Insults to muslims or freedom of speech?

Started by Shakyamunison35 pages

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao, u really dont know ANYTHING do u? if they HAD the power, ud already all be imprisoned/converted/in concentration camps or executed.
heck i even got my mother to say what she thought{n shes not even close to what can be called a GOOD, pious muslim} n she said that the world can be allowed to exist in peace ONLY under the rule/power and sword of islam, otherwise muslims should fight till the entire world is under the flag of islam as it is our duty on this earth to spread god's relegion and purge the land of pagans and false beliefs.

really people in the west amuse me sometimes, they really have NO idea whats going on in the less fortunate parts of the world{no offence}

I understand, and I hear you. That will be a bloody day, sorry.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao, u really dont know ANYTHING do u? if they HAD the power, ud already all be imprisoned/converted/in concentration camps or executed.
heck i even got my mother to say what she thought{n shes not even close to what can be called a GOOD, pious muslim} n she said that the world can be allowed to exist in peace ONLY under the rule/power and sword of islam, otherwise muslims should fight till the entire world is under the flag of islam as it is our duty on this earth to spread god's relegion and purge the land of pagans and false beliefs.

really people in the west amuse me sometimes, they really have NO idea whats going on in the less fortunate parts of the world{no offence}

Yeah, I've read much about it....And it is like LAW. It's their way or no way at all and there's no room for compromise sadly to say, and yes, if they had their way we'd all be converted or killed. It's stated in the Qua ran.

lmao, u really dont know ANYTHING do u? if they HAD the power, ud already all be imprisoned/converted/in concentration camps or execute

Really? Let's see...

Mauritania generally lets non-Muslims alone; they're under Islamic law, they can't hold high public office, and they can't publically sell Bibles (but they can own and read them). They are not forcibily converted, put into concentration camps, imprisoned, or executed. Maybe Muslims just don't have the power to do that? Maybe. Then again, since 99.9% of the population is Islamic, making it the most Islamic country in the world (over 3 million people), and all of the major political figures are Muslims, maybe not.

The Maldives? Yes; citizens are required to embrace Islam.

Western Sahara? No; Islam is the official religion, and it is the third most Islamic country in the world, but their consitution guarantees religious freedom.

Somalia? Hard to say; depends on where you are in he country. Not a bastion of religious freedom, but no concentration camps.

Turkey? Absolutely not; they have a strong tradition of seperation of Church and State, religious freedom written into their consitution, and the government strongly opposes Muslim fundamentalism.

Iran? Yeh; bad stuff going on there.

Algeria? Islam is the official religion, but the constitution protects freedom of religion.

Afghanistan? Poor religious freedom under the Talaban; I don't know what's going on there now.

Yemen? Shari'a law, but freedom of religion is in the constitution, and non-Muslims are not mollested unless they try to convert people, and the clergy generall denounces religious violence.

Tunisia? Monotonously, Tunisia also has Islam as the official religion while simultaniously guarenteeing freedom of religion in their consitution.

Oman? Shari'a law, again with religious freedom guarenteed by the Basic Law. Interestingly, fifty or so people have been arrested on religious grounds; they were suspected of belonging to an Islamic terrorist group...

Comoros? Islamic law; religious freedom guaranteed, with some abuses occuring.

Djibouti? Freedom of religion is in the Constitution.

So how about it, leonheartmm? Why is it that, in the countries listed above--which are every country in the world with a Muslim population of more than 99%, in case you were wondering how I selected them--a majority of them insure the religions freedom of their citizens? They do some things that we wouldn't tolerate in America, such as forbidding them from preaching their religon, but imprisonment? Execution? Concentration camps? Stuff and nonsense.

lmao, as i SAID,u dont know anything, first up those FACTS are mostly doctored{not in the cases of turkey, but fot most others}. secondly those countries are SECULAR in their legal approach and AGAINST islam, the political parties even though they dont say it out loud are QUITE a bit against islam, it is the general POPULACE that is muslim{to different extents but much MUCH more than is portrayed} and if u lived in a third world country, ud know that its ur surrounding community and family that decides ur future, NOT legal rights or laws{which are quite often BROKEN n no1 does anythin about it cause many in the government cant do anythin to flare up extremist emotions of the maority} did you KNOW that many women are KILLED in societies if the are even seen with another man outside of marriage?! ofcourse not, the western ass kissin politicians DONT LET THAT OUT, n they are mostly killed by brothers or fathers who cant tolerate the DISGRACE. {now think of what a man who could kill his own daughter or sister would do to YOU if they had power} n no1 does anythin about em even thought there are laws against it. most women are SEVERELY OPRESSED, insulted, raped maritally, beaten up, blah blah blah. u have to LIVE here to see. what u see on tv or listen to on the net is not even close to enough . the conditions in many places are unbeliebeably bad. and YEA, people KILL even normal people of their own communities if they voice out anythin against islam or taboos.

n as far as the terrorist capturing thing goes thas just to PLEASE people like YOU n ur governments n extract favour among the western countries, every lil thing like that ends up on tv n u hear about it. what u dont hear about is the THOUSANDS of other things goin on that people dont let out. for instance, in islamabad today{pakistan's capital} most roads and institutions were closed due to rioting mobs against the prophet's cartoons. the government cudnt do SHIT about it n they burnt down many banks, cars, n killed quite a few people.oh n hey they destroyed a couple of cinemas as well. in only 5 hours.

So any facts that you don't agree with are "doctored." Why do I always end up arguing with lunatics? In almost all of the countries I listed, the government consists entirely of Muslims; you are completely wrong when you say that it's only the "general populace" that's Islamic. Since your argument style seems to mostly consist of "making shit up," I'm not really sure what to say. Where the hell are you from, anyway?

Originally posted by Gregory
So any facts that you don't agree with are "doctored." Why do I always end up arguing with lunatics? In almost all of the countries I listed, the government consists entirely of Muslims; you are completely wrong when you say that it's only the "general populace" that's Islamic. Since your argument style seems to mostly consist of "making shit up," I'm not really sure what to say. Where the hell are you from, anyway?

its NOT that. dude listen to me, ive lived in pakistan since birth, ive gone to many other muslim countries. im not exactly in the arrogant highclass os ive seen the GENERAL populace of both my country and others. reguardless of these countries being RUN by muslims{btw they are not PRACTICING muslims} they are SECULAR, islam has NO CONCEPT of secularism, which means that they are NOT bieng run by exact shariah NOT EVEN CLOSE! in shariah, if an emporer/ruler does ANYTHING against islam even in his personal life it is the people's OBLIGATION to overthrow him. but ofcourse not EVERY1 follows islam that strictly,doesnt make ISLAM any better, just means that many HUMANS can not do everythin by THEIR book, its natural, but all that i have stated is the thruth.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
as ive been tryin to tell people. islam isnt like any other relegion, definately not the type people in the west are used to following, it is a CODE OF LIFE, nuthing less, it IS to be followed without fail, it contains outright FACTS, rules and laws with little room for abstract interpretation, it does NOT allow one to even THINK in a way different than prescribed. if it is not followed it orders wordly punishments to be inflicted other than the suffereing in hell. its not like christianity where it can be taken in many ways, its like state LAW.
You should kill the imams in denmark then. They are the only ones who committed blasphemy. http://heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/2006/02/manufactured-rage.html
Muhammed Cartoons Appeared In Egyptian Newspaper In October 2005 - There Was No Reaction Or Protests...
...the violent outrage exhibited by Muslims worldwide has been orchestrated initially by Danish jihadist imams who presented themselves as moderates to the non-Islamic world, while preaching and instigating jihad and violence to the Muslim world. The violent Muslim reaction was subsequently fueled by Arab islamic governments for their own political purposes.

In other words, we've been had, and the American media bought it all - hook," lying," and sinker!!!

HyScience has more here.

Michelle Malkin has more on the three manufactured cartoons- these were supposedly ugly, vile depictions of topics sacred to Islam- but they never appeared in the Danish press. One of them turns out to be a bad copy of a French man at a pig calling contest in France- it had nothing to do with Islam at all! She also quotes extensively from Brussels reporter Paul Belien:
When the Danish press discovered the three false so-called Danish cartoons, the imams refused to say where they had got them. They claimed, however, that the false cartoons were genuinely Danish and had been added to “give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims.”
The Brussels Journal has always doubted whether the cartoons added by the imams were genuine. Whenever we mentioned them we explicitly wondered whether they were not “of the imam’s own making.” Certain Western mainstream media, however, such as the Australian network SBS and the British BBC authoritatively declared that the pigsnout was one of Jyllands-Posten’s cartoons.

Yesterday an American blogger discovered where the “pigsnout Muhammad” comes from. It has no relation to Muhammad whatsoever, it is not even a cartoon, but a fax image of a photo of a French clown performing at a pig festival.

Denmark is being punished at the instigation of radical imams because twelve cartoonists have depicted Muhammad. However, these imams created their own three Muhammad images. They have even presented a French clown as being Muhammad. Because the twelve JP cartoonists are not Muslims, the Muslim blasphemy laws do not apply to them. But these laws do apply to the imams. Consequently, these imams deserve death. They – and no-one else – depicted the prophet as a pig – the highest imaginable insult in Islam.

...Western papers and blogs that published the twelve cartoons were right to do so. If they had not published, no-one would have been able to ascertain that the pigsnout was not among them. If they had not published, the cheating, blasphemous imams would have got away with their lies. The public is served by information, never harmed by it. Let this be a lesson to the cowards of The Guardian, SBS, the BBC and the British and American mainstream media, who “out of respect” for Islam would have allowed blasphemous imams to get away with their gross insult of the prophet, with slander and libel, and with the violent acts which they instigated.

Cinnamon Stillwell has a great timeline of events and some helpful perspective:
Whether the protesters constitute large portions of the Muslim population or simply a radical fringe is still questionable. It certainly is odd that the cartoons came out in September and are only now causing such an uproar. How all those Danish flags suddenly appeared across the Muslim world is another curiosity. Could it be that this "movement" was in fact orchestrated? The finger has been pointed at Syria and Iran as possible contenders.

But some Muslims have chosen not to follow the script. Emboldened by the fortitude of their countrymen, Danish Muslims in the city of Arhus have begun to speak out against the radical imams who purport to represent them. "There is a large group of Muslims in this city who want to live in a secular society and adhere to the principle that religion is an issue between them and God and not something that should involve society," said city official and organizer Bünyamin Simsek.

Omar at Iraq the Model offers the sort of insider's insight that is invaluable:
I swear that 90%+ of the protestors in Muslim countries have not seen the cartoons and do not know the name of the paper and when I say that I'm sure of it because I have access to the web 24/7 and I spent a really long time searching for the cartoons and couldn’t find them until a friend emailed me a link and.

You know that those cartoons were published for the 1st time months ago and we here in the Middle East have tonnes of jokes about Allah, the prophets and the angels that are way more offensive, funny and obscene than those poorly-made cartoons, yet no one ever got shot for telling one of those jokes or at least we had never seen rallies and protests against those infidel joke-tellers.

What I want to say is that I think the reactions were planned to be exaggerated this time by some Middle Eastern regimes and are not mere public reaction.
And I think Syria and Iran have the motives to trigger such reactions in order to get away from the pressures applied by the international community on those regimes.

However, I cannot claim that Muslim community is innocent for there have been outrageous reactions outside the range of Syria's or Iran's influence but again, these protests and threats are more political than religious in nature.

One last thing, even if the entire EU apologizes it won't change a thing; fanatics in our countries here had always considered the west their infidel arrogant crusader enemy and no apology no matter how big or sincere can change that.

Rather than it being offensive to portray Mohammed in any sort of art work, Muslims themselves have been doing so for centuries, Via the Squiggler comes this link to several examples.

As far as this goes, and it still keeps on going, I don't think its anything new.

First there was a murder of Theo Van Gogh for movie Submission, then there were massacres in Spain and France, and western Eurpose stood silent for all those, and now there are demonstrations and death threats! This has been happening for a while.

For some Muslims, when they are a minority, they demand democracy, but when they are majority, they demand Islamic theocracy and everyone must submit.

Cartoons should have been printed - theres no question about it. Why? Because its our freedom of speach.

Jews and Christians are daily ridiculed and bashed around Islamic world, Jews are even publically called Pigs and Monkeys, but I can't seem to recall last time a group of militant Jews or Militant Christians, burning SAudi Arabian ambasy and threatening to kill all Non-Jews/Non-Christians.

Anyone ever see a toddler having a temper tanturm? Note the similarities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, a Muslim and the general manager of Arab news channel, Al-Arabiya has said: "It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims."

oh well sometimes it just doesn't take much to stir a hornets nest.

Originally posted by Mindship
Anyone ever see a toddler having a temper tanturm? Note the similarities.
If the cartoons was all it was it just shows the imaturity of their faith. I think this was an excuse to riot. Since three of them were manifactured by the imams and weren't in the paper the imams are the ones they should be mad at. I don't think most of them knew what they were rioting about they were just going along with the crowd.

This is a boring thead............

Originally posted by debbiejo
This is a boring thead............

Be careful... you are going to get yourself killed. 😱

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
It's racist, pure and simple
It isn't racsist because islam is not a race. http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4558

These people are crazy. http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/
Thursday, February 16, 2006
Female Reporter Stoned at Turkish Cartoon Protest

"We were doing our job as journalists. But apparently some people found that not covering my head was provocative. They called me a blasphemer while I was sitting on the bus. They threw stones and shoes. As a reporter from Konya I was ashamed."

Aliye Cetinkaya
Sunday, Feb. 12, 2006
Just a guess, but... this news probably doesn't help the Turks much in their quest for EU membership. Those Irish and Austrian girls aren't much into things like that. Turkish Muslims burn a Danish flag after Friday prayers on Feb. 10, 2006. (AP)

Via Free Thoughts- A Turkish female journalist was stoned at a Muhammad Cartoon protest for not wearing a head scarf:

I personally am torn on this issue.. first of all it is free speech and the European press outlets have the right to say or print whatever they want, but at the same time they should have respect for people and their beliefs. My first reaction was why would someone in their right mind want to draw or print an offensive picture like that in the first place. And then i got to thinking that if this same cartoonist would have drawn an Anti-Christian or Anti-Semitic picture would the paper have run it? And i honestly believe the answer is no, so if the people are calling this free speech everyone better just shut up when leaders in these Muslim nations who were blatently disrespected start burning Danish flags and screaming for the death of all danish citizen because it is free speech and they can say whatever they want even if it is mean and offensive to others.
also let me add as an American going to school in a Muslim nation that i personally taken part in non violent protests of Denmark and Danish goods and will continue to do so until this issue is resolved....

The problem with Muslims is all that imbreeding and spicy food.

Originally posted by ibleedyankeeblu
I personally am torn on this issue.. first of all it is free speech and the European press outlets have the right to say or print whatever they want, but at the same time they should have respect for people and their beliefs. My first reaction was why would someone in their right mind want to draw or print an offensive picture like that in the first place. And then i got to thinking that if this same cartoonist would have drawn an Anti-Christian or Anti-Semitic picture would the paper have run it? And i honestly believe the answer is no, so if the people are calling this free speech everyone better just shut up when leaders in these Muslim nations who were blatently disrespected start burning Danish flags and screaming for the death of all danish citizen because it is free speech and they can say whatever they want even if it is mean and offensive to others.
also let me add as an American going to school in a Muslim nation that i personally taken part in non violent protests of Denmark and Danish goods and will continue to do so until this issue is resolved....
I don't thinnnk thee danish paper puubliisheedd anny realy offensive ones but they may have. The danish imams manufactured some really blasphemous pictures and brought them to the arab countries. As for them not being able to portray Mohaammed in any form that''s mainly a Sunni ruling and the Shites and Sufis do it a lot. The reason they were upset enough to riot is because he was drawn as a terrorist. This was not just about the cartoons it can't be. I think it has been building up for decades in europe. http://www.slate.com/id/2135661/fr/rss/

Originally posted by debbiejo
The problem with Muslims is all that imbreeding and spicy food.
I understand why they are mad about the cartoons but as for portraying Mohammed in any way I think that is mainly the Sunnis. http://www.slate.com/id/2135661/fr/rss/
The Muslim world abounds with magnificent images of Mohammed. (In general, Shiites and Sufis tend to be more flexible on this point than Sunnis). In some, the prophet's face is obscured by a pillar of fire that rises from beneath his chin in a veil of flames. In others, he is unveiled and glorious, a golden nimbus hovering over his head.