The Bible is based on Astrology..

Originally posted by inimalist
well, it is sort of undeniable that the stories of the bible are influenced by the culture it was written in and the context of the time (social, geopolitical, religious, all that stuff). Your question is valid, but just because someone comes to a conclusion, doesn't mean they fall into the "I wanted to disprove the bible" camp.

I'd say the problem with his question is a bit more fundamental than that. If someone proves that the Bible is based on astrology the motivations behind that discovery are irrelevant.

Like if Jonas Salk cured polio simply because he had a vicious rivalry with Robert Henderson that wouldn't change the fact that his vaccine worked.

Although I guess in this case my own bias might be showing. I certainly tend to ask for information that will let me evaluate if something is worth looking at to begin with (but in this case the content is so concise I can't see that argument working).

Originally posted by inimalist
well, it is sort of undeniable that the stories of the bible are influenced by the culture it was written in and the context of the time (social, geopolitical, religious, all that stuff). Your question is valid, but just because someone comes to a conclusion, doesn't mean they fall into the "I wanted to disprove the bible" camp.

Unless you are some strict literalist, seeing the Bible in some type of cultural context is almost a necessity of Christianity. How else do you deal with its clear advocation of mysogyny or slavery? I don't even think this threatens christianity as a religion at all.

To try and find what these influences might have been is not, in the slightest, attempting to say Christianity is false, and honestly, your God should be much more important than that. The message, which transcends the cultural context of some of the passages, is what is important, no?

again, I'm not a christian, so correct me if i'm wrong, maybe your god is that fragile...

I'd agree with you, Astrology, in terms of what we accept that word means in modern times, is a construct of "spiritualist" movements starting in the 60s/70s with little, if any, connection to ancient beliefs.

Astrology is probably not the basis of the Bible, though again, we cannot deny there are influences from, say, Roman culture. Though, this would be expected, considering when the New Testament was put together.

especially in these forum contexts, this is a very relevant question. I'm sure sym would be all over me and my own biases if I were to start asking questions that showed my inner randian or anarchist. Its part and parcel of being part of a community where debate is one of the central features. We get to know eachother's biases, and through that, we can question eachother's motives, because we know a bit of background about people

its nothing personal, just we have a different opinion than you, but the common ground is that we are all interested enough to want to come here and debate it (lol, it sounds like I just did a line of MDMA, if only)

Cool, an answer that was actually well thought out, thanks. Indeed my quest for knowledge has shown me how very differently people respond to simple questions. The reason I asked the question is so I could see how seriously to take this thread and perhaps others. It's nice to know that some people will think before they jump to conclusions. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'd say the problem with his question is a bit more fundamental than that. If someone proves that the Bible is based on astrology the motivations behind that discovery are irrelevant.

Like if Jonas Salk cured polio simply because he had a vicious rivalry with Robert Henderson that wouldn't change the fact that his vaccine worked.

Although I guess in this case my own bias might be showing. I certainly tend to ask for information that will let me evaluate if something is worth looking at to begin with (but in this case the content is so concise I can't see that argument working).

lol, well like, obviously we are more in agreement than not. I'm just bored here in Winnipeg, and figured I would answer The Mister as directly as possible.

I agree, motive is far less important than fact. To take this to a needless extreme, I'm of the camp that even Mengela's work should be reviewed, as it might have some scientific merit.

I see his (her?) bias, and of course I see that his question was based on essentially a dismissal of anything that says the bible isn't true...

Originally posted by The MISTER
Cool, an answer that was actually well thought out, thanks. Indeed my quest for knowledge has shown me how very differently people respond to simple questions. The reason I asked the question is so I could see how seriously to take this thread and perhaps others. It's nice to know that some people will think before they jump to conclusions. 😮‍💨

word

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually I was just pointing out that you're immediate reaction was to reframe the conversation with a loaded question. Your supposed "quest for knowledge" rings completely hollow.

I was actually just skipping reading every post and just finding out what was the intent without trying to figure it out myself. So I ask you and you start getting defensive instead of just answering. Agenda? Who said that? Me? No you came out calling my quest for knowledge hollow and suggesting the thread doesn't have an agenda! I haven't read much of the thread but the name of it and I asked the question based on it's being stated as fact not theory. I got an answer to my question too. You are thinking about an agenda and inimalist is not. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'd say the problem with his question is a bit more fundamental than that. If someone proves that the Bible is based on astrology the motivations behind that discovery are irrelevant.

Like if Jonas Salk cured polio simply because he had a vicious rivalry with Robert Henderson that wouldn't change the fact that his vaccine worked.

Although I guess in this case my own bias might be showing. I certainly tend to ask for information that will let me evaluate if something is worth looking at to begin with (but in this case the content is so concise I can't see that argument working)

I read this post after i posted last time. No need to think that I'm closed minded just because I get straight to the point sometimes. And I ain't judging you cause you're biased! 😄 Show me someone who isn't.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
😱 Are you just know noticing that? 😂

Noticing what? 😄

That's another loaded question man! 😮‍💨 Don't answer it man!! 😮‍💨 😆

Originally posted by inimalist
ah, ok, i misunderstood

I agree totally, I just don't think a desire to investigate falls between "us" and "them", it is the antithesis to that type of thinking. Investigate, and let the pieces fall where they may

Originally posted by Deja~vu
When I started this thread, it was because I was just reading and curious about the origins of the Bible. I wasn't trying to disprove it. After a whole lot of reading on many Biblical subjects I did come to the conclusion that it was all copied from somewhere else though.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Cool. 😎 I do remember hearing a guy on the radio talking about how the Bible corresponds with some practice that involves using numbers, numerology or something. I thought that was really interesting. I'm not surprised if the Bible and astrology are similar in ways. Both are ancient and mysteriously accurate about many things involving the future. 😮‍💨

😆 Astrology is mysteriously accurate, if mysteriously accurate means nothing but a con job. Because of precession, the sign you are supposed to have been born with is wrong.

http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=astrology_and_precession.php

I am totally the description of Gemini though, and what makes it worse is that my Decendent is also in Gemini. It's like a curse! 😱

What's up with that? Heck it's from the time of my childhood...It won't end..Grr.

does that mean i'm not really a leo and i bn planting a month later? 😑 😕

Well the Bible does have a lot of astrology in it. There are verses that tell you to look at the heavens for answers; look at the Sun the Moon and the Stars. It's asking you to look at the planets and stars positions for upcoming events.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Well the Bible does have a lot of astrology in it. There are verses that tell you to look at the heavens for answers; look at the Sun the Moon and the Stars. It's asking you to look at the planets and stars positions for upcoming events.

So, are you saying that the bible has a lot of bull sh*t in it?

The bible is based off ignorance.

If we knew then what we know now, meaning about the world and science, the bible would not have been created.

but what we know now hasnt kept people from reading and following the bible.

like i said already i blame Charlton Heston for keeping the bible alive in the U.S. him and Pat Robertson

Originally posted by King Castle
but what we know now hasnt kept people from reading and following the bible.

like i said already i blame Charlton Heston for keeping the bible alive in the U.S. him and Pat Robertson

"Damn them, damn them all to hell!"

To think those men are educated men and they believe in such a place? Just wow.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
😆 Astrology is mysteriously accurate, if mysteriously accurate means nothing but a con job. Because of precession, the sign you are supposed to have been born with is wrong.

http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=astrology_and_precession.php

When I say mysteriously accurate I'm only going off of what I've seen for myself. I've casually checked out the horoscope before as they're usually near the comics. Sometimes it's neat how it seems like the horoscopes are near to specific as far as what they entail about different people. It's just interesting is all. You guys are a trip. So you don't believe in the Bible. You believe in men. 😆 Men have been wrong about what they have known to be true in the past. Whether you like it or not you must exert some measure of faith that you are right about what you believe. Acting like your beliefs are superior rather than simply sharing them corrupts what you believe with arrogance. Religious people do this and I see that they aren't the only ones. Arrogant people who act like they hold all the truth is what is wrong with the religious and scientific worlds. Even if a human claims that their religious book is pure truth they would have to claim to be perfect themselves in order to say that they know all of what is true and false.

Originally posted by The MISTER
When I say mysteriously accurate I'm only going off of what I've seen for myself. I've casually checked out the horoscope before as they're usually near the comics. Sometimes it's neat how it seems like the horoscopes are near to specific as far as what they entail about different people. It's just interesting is all. You guys are a trip. So you don't believe in the Bible. You believe in men. 😆 Men have been wrong about what they have known to be true in the past. Whether you like it or not you must exert some measure of faith that you are right about what you believe. Acting like your beliefs are superior rather than simply sharing them corrupts what you believe with arrogance. Religious people do this and I see that they aren't the only ones. Arrogant people who act like they hold all the truth is what is wrong with the religious and scientific worlds. Even if a human claims that their religious book is pure truth they would have to claim to be perfect themselves in order to say that they know all of what is true and false.

What do you mean by I don't believe in the bible? You say that like the bible was something to believe in. These kind of statements are what makes be believe that Christians worship the bible like an idol.

So, you are criticizing, and calling me arrogant for what I've not said? What was it that I did not say that was so arrogant? Can you quote that part that I did not say?

If you want to learn about what I believe, you can go here:
http://www.sgi-usa.org/