Originally posted by olympian
Edit:Oly- I said combat speed. Not flying speed. Speedblitz type attacks. Your not trying to tell, Supes -usually- speedblitz at high speeds in combat and at this level, are you?
I can't tell you how fast Superman fights 🙁 I've seen him speedblitz and Imperiex Probe, Tempest with a pressure point, Mongul, some wierd monster, a city of enemies, etc. I'm not saying he fights at lightspeed, just fast.
How fast does Goku fight?
Originally posted by olympian
"No need, I put it up along with the planet exploding in the respect forum, nowhere does it show Supes getting out in time"Oly- Of course not. Only him -already out- when the explosion happened 😉
-just- that. Be my guess. Post it.
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"and the pic shows him being flung by the FORCE of the EXPLOSION itself."
Oly- Correct. And is it the same as being caugh IN the explosion? Goku did similiar with the explosions in those scans.
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"It's obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about "
Oly- Appearantly the writer doesnt know either, because he didnt wrote the scene -you- first described.
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"Aside from the movie, which isn't cannon, no he can't. He only did this around Cell and Buu once. He doesn't just start teleporting whenever he wants."
Oly- The scans show otherwise. Especially the fight with Cell. And also more than one version of Buu. Even against Freeza elite guard he was already doing stuff -alike-. Around the area he can teleport /speedblitz and attack.
And yeah he could only do it against Cell and Buu. He learned it after the Freeza saga and those two wer the last sagas...
- - -
"Or maybe they're not as fast as you say they are."
Oly- What i said its correct. Buu was faster than them. How much? Thats another thing. How fast you think Gotenks was when he did those laps around the world in no time, with Picollo on his track?. I consider it top tier fast wich is enough to handle Superman with his other abilities.
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"Stil haven't seen anything Goku has done that Superman hasn't speed wise. Unless you provide a speed feat that shows Goku going somewhere or doing something Superman couldn't do, he is simply not faster. "
Oly- I said combat speeds. Not flying speed. Speedblitz type attacks. Supes -usually- doesnt speedblitz at high speeds in combat and at this level.
I havent seen him doing impressive stuff in that regard.
- - -
"Superman doesn't need to have pre-crisis levels to survive the ki blasts. Black holes, supernovas, galaxy destroying maggeddon, 1 million nuclear bombs, etc."
Oly- What blast of Maggedon he took? Futhermore, no he doesnt.
Surviving those and still be in top shape to fight someone with that raw power its something else. Or surviving several attacks of this nature, we`ve seen that with only one attack more than one of these guys, could at least have destroyed the Earth.
- - -
"I think all the evidence speaks for itself, anyone impartial to both these characters (not a fanboy to either) can easily see that Supes is on a whole different level above."
Oly- Except all evidence shows hes not nearly as powerful. Hes stronger yes. Faster flying wise yes. But not -better- combat wise, even with speed involved. Neither close as skilled. This last one its his second biggest disavantage.
If this was just a strenght contest id chose Superman. A speed race, id chose Superman. An all out powers allowed contest, i dont favor him at all.
Chosing Superman who doesnt have this raw power based on strenght and speed alone is more biased than you claim me to be, chump. 🏴☠️
Then again perhaps you would be someone who would favor Kal even against Thor and Surfer with all theyr abilities for use.
So in other words, you still don't have evidence madam?
The scene has been posted since the beginning. Pity you can't understand it. and Ummmm, Supes has already beaten Thor, but then again, you'll still whine about that. 😄
PS. Thor can beat Goku as well.
Avalon, your posts are full with nothing but lame comments.
The maggedon scan you keep showing doenst have him taking blasts. And certainly not one after the other. How many planet type blasts you think he can take before he does down? Thats the least they can give him.
How many above? Get out of here 😄
Supes beat Thor yes. But since you didnt read properly again, i said :
"Then again perhaps you would be someone who would favor Kal even against Thor and Surfer with all theyr abilities for use. "
What abilities and powers Thor used, other than making Mjolnir a blunt weapon and....well. What else?
Superman doesnt have the raw power to beat Thor. And Thor its one of the top tier guys who can beat Goku because he has such raw power.
And even. More versability. AND skills. Something Superman lacks in an impressive note.
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"Speaking of Silver Surfer, most of his speed feats are traveling light years and reacting in nanoseconds. I've only seen one combat speed feat, and he is only flying around in a circle faster than light and blasting somebody. Does that mean Goku beats him in combat speed?"
Oly- I dont see that as an actual combat speed feat. Combat speed, its actually figthing someone. Trading punches, kicks, then yes -also- blasting. The whole thing.
Now if you do, then majority wise? No. Especially since Surfer power wise its even above and has more versability on his side.
Originally posted by olympianOly- I said combat speed. Not flying speed. Speedblitz type attacks. Your not trying to tell, Supes -usually- speedblitz at high speeds in combat and at this level, are you?
"The anime had the same scene and Gotenks's nap wasn't that long. He's Mach 632(480,900 mi/hr)."
Oly- Im talking about the Manga. It all happens in an instant. Including the laps, Picollo after them and the nap. And Gotens even claiming he was waiting for him.
If it happened in an instant, he is only 1/8 the speed of light. He flew around the earth, then took a nap for an unknown period of time. Piccolo came and said he had five minutes. By the time Gotenks came to Buu's house, he diffused. The same thing happened in the anime. He's still Mach 632, which pales to Superman's speed feats.
"Can you tell me exactly how fast they are going in combat? That's why it's pointless to say they are faster when feats prove otherwise."Oly- Several ways faster than a second the very -least-. Roshi and Krillin did that in the beginning of the whole Dragonball saga. One second. No one saw. Several moves. (and it wasent just 5 moves each or something like that).
They -have- to be levels faster than that considering, they totally eclipsed those first long by levels. And even before raditz showed up.
Clark in Smallville disappears all the time. He moves faster than the human eye can see. He can throw a football, tackle a terrorist, uncuff the hostage, and come back to the football that hasn't moved an inch. I can't tell you how much time passed, but I can tell you that nobody knew and the football didn't move while it was in the air.
Superman can hear a bullet, get cotton, fly and stop the bullet, and stuff cotton in people's ears so they won't get deaf from the sonic boom.
Clark is not faster than light and he is not faster than Superman. Moving faster than the eye can see is not good evidence for being faster than Superman. You have not proven that Goku's combat speed is beyond Superman's comprehension other than it appearing repeatedly throughout the series.
Originally posted by olympian
Avalon, your posts are full with nothing but lame comments.The maggedon scan you keep showing doenst have him taking blasts. And certainly not one after the other. How many planet type blasts you think he can take before he does down? Thats the least they can give him.
How many above? Get out of here 😄
Supes beat Thor yes. But since you didnt read properly again, i said :
"Then again perhaps you would be someone who would favor Kal even against Thor and Surfer with all theyr abilities for use. "
What abilities and powers Thor used, other than making Mjolnir a blunt weapon and....well. What else?
Superman doesnt have the raw power to beat Thor. And Thor its one of the top tier guys who can beat Goku because he has such raw power.
And even. More versability. AND skills. Something Superman lacks in an impressive note.
- - -
"Speaking of Silver Surfer, most of his speed feats are traveling light years and reacting in nanoseconds. I've only seen one combat speed feat, and he is only flying around in a circle faster than light and blasting somebody. Does that mean Goku beats him in combat speed?"
Oly- I dont see that as an actual combat speed feat. Combat speed, its actually figthing someone. Trading punches, kicks, then yes -also- blasting. The whole thing.
Now if you do, then majority wise? No. Especially since Surfer power wise its even above and has more versability on his side.
That's what happens when you jumble everything together in a paragraph. You bore the reader and thus, aren't taken seriously.
Either way... you haven't brought anything to your end of the debate besides insults and speculation.
Supes beat Thor... Period. Get over it.
Just like either will beat Goku. 🙂
Originally posted by Blue nocturne
I'm not sure if goku is faster then superman but I have an idea, at a powerlevel of 10 goku cleared 100 meters at 8.5 seconds, so I'm sure we can calculate his speed.
Goku, after his training on King Kai's planet was Mach 18. His exact speed in the Buu saga is unknown and cannot be calculated.
Originally posted by Blue nocturne
I'm not sure if goku is faster then superman but I have an idea, at a powerlevel of 10 goku cleared 100 meters at 8.5 seconds, so I'm sure we can calculate his speed.
I don't think anyone thinks Goku is slow Nocturne, but Supes has already shown to be able to travel far faster that light speed, and be able to battle at speed beyond light speed.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I don't think anyone thinks Goku is slow Nocturne, but Supes has already shown to be able to travel far faster that light speed, and be able to battle at speed beyond light speed.
But on earth he can move 99% the speed of light,But I don't think there faster then the speed of light.
"Tell me Oly, do you believe Goku would be able to take Superman's Heat Vision?"
Full? No. He doesnt need either, he always zaps around avoiding high blasts as part of his figthing skills. If he couldnt do that at all, Superman would have one great advantage. Id say that right away.
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"If it happened in an instant, he is only 1/8 the speed of light. He flew around the earth, then took a nap for an unknown period of time. Piccolo came and said he had five minutes. By the time Gotenks came to Buu's house, he diffused. The same thing happened in the anime. He's still Mach 632, which pales to Superman's speed feats."
How about the first time he fused, went to fight Buu, got beat up and came back in an instant as well? Not faster than Superman, no. Neither equal. But good enough to fight him.
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"Clark is not faster than light and he is not faster than Superman. Moving faster than the eye can see is not good evidence for being faster than Superman. You have not proven that Goku's combat speed is beyond Superman's comprehension other than it appearing repeatedly throughout the series"
-Combat speed- its what they always do. Its what Superman was first trained at by Mongul`s son. Its speedblitz. Its kicking, punching, reacting to the opponent, moving, blocking, blasting, -everything- at high speeds. All that.
I dont say Goku will be faster for Superman to comprehend.
I say Goku and the others to the same extent are better at using speeds in combat as a tool than Superman is. And dare i say: ever was. Superman only started being more like that post crisis, with Loeb around. That was recent history.
These guys wer already going faster than the second in the first levels - while figthing. Superman in that regard isent impressive.
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"Supes beat Thor... Period. Get over it.
Just like either will beat Goku"
You mean: having nothing to refute the scans already showed, and some "proof" you claimed was exagerated? So wich powers he used again, besides strength? I knew you wouldnt aknowleged it.
That would be admitting Thor lost in a strength for strength match, rougly equal without use of his other abilities, while Kal had to resort to a close range HV. Luckly, anyone who has read it, knows the answer.
Power-wise, Kal falls short in comparation.
Im done with you and your own inventive interpretations. We can all read the book that actually gets out in print. Carry on.
Femi, ive actually been putting some though on it. Regarding your question here:
"Tell me Oly, do you believe Goku would be able to take Superman's Heat Vision?"
Full? No. He doesnt need either, he always zaps around avoiding high blasts as part of his figthing skills. If he couldnt do that at all, Superman would have one great advantage. Id say that right away."
Now..
My first instinct was to say no. But how powerful would a usual HV blast be? Thor waved thro it, and even he was weakned. Its hotter than the sun, correct?
The DB guys have stuff that add to that makes me wonder. Goku as a kid, was together with Picollo Daimao (the father) in the center of the blast that destroyed the city they wer figthing.
Nappa when arriving Earth, with a flick of his fingers zapped the city they wer in and both him and Vejita wer in the very eye of the explosion. One that was seen miles away.
They wer unschatched.
Picollo waved destruction thro the island where he faced C-17. He was also caught iirc.
Since Vegeta on Earth, they have gone against earth busting blasts, and managing to counter those with theyr own.
So asking here. How high you view the durability of the DB guys? Lower than Earth destroying blast id say, considering they just dont stand there and take it at that level, but how much.
Considering Superman power wise isent a planet destroying type (until they get in back to pc levels) how -destructive- can a HV blast of him be? -Regular- wise.
And how sucesseful would they be able to counter with theyr own blasts.
Originally posted by olympian
"Tell me Oly, do you believe Goku would be able to take Superman's Heat Vision?"Full? No. He doesnt need either, he always zaps around avoiding high blasts as part of his figthing skills. If he couldnt do that at all, Superman would have one great advantage. Id say that right away.
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"If it happened in an instant, he is only 1/8 the speed of light. He flew around the earth, then took a nap for an unknown period of time. Piccolo came and said he had five minutes. By the time Gotenks came to Buu's house, he diffused. The same thing happened in the anime. He's still Mach 632, which pales to Superman's speed feats."
How about the first time he fused, went to fight Buu, got beat up and came back in an instant as well? Not faster than Superman, no. Neither equal. But good enough to fight him.
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"Clark is not faster than light and he is not faster than Superman. Moving faster than the eye can see is not good evidence for being faster than Superman. You have not proven that Goku's combat speed is beyond Superman's comprehension other than it appearing repeatedly throughout the series"
-Combat speed- its what they always do. Its what Superman was first trained at by Mongul`s son. Its speedblitz. Its kicking, punching, reacting to the opponent, moving, blocking, blasting, -everything- at high speeds. All that.
I dont say Goku will be faster for Superman to comprehend.
I say Goku and the others to the same extent are better at using speeds in combat as a tool than Superman is. And dare i say: ever was. Superman only started being more like that post crisis, with Loeb around. That was recent history.
These guys wer already going faster than the second in the first levels - while figthing. Superman in that regard isent impressive.
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"Supes beat Thor... Period. Get over it.
Just like either will beat Goku"You mean: having nothing to refute the scans already showed, and some "proof" you claimed was exagerated? So wich powers he used again, besides strength? I knew you wouldnt aknowleged it.
That would be admitting Thor lost in a strength for strength match, rougly equal without use of his other abilities, while Kal had to resort to a close range HV. Luckly, anyone who has read it, knows the answer.
Power-wise, Kal falls short in comparation.
Im done with you and your own inventive interpretations. We can all read the book that actually gets out in print. Carry on.
Actuly picoolo said gotenks has less than a minuit before defussing
Originally posted by dvampire
Superman is greater than Goku in both, flight and fighting/reflexive speeds and uses his speed in all types of ways, not just in fighting. Superman has a thousands years of battle experince, that out beats Goku's whole life time of training and was trained by DC's best, not to mention he's always fighting in battle. IT is just a teleport, not his actual speed, that technique won't be much help in a fight against someone who's going to be attacking.Goku in the Buu saga had to go ssj to lift 40 tons (which is nothing to Superman) and struggled to push a moutain apart in ssj2 (which was his highest strength feat btw); Goku's punches won't be enough to stop Superman, especially since he's been hit by far stronger beings (some couldn't even move him when they hit him). And it was never stated that the planet had 10x gravity either.
Superman's Heat Vision is hotter than stars (which is overkill if used on ssj3 Goku) and he used it to reheat Earth too; and his ice Breath froze an entire planets brain (he can also shoot his Ice Breath out like an Ice Beam). Kid Buu destroyed Earth by charging up his blast (and the blast was very slow btw), not with a simple "KI" blast. Superman could KO ssj3 Goku with a punch, melt him Heat Vision (which Goku won't be able to block and Superman could easily just stand over him while Goku fries in it), Superman could fry ssj3 Goku's brain, Freeze Goku and then use the methods I just written, or suck all of the air out of ssj3 Goku; and that's not even thinking about bringing the fight to space where Goku can't breath either.
Superman wins!
Superman wins! 🙂
DBZ characters cant take physical beatings very well. This has been shown time and time again. I could bring up how Goku was on the ground after one slap into a rock from Ape Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga, I could bring up how Frieza physically beat the crap out of Vegita and others in only a few punches and a smash into the ground (didnt even leave a big creator in the ground). Heck, there are tons of times when DBZ guys are hurt by only a few punches from someone stronger then them, but lets skip to later on since we all know they were much stronger later on.
Here is the entire Z-cast being beat badly from Cell Jrs. useing purely physical force and strength, they did not use a single Ki beam. Cell full power did not show one strength feat on the order even close to Superman so you think his Cell Jrs. were as strong as Superman?
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5590/db34pg1554jx.gif
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4075/db34pg1566jv.gif
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/9273/db34pg1575jo.gif
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/3425/db34pg1580cg.gif
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2258/db34pg1592os.gif
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/5269/db34pg1607xo.gif
Now how about Supreme Kai's supreme beat down at the hands of fat buu? Notice the size of the impact crater that Kai is laying in yet he was badly hurt by it. That kinda impact power is nothing compared to what Superman can do. Plus Buu's smash looks like nothing compared to Superman's orbital smash, Buu's didnt even leave damage to the ground under Kai.
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1279/db39ch033903131lv.gif
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/9404/db39ch043904019ls.gif
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/4516/db39ch043904046mb.gif
Then how about SSJ Gohan's fear of being hit by one of the rocks Goten is throwing at him. Notice the damage the rock caused to the rock behind Gohan, again the damage is nothing to what Superman can do with a punch. (this can also show speed, Gohan could barely dodge it when he wasnt expecting it and even when he was expecting it he had to adjust to the speed before he had Goten move closer. For this to make sence with what somebody keep saying about them being able to doge things going light speed, Goten would have had to been throwing those rocks at a significat portion of light speed. Due to the damage done when the rocks hit this is hardly the case.)
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7034/db36ch073607025ht.gif
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/6031/db36ch073607030zy.gif
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/1308/db36ch073607048yo.gif
Then there are the tireing issues, Superman can fight for weeks, Goku is limited to a very short time in comparison. And to all those who say that Goku's martial arts skill will make it so Superman never lands a punch, may I point out that Buu had absolutely no martial arts skill at all, he was closer to a Hulk type fight with Smash and Bash technics then aything else. Cell also had a pretty sloppy fighting style, he relied on more power then technique. Also the andriods had next to no martial arts. Vegeta, Raditz, and Nappa had no MAs training, they just seem to show up Earth and start punching and kicking, there was nothing stating that they knew MAs.
Originally posted by olympian
"Tell me Oly, do you believe Goku would be able to take Superman's Heat Vision?"Full? No. He doesnt need either, he always zaps around avoiding high blasts as part of his figthing skills. If he couldnt do that at all, Superman would have one great advantage. Id say that right away.
- - -
"If it happened in an instant, he is only 1/8 the speed of light. He flew around the earth, then took a nap for an unknown period of time. Piccolo came and said he had five minutes. By the time Gotenks came to Buu's house, he diffused. The same thing happened in the anime. He's still Mach 632, which pales to Superman's speed feats."
How about the first time he fused, went to fight Buu, got beat up and came back in an instant as well? Not faster than Superman, no. Neither equal. But good enough to fight him.
- - -
"Clark is not faster than light and he is not faster than Superman. Moving faster than the eye can see is not good evidence for being faster than Superman. You have not proven that Goku's combat speed is beyond Superman's comprehension other than it appearing repeatedly throughout the series"
-Combat speed- its what they always do. Its what Superman was first trained at by Mongul`s son. Its speedblitz. Its kicking, punching, reacting to the opponent, moving, blocking, blasting, -everything- at high speeds. All that.
I dont say Goku will be faster for Superman to comprehend.
I say Goku and the others to the same extent are better at using speeds in combat as a tool than Superman is. And dare i say: ever was. Superman only started being more like that post crisis, with Loeb around. That was recent history.
These guys wer already going faster than the second in the first levels - while figthing. Superman in that regard isent impressive.
- - -
"Supes beat Thor... Period. Get over it.
Just like either will beat Goku"You mean: having nothing to refute the scans already showed, and some "proof" you claimed was exagerated? So wich powers he used again, besides strength? I knew you wouldnt aknowleged it.
That would be admitting Thor lost in a strength for strength match, rougly equal without use of his other abilities, while Kal had to resort to a close range HV. Luckly, anyone who has read it, knows the answer.
Power-wise, Kal falls short in comparation.
Im done with you and your own inventive interpretations. We can all read the book that actually gets out in print. Carry on.
Done? You couldn't even begin while coming up with your OWN interpretation (they guy lost..get over it.) You keep living in your dream world.
The rest of us can clearly see Supes is stronger.
This is for DVAMPIRE. You're a FU#@ING idiot. You don't know what you're talking about. You are ignorant. Do you even watch DBZ? You're lost buddy. I think even comparing Superman and Goku is blasphemous. You look soooooo stupid with the replies you have in this thread. Just stop dude. Goku in every way is better than Superman. And Buu was an entity of evil. Buu had no martial arts? Are you crazy? You've got to be the stupidest person in the world. I bet you've never even watched DBZ... You're a moron. YOU WANT PROOF? YOU WATCH DBZ FROM START TO FINISH, AND IF YOU WANT TO REALLY BLOW YOUR MIND.....YOU WATCH DBGT. These warriors are 1000 times stronger than "the man of steel" Superman was killed by Doomsday and Goku would wipe his ass with Doomsday.
DVAMPIRE<------RETARD
