he shorten his life span. Why because the energy is eating away his body, that is the reason why he will go into critical mass. No just the progression of power increment, you have to remember that by the Shaman era his progression of power increment will no longer effect prolongivity thanks the X-Brand that allows his body cope with the every day stress his power places on him.
Originally posted by GalacticStormNates power levels have not reached their apex as you wrongly claimed previously, i have showed a number of scans stating the contrary.
Again putting words in my mouth. I never stated he reached his apex ever. I said, the reason why he did bigger feats was mostly due to his learning curve. We don’t have a counter dial, to show us how his power incremented over time. Yet we do know that, for all his power it means vary little if he has no knowledge on how to harness it.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe very fact that Moira is extrapolating shows she can see that the boys powers are growing within his body and she just wanted to predict the future levels of this growth.
She says she extrapolated from what was known of the boys power. Thats your extrapolation, i dont want to hear anymore spin because that sentence is clear cut, you have no justification to interpret it another way.
Your explanation is wrong, she wants to make an extrapolated comment using known data. Hence the reason why she explains the data, and ends with a prediction.
Originally posted by GalacticStormAfter this extrapolation, Moira then uses a holograph to illustrate that the point that these predicted values equal the readings for Phoenix recorded during the DP Saga.
Its as simple as that. No convloution present, because what i'm saying is exactly what is down on panel. I dont need to spin anything to present my preferred victor in a more favourable light.
I am not taking anything out of sentenced. I am not adding an explanation, from previous narration or expressed opinions. Yet the ambiguity of continuing to express these comments going outside of Moiras own explanation adds more ambiguity. Hell the fact, that so much investment is concentrated on Phoenix in relation to Nates power, over the topic itself (X-Man vs. Surfer) adds more ambiguity.
Not ambiguity from the comments stated in the comic itself, but from the poster quoting them. At this point, just how much value should I or any member place in your words?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Good debate. 👆Once again...let it go 😬
The only comment I made was Nate contains more power then Silver Surfer. Because Moiras comment, because of his feat overloading an Elder Beast, because Onslaughts comment, Because of Apocalypse comment in the twelve, because of the Author comment in relation to Moira comment, Because of the authors comment in comparison to Franklin Richards power.
The one that is strung up on the entire extrapolation/phoenix/nate/power subject is you. Maybe you should follow your own advice.
But hey, if you are all bent up on getting the last comment in. If that makes you happy, if that his how a debate should be ended. Its cool, I have my answer from a non bias third party. To continue with you, would only mean circular logic and nothing new is being brought up just a rinse and repeat cycle.
I do think members can get lost, with Moira comment. But I certainly think the extrapolation is in regards to prediction and not the data itself.
It really does not matter, since the known data from both parts is not accurate. Its not showing their apex, one for Phoenix having to go out and reach out an energy supply to replenish itself. The other is because Nate has define limits, because of his own inhibitions that keep characters from getting an accurate reading (reference from Reed Richards) . The other is because, his power is incrementing.
But I do think, the data serves to show where both stand at the time their power was recorded. And both where dangerously high. Higher then say Thor or Silver Surfer’s energy level. That is all.
Originally posted by id369We cant be certain of this, lets extrapolate from what we know. Ok lets make a prediction from what you know, what do we know? The boys power equals the Phoenix.
Visual aid is provided. Data A , Data B. If we overlap them, look see it equals one another.
It’s the known data!?!?
The problem with this is that the sentence structure does not favor your interpretation. In fact it contradicts it.
Moira never said the boys power equals Phoenix, lets highlight this with a holograph and extrapolate from this that Nates going to reach critical mass. Thats in complete contradiction to the order of her statements.
What she knew was Nates current power activity. She stated "if we extrapolate from what we know of the boys power"
The known data is what readings she has on record for Nate. Based on her observations of his power activity she made a prediction on his future power levels.
"using this holograph to illustrate it equals the most uncontainable energy that we have on record..Phoenix"
The predicted levels matched the readings on record for Dark Phoenix and the results were visually depicted via holo-graphs.
Plain and simple. No need for me to ignore sentence structure in an effort to justify my fantasies.
Originally posted by id369
Ok then what’s the prediction? He will eventually reach critical mass, we don’t know when and how much it will effect.Does Nate TK really equal the Phoenix.
Author: According to Moira’s calculations yes.Author: According, to Morias theory he will not live past 21.
Calculations are the “Known Data“.
Theory is the “Extrapolated” comment.
The known data was specified as what is known of Nates power. This was extrapolated from as Moira stated and she next said that it equals Phoenix. She never said that Nates power equals Phoenix, let me illustrate with a graph, based on this he will eventually go into critical mass.
Your interpretation does not fit in with the way the sentence is structured. What is the point in sentence structure existing if people are going to play hop-scotch all over a statement and pick and choose the order that they're going to follow it in? 😬
Originally posted by id369
Then why are you affiliating going critical mass, with achieving full potential? Oh yeah that’s right, because you added your own theory of how extrapolation of his power, ties into possible growth, that ties into eventually reaching critical mass. Which ties into when he reaches critical mass, was his apex which might be the phoenix level.But wait, he can go into critical mass if he unleashes his full energy now (as it is shown)? For every big move, he shorten his life span. Why because the energy is eating away his body, that is the reason why he will go into critical mass. No just the progression of power increment, you have to remember that by the Shaman era his progression of power increment will no longer effect prolongivity thanks the X-Brand that allows his body cope with the every day stress his power places on him.
The only reason i referred to critical mass at all was because you went off on a tangent about it when we were breaking down the Moira scene. I was never equating him going critical mass to him reaching his full potential. My point was that whether the scene was referring to Nate going into critical mass or the eventual growth of his power over time(which was feared would risk critical mass anyway) it does not matter. There was room for growth in power output which was something you initially denied and Moiras exercise in extrapolation illustrated that point.
Originally posted by id369
I do think members can get lost, with Moira comment. But I certainly think the extrapolation is in regards to prediction and not the data itself.
If the sentence was structured differently then yes your interpretation would be understandable. However given its structure and the order of the steps Moira details...it is not.
It is great that we're all so passionate about these comics. Its sometimes hard for all of us to find a balance between debator and fanboy. The way i see it is if your interpretation means you're asking people to ignore whats clearly stated on panel and the way its clearly stated on panel then its likely you need to go back to the drawing board 😬
Originally posted by id369
It really does not matter, since the known data from both parts is not accurate. Its not showing their apex, one for Phoenix having to go out and reach out an energy supply to replenish itself. The other is because Nate has define limits, because of his own inhibitions that keep characters from getting an accurate reading (reference from Reed Richards) . The other is because, his power is incrementing.But I do think, the data serves to show where both stand at the time their power was recorded. And both where dangerously high. Higher then say Thor or Silver Surfer’s energy level. That is all.
True. It all really doesn't matter anyway because Nate died before he performed consistent Silver Surfer level feats and thats all this comes down to. You've agreed that Silver Surfer takes the match so there's no need to continue this debate.
Cool 😉
