GOKU and SUPERMAN

Originally posted by olympian
More gems coming up:

"Superman has a thousands years of battle experince, that out beats Goku's whole life time of training"

Oly- Wait, wait. We have here a statement about more experienced figthers? So i assume you belive Thor and Hercules to being that better than Superman? oh oh!

- - -

"and was trained by DC's best"

Oly- Who? Richard Dragon? If he wasent then he wasent trained by the best.

- - -

"not to mention he's always fighting in battle."

Oly- Yeah hes suposse to. Its what you do in a....battle.

- - -

"IT is just a teleport, not his actual speed, that technique won't be much help in a fight against someone who's going to be attacking"

Oly- It allows him to be faster. Thats enough.

Attacking someone who will teleport anywhere....? Interesting concept.

- - -

"and struggled to push a moutain apart in ssj2 (which was his highest strength feat btw"

Oly- And here i will ask you. In what level would YOU put that one. I ask on another way. You see Thing, whos below the top tier, pulling that one?

You see Colossus who according to some here, its full class 100 to pull that one?

Mountain feat are top tier. It weights hundreds of tons. And he didnt just pushed it. He was buried with it and pull it apart in two. Thats top tier.

- - -

"Kid Buu destroyed Earth by charging up his blast (and the blast was very slow btw), not with a simple "KI" blast. "

Oly- He raised one of his hands and blow it with a single attack. You cant have it more easy with that.

- - -

"Superman could KO ssj3 Goku with a punch"

Oly- Hmmm. Captain Marvel style or easier? This is fun 👿

No. I'm just saying that Superman isn't an amature when it comes to fighting.

He was trained by Mongul II, Batman, and WW. He even start to use it against Zod (which he stats himself that he had training from both of them).

Which means he's never rusty in combat since he's always fighting. 🙂

Yeah it allows him to teleport right in front of a punch, that move will just be a waste of energy.

Supeman has fought people that was class 100 and they still weren't able to move him and they were stornger than ssj3 Goku. And Goku stuggles to push it, not lift it btw.

He raised his arm to charge up the blast, Goku even had time to shoot KI blasts at it, plus the blast was very slow; Superman could do alot damge to him during that time.

Yep, one punch could pretty much end the fight, ssj3 is going to be in alot more pain when hit by Superman then he was against Buu! ✅

Originally posted by olympian
"You can cry all you want. Feel free. I won't laugh at you.
Oh, and the beams were "atom smashing"..you can't get much stronger than that"

Oly- Finished bitching? Good.

- - -

"Boom...Supes is hurled through space. If you can't see it."

Oly- I can see however that the professor he was talking with, warned him about the explosion and he got out of there the fast he could.

You see, your reasoning works, against who didnt -read- the issue.

- - -

"Getting caught in a planetary explosion even if you are NEXT to the planet (or wherever you claim Supes was) is still a feat. Goku would have died in the same situation."

Oly- So we saw him getting out or not? Stretching things again?

Sure its a feat. Just not as big as being caugh on a planet busting explosion. How can you even measure the distance he was?

And Goku has been near planet busting blasts too. You dont see me counting it as a feat as big as being caugh -in- one.

However by your logic, hmmmm.....

- - -

"A full fight to the sun and back in under 2 minutes, and you are disputing that? Has Goku done the same? If so, proof would be nice. I would enjoy the read."

Oly- See above.

WW falling into Earth its not figthing at FTLS. Its not combat speed either. Hulk and Warlock did the same. Do they have superspeed combat ability of the type also?

Goku has done better regarding to pure speed only. Teleporting you know.

Nice try indeed.

- - -

"More uber than a weapon that destroys gods and is a universal threat, the general of gods army, a being who can alter realities on a whim, and a high class matter manipulator? "

Oly- Oui mademoiselle. Buu. killed. Gods. Destroyed. Planets. survives. without. Any. Harm.

Universal threat right there.

That alter reality being would be who? Someone like Imperiex that did nothing more than getting his ass kicked? Shame. Couldnt even conquer Earth.

- - -

"IT is not the same as light speed fighting."

Oly- Neither its just flying. Zing.

Botton line. And regarding to both: combat speed its all Goku. His all stich its that one. And regarding to strenght, Supes has the advantage but not a major one. SJ2 Goku its top tier in that.

- - -

"I'll take a break"

Oly- Promiss ?

Blah blah... No scans/proof and now you're back to a long typed mess madam.
What I did read, was wrong as usual. If teleporting= speed in your world, then I see why you're all off on this.
AND it's "Promise" 😉

Predictable.🙂

Originally posted by Magee
Flight speed is not the same as fighting speed. Goku is on a whole other level compared to Superman in agility, speed and reflexes. Goku has trained in MA since about 7yrs old and is far more experienced than Superman. Goku can also move ftl speed using instant transmision, which in the Japanese versions/mangas mean instant movement (light speed).

I may have to agree that Superman is stronger but Goku is no lightweight. Before the Buu saga goku was training with 40ton weights (as stated by the kai) on all 4 four limbs, thats 4x40=180 tons, in his normal stage. He then says to the kai that if he went SS1 it would be far to easy (also under 10x earth gravity).

Now Supermans heat vision, ice breath etc are nifty tricks when compared to Goku's raw power. In Ssj3 mode Goku can easily destroy a planet (Comparative to Kid Buu who effortlessly destroyed the earth and was later found to be on the same power scale as Goku) and send multiple nuke force blasts his way, all the while effortlessly avoiding all of Supermans physical attacks.

Goku wins 8/10

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/index.php?folder=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume36/Db36ch08/&page=0

Goku had 10 ton weights on each limb and nobody said the planet had 10x gravity. Unless Goku has a speed feat that is above Superman's, he is simply not faster. You cannot fight at light speed and move slower than light. It's not possible. Instant transmission works by locking onto a ki source, then teleporting. It is not true teleportation like Darkseid or Galactus.

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch06/420611.gif

As far as MA is concerned, Goku has more training, but Superman has more experience. 1000 to be exact. He's no slouch. Superman can vibrate through all of Goku's ki attacks. If he got caught, he would still be standing tall. He has taken a lot of punishment.

Regarding WW and Superman's fight, Superman choked her from the earth to the sun in no time. She pulled out kryptonite, only to get punched from the sun to the earth. She blacked out from the attack and didn't wake up until she entered the atmosphere. They fought some more on earth. All of that under two minutes. Light can't do that.

Oh, and heat vision will kill Goku. Its hotter than the sun. Ice breath defeated the cannibal planet. I don't think ice breath will kill Goku, it will just slow him down.

Oh, and Goku cannot teleport anywhere and everywhere.

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch07/420704.gif

That was a great DBZ site Femi. I've been reading the manga straight through and see the DBZ powers have been WELL exaggerated.

Almost all the "Z" warriors died when Buu blew up the earth.
None could fly off planet in time...

and a whole lot of power needed to be "borrowed..."

..and it took a LOT of time...

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume42/Db42ch13/421306.gif

People keep saying Goku is a faster fighter when his exact fighting speed and traveling speed is unknown. If I pull out a scan with Superman fighting an Imperiex probe or fighting Mongul, people will say you don't know how fast Superman is fighting. The same can be said for Goku. Repeating the same speed fighting sequence since the beginning of DBZ does not make you faster than Superman or light, especially when the DBZ people lack the feats to back up their speed.

Clark in Smalliville moves faster than the eye can see. He can speedblitz a phone out of someone's hands before they know it, he can shake your soda before you open it and before you know it. He can even douse fires without you seeing it and he can throw a football, save someone who is chained up, and return to the football that hasn't even moved an inch without anyone knowing it! Raindrops are frozen to him via bullet time. That does not mean he is faster than light.

Superman can hear a bullet miles away, get cotton, find the bullet and stop it, then stuff cotton in people's ears so they won't go deaf from the sonic boom. That's more than travelling from point a to b. Then there's the FTL feats from the Earth to the Sun and from Earth to Jupiter

Superman is fast with plenty of feats to back it up. Either find a feat where Goku has gone faster without IT or admit you don't know his speed. At SSJ 3, Goku is probably light speed. That's just a guess, anyway.

Flash is faster than Superman. Here's a scan.

[img=http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/1843/flash99mi.th.jpg]

Wow, Femi, thats a freakin awesome site for DB/DBZ...

Crazy..

Good stuff, Thanks..

Originally posted by Femi32
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/index.php?folder=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume36/Db36ch08/&page=0

Goku had 10 ton weights on each limb and nobody said the planet had 10x gravity. Unless Goku has a speed feat that is above Superman's, he is simply not faster. You cannot fight at light speed and move slower than light. It's not possible. Instant transmission works by locking onto a ki source, then teleporting. It is not true teleportation like Darkseid or Galactus.

Um king kai's planet is 10X the gravity of earth it was said when he first arrived there in the saiyin saga

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Um king kai's planet is 10X the gravity of earth it was said when he first arrived there in the saiyin saga

King Kais Planet was destroyed by that time.

"Oh, and Goku cannot teleport anywhere and everywhere."

Oly- Around Superman while figthing he can. Moreso he can sense where Superman will be due to his energy.

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"Almost all the "Z" warriors died when Buu blew up the earth.
None could fly off planet in time..."

Oly- Buu is just plain faster?

- - -

"People keep saying Goku is a faster fighter when his exact fighting speed and traveling speed is unknown"

Oly- Faster fighter in -combat speed-. You rarely see Superman even figthing as he was taugh by Monguls son.

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"Blah blah... No scans/proof"

Oly- Want me REALLY to scan later the page about your supossed planet explosion survival? Exactly the one where he was warned about the explosion and got out of there before and not being caugh 😉?

I mean in this little example, Goku is near a earth shaking blast :

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume40/Db40ch03/400307.gif

Did he survived the actual explosion too? I guess so, by your reasoning.

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"He was trained by Mongul II, Batman, and WW. He even start to use it against Zod (which he stats himself that he had training from both of them)."

Oly- Yes, he was trained by Mongul. Show me where he was trained in MA by Bats and WW figthing styles. No sparring. Actual training.

- - -

"Which means he's never rusty in combat since he's always fighting. "

Oly- They all fight when they need to. Superman unless he has a reason doesnt go around figthing either.

- - -

"Yeah it allows him to teleport right in front of a punch, that move will just be a waste of energy."

Oly- No. It allows him to teleport anywhere around the area the opponent is, and even more. We`ve seen him covering the distance of planets. Where was it stated that it spent considerable energy?

- - -

"Supeman has fought people that was class 100 and they still weren't able to move him and they were stornger than ssj3 Goku. And Goku stuggles to push it, not lift it btw."

Oly- Goku has fought with Universal treats. (see scans below). And that would still be dealing with the entire weight. Mountain level its and always was top tier. If you want to argue, get me an example of Thing who is below doing a feat like that. Anyone of thing level by strenght alone.

Going on:

Now lets see the universal threats they faced. None you say? We start with Freeza.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/447/db260940su.gif
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4931/db260952gq.gif

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3519/db270959ch.gif
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/184/db270976sq.gif
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2968/db270981gx.gif

(look at that, the explosion that went to the core was even seen in outer space, and Goku was near to it as well hmmmz ).

And more impressive? Freeza wasent at full power in neither the planet blasting feats:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8052/db271097xv.gif

And Goku won toe to toe against that beast. But theres more, how should i say? "nice" feats:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9489/3008065eg.gif
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7862/3008076kk.gif

and

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4990/db310902jb.gif
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8660/db310935jy.gif

A single attack seen and felt miles away? Surely thou jest.

and what is this...?

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/121/3211093ct.gif
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5214/3211119qk.gif
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1391/3211120km.gif
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4715/3211134dk.gif

Outer space again? Enough to blow up the earth? Its this Goku? Freeza? Buu? nah, just Sj Vegeta.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7029/3506188gk.gif
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6797/3506196ha.gif

Whats this? A blast powerful enough not only to destroy the Earth but more? Oh, its just the solar system. Courtesy of Cell.

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/407/3913116qh.gif
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2232/3913128pw.gif

How tough its this guy you ask? After all, he just destroyed effortsly a city. What is story after all?

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3360/4206042mk.gif

Wait, Fat Buu isent the strongest? What did he do before getting like that?

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/1011/3713136wn.gif
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3207/3713142qp.gif

Crapolla? Only hundred of planets? Gods able to defeat Freeza with a single blast? Dang. Ok, so hes more tough than i would think at first? What did he do against these guys?

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/738/buu0dy.gif
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1918/buu11wh.gif

A single without effort blast powerful enough to destroy Earth? But has he really done it this time?

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7568/4206087ds.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8449/4206093yp.gif
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5219/4206108ea.gif
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3436/4206116rs.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5913/4206120vt.gif

One blast, without effort, fast enough for Goku to acnowelege his only was out was teleporting to another planet.

Yup. Seems like his record its still clean.

Since Freeza these guys have gone against people who could zap planets with -ease- and even more. Theres no way, Superman packs raw power for this. This is pre crisis stuff.

Finishing up:

"He raised his arm to charge up the blast, Goku even had time to shoot KI blasts at it, plus the blast was very slow; Superman could do alot damge to him during that time"

Oly- See the scan above. He cleary states there isent enough time to try anything other than getting out of there.

- - -

"Yep, one punch could pretty much end the fight, ssj3 is going to be in alot more pain when hit by Superman then he was against Buu"

Oly- Superman isent Captain Marvel 👿

This one is so bad i wont even make further comments.

- - -

"If teleporting= speed in your world, then I see why you're all off on this"

Oly- You appearantly dont read well. I said and i stand by it that "allows him to be faster" than its opponents. Wich it does.

These guys have great pure speed feats. You have the laps around Earth-taking a nap one, You have in combat speed in the very beginning, Roshi against Kurilin who did several moves, faster than the eye in one second.

More of power? Buu and the kids opened with theyr Ki a dimension portal to get out of the Time Room:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/5676/4107124dh.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2236/4107130hr.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9214/4108014ua.gif
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/3844/4108027lj.gif

And this wasent the strongest/powerful Buu form either. What about the kids that wer -weaker- than SJ3 Goku as seen they couldnt defeat a weaker form of Buu than the one Goku went against?

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4462/4108109uc.gif

With a little help from Picollo they did the same.

Pre crisis stuff. Pure and Simple. Superman unless he gets back to those levels falls -short- compared with these.

Superior strenght and speed (more advantage on the strenght department, than speed) only gets you so far.

These feat wars are useless the best way to measure a character is

Strength/power

speed

technique

intelligence

Originally posted by olympian
Want me REALLY to scan later the page about your supossed planet explosion survival? Exactly the one where he was warned about the explosion and got out of there before and not being caugh 😉?

No need, I put it up along with the planet exploding in the respect forum, nowhere does it show Supes getting out in time, and the pic shows him being flung by the FORCE of the EXPLOSION itself. The page after shows Braniac PUTTING THE PLANET BACK TOGETHER (A nice feat of it's own).

It's obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about. 🙂

Reading through the DBZ sagas, Goku is nowhere near a match for Supes, although he is still pretty impressive at times.

Speed. You have to be pretty damn fast to catch nuclear fallout and radiation AFTER a nuclear bomb goes off. Then to fuse it and toss it into the sun from the earth AFTER laying in kryptonite sand.

I think all the evidence speaks for itself, anyone impartial to both these characters (not a fanboy to either) can easily see that Supes is on a whole different level above.

Originally posted by olympian
Oly- Around Superman while figthing he can. Moreso he can sense where Superman will be due to his energy.

Aside from the movie, which isn't cannon, no he can't. He only did this around Cell and Buu once. He doesn't just start teleporting whenever he wants.

"Almost all the "Z" warriors died when Buu blew up the earth.
None could fly off planet in time..."

Oly- Buu is just plain faster?

Or maybe they're not as fast as you say they are.

"People keep saying Goku is a faster fighter when his exact fighting speed and traveling speed is unknown"

Oly- Faster fighter in -combat speed-. You rarely see Superman even figthing as he was taugh by Monguls son.

Stil haven't seen anything Goku has done that Superman hasn't speed wise. Unless you provide a speed feat that shows Goku going somewhere or doing something Superman couldn't do, he is simply not faster.

Superman doesn't need to have pre-crisis levels to survive the ki blasts. Black holes, supernovas, galaxy destroying maggeddon, 1 million nuclear bombs, etc.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Wow, Femi, thats a freakin awesome site for DB/DBZ...

Crazy..

Good stuff, Thanks..

Don't thank me. Thank the person who made that site. Reading the first part of the manga is pretty funny. Goku actually thought Bulma's boobs was a butt. 😆

"No need, I put it up along with the planet exploding in the respect forum, nowhere does it show Supes getting out in time"

Oly- Of course not. Only him -already out- when the explosion happened 😉

-just- that. Be my guess. Post it.

- - -

"and the pic shows him being flung by the FORCE of the EXPLOSION itself."

Oly- Correct. And is it the same as being caugh IN the explosion? Goku did similiar with the explosions in those scans.

- - -

"It's obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about "

Oly- Appearantly the writer doesnt know either, because he didnt wrote the scene -you- first described.

- - -

"Aside from the movie, which isn't cannon, no he can't. He only did this around Cell and Buu once. He doesn't just start teleporting whenever he wants."

Oly- The scans show otherwise. Especially the fight with Cell. And also more than one version of Buu. Even against Freeza elite guard he was already doing stuff -alike-. Around the area he can teleport /speedblitz and attack.

And yeah he could only do it against Cell and Buu. He learned it after the Freeza saga and those two wer the last sagas...

- - -

"Or maybe they're not as fast as you say they are."

Oly- What i said its correct. Buu was faster than them. How much? Thats another thing. How fast you think Gotenks was when he did those laps around the world in no time, with Picollo on his track?. I consider it top tier fast wich is enough to handle Superman with his other abilities.

- - -

"Stil haven't seen anything Goku has done that Superman hasn't speed wise. Unless you provide a speed feat that shows Goku going somewhere or doing something Superman couldn't do, he is simply not faster. "

Oly- I said combat speeds. Not flying speed. Speedblitz type attacks. Supes -usually- doesnt speedblitz at high speeds in combat and at this level.

I havent seen him doing impressive stuff in that regard.

- - -

"Superman doesn't need to have pre-crisis levels to survive the ki blasts. Black holes, supernovas, galaxy destroying maggeddon, 1 million nuclear bombs, etc."

Oly- What blast of Maggedon he took? Futhermore, no he doesnt.

Surviving those and still be in top shape to fight someone with that raw power its something else. Or surviving several attacks of this nature, we`ve seen that with only one attack more than one of these guys, could at least have destroyed the Earth.

- - -

"I think all the evidence speaks for itself, anyone impartial to both these characters (not a fanboy to either) can easily see that Supes is on a whole different level above."

Oly- Except all evidence shows hes not nearly as powerful. Hes stronger yes. Faster flying wise yes. But not -better- combat wise, even with speed involved. Neither close as skilled. This last one its his second biggest disavantage.

If this was just a strenght contest id chose Superman. A speed race, id chose Superman. An all out powers allowed contest, i dont favor him at all.

Chosing Superman who doesnt have this raw power based on strenght and speed alone is more biased than you claim me to be, chump. 🏴‍☠️

Then again perhaps you would be someone who would favor Kal even against Thor and Surfer with all theyr abilities for use.

Originally posted by olympian

Oly- What i said its correct. Buu was faster than them. How much? Thats another thing. How fast you think Gotenks was when he did those laps around the world in no time, with picollo on his track?. I consider it top tier fast wich is enough to handle Superman with his other abilities.

The anime had the same scene and Gotenks's nap wasn't that long. He's Mach 632(480,900 mi/hr).

"Stil haven't seen anything Goku has done that Superman hasn't speed wise. Unless you provide a speed feat that shows Goku going somewhere or doing something Superman couldn't do, he is simply not faster. "

Oly- I said combat feat. Not flying speed. Speedblitz attack. Your not trying to tell, Supes -usually- speedblitz at high speeds in combat and at this level, are you?

I havent seen him doing anything impressive in that regard.

Can you tell me exactly how fast they are going in combat? That's why it's pointless to say they are faster when feats prove otherwise.

Edit for above:

Oly- I said combat speed. Not flying speed. Speedblitz type attacks. Your not trying to tell, Supes -usually- speedblitz at high speeds in combat and at this level, are you?

- - -

"The anime had the same scene and Gotenks's nap wasn't that long. He's Mach 632(480,900 mi/hr)."

Oly- Im talking about the Manga. It all happens in an instant. Including the laps, Picollo after them and the nap. And Gotens even claiming he was waiting for him.

- - -

"Can you tell me exactly how fast they are going in combat? That's why it's pointless to say they are faster when feats prove otherwise."

Oly- Several ways faster than a second the very -least-. Roshi and Krillin did that in the beginning of the whole Dragonball saga. One second. No one saw. Several moves. (and it wasent just 5 moves each or something like that).

They -have- to be levels faster than that considering, they totally eclipsed those first long by levels. And even before raditz showed up.

If you ask me. Fast enough to go against Supeman and not being taken easily. Add that to more -alot- raw power and much better figthing skills? Supes has more disavantages here.