Originally posted by Bardock42
No, but the cartoonist knew what he would start with it.
I think both sides don't behave correct and should take a step back but they both have a right to express themself.
Yeah. It's about rights and responsibilities. (Jane Austen's unfinished novel.)
Even if you have the justifiable right to do something, it doesn't mean you should do so without giving thought to the repercussions, the feelings of others, courtesy, and so forth.
Muslims do prohibit the depiction of the prophet Muhammad and other prophets because they see it as a way to prevent idolatry. I can see why they would be upset, given the current state of things and all that. They really are particularly insulting if you are Muslim, for example one drawing of Muhammad had his turban in the shape of a bomb.
Still, I don’t see the point in taking Western hostages and shouting “Death to Denmark!” and “Death to France!”. This is the kind of behavior that gives Muslims such a bad rep. I know that not all Muslims behave this way, but the extremists just take it way too far. What ever happened to civil protest? Is it THAT big of a deal to get all worked up about. I know we don’t mind if other Westerners make satire of Jesus, but what if a Muslim or an Asian created it?
Although I can see why they are upset, people are throwing it WAY out of proportion. At this point, I think that certain Muslims are just looking for any excuse to lash out at the Western world.
On a related topic:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060203/ts_alt_afp/europeislammediaus
I find the reactions of certain muslims extreme. However, this one of the reasons why I believe we shouldn't be touching sensitive stuff like Religion and make a mockery of it. Fine, you don't believe in what their faith preaches. So why even criticize it? What do you gain by Angering people? That's the million dollar question.
And I do quite agree with Fred Hiatt in the article:
"If I were faced with something that I know is gonna be offensive to many of our readers, I would think twice about whether the benefit of publication outweighed the offense it might give,"
And this couldn't have come at a worse time. With last year Paris Riots and the recent victory of Hamas...this is just adding wood to fire. These are delicate times for all of us. I think we need to drop the whole current apathy behavior of our times that says "I'll say whatever I want and I don't care who I offend" and be more considerate to others.
If I know my freedom of speech is going to offend others....I'd rather keep it to myself. I don't need controversy on my shoulder. I don't need to anger anyone or any group. And I don't mean to walk on eggs for the rest of my life. What I'm saying is better to think twice before doing something that could cause trouble.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
On a related topic:http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060203/ts_alt_afp/europeislammediaus
I find the reactions of certain muslims extreme. However, this one of the reasons why I believe we shouldn't be touching sensitive stuff like Religion and make a mockery of it. Fine, you don't believe in what their faith preaches. So why even criticize it? What do you gain by Angering people? That's the million dollar question.
And I do quite agree with Fred Hiatt in the article:
"If I were faced with something that I know is gonna be offensive to many of our readers, I would think twice about whether the benefit of publication outweighed the offense it might give,"
And this couldn't have come at a worse time. With last year Paris Riots and the recent victory of Hamas...this is just adding wood to fire. These are delicate times for all of us. I think we need to drop the whole current apathy behavior of our times that says "I'll say whatever I want and I don't care who I offend" and be more considerate to others.
If I know my freedom of speech is going to offend others....I'd rather keep it to myself. I don't need controversy on my shoulder. I don't need to anger anyone or any group. And I don't mean to walk on eggs for the rest of my life. What I'm saying is better to think twice before doing something that could cause trouble.
This is true but the issue has moved beyond that now. The reason the cartoons are being re-printed by papers across Europe is not to offend but to demonstrate.
The point is this. People CAN print offensive stuff, and it is very right that they are allowed to do so. Now, doing so might be juvenile and insensitive and even idiotic... but it IS allowed.
When someone does something idiotic and thoughtless... then protest, fine. Complain, fine. But what is actually happening here are threats of violence and death. This is showing the unpleasantness of the extreme side of Islam once more. And if they weren;t making such clearly immoral threats, the damn things would mnever have been printed outside of that first paper.
The other papers are making a huge commitment to freedom of expression, saying- yeah, these cartoons might be dumb. But they CAN be printed- and you sure as hell don't have the right to make threats just because they are.
Thoughtless as the original paper was, the pendulum of who this shows up as bad has now moved to the extremists.
On a personal note, I don't think it WAS that stupid. Christ is parodied all the damn time. There are people out there who get extremely offended because we don't force women to not go to school and to cover themselves up; doesn't mean we should never do it for fear of offence. Far closer to home, there are those very strongly and deeply offedned by equal rights for homosexuals on religious reasons. Are we going to not express that now?
It's such a trivial damn thing- BF is right, only idiots would get het up about it. That it is part of their religion does not excuse a damn thing as far as I am concerned; Belief systems are legitimate targets to mock, from Democracy to Marxism to Hinduism to ANYTHING. They are not like race (and calling anything to do with a belief system racism is a terrible perversion of that word), they are a matter of what you think in your head, not what you are. Any such thing can be attacked. One of the ways of showing clear strength is to persist despite mockery, after all.
while i do believe that caricatures of Mohammed go beyond the bounds of good taste they nonetheless can be printed, however Mohammed with his turban in the shape of a bobmb does say something about the current way that Islam is going these days. I dont think Mohammed intended to have muslims strapping themselves with bombs to go and blow themselves up in a crowded marketplace with women, children, and men who have no politics and are far removed from the infighting between countries like Palestine and Israel, however the moslems decide that suicide bombing is the only way to prove a point and to make it. The furor ove a caetoon is diplaced as they cannot see that these bombings cause as much if not more scorn against Islam than a drawing....if moslems find that much offensiveness in these kinds of cartoons maybe they should take a step back and try to police and rein in these people that give the religion a bad name. however reining in fundamentalists should be done by people in every religion and maybe cartoons and dark remarks will cease to be a reality and we can move on to other things that should be focussed on in this world....but hey, what do i know?
Indeed ,they can print stuff like this cartoon, Ush. To a certain level this is freedom of the press. However, my main point is the timing of this printing. Is it such a good idea to make something like this during a time in which the middle east and the Western relations aren't very good? And as mention before with the currents issues both sides are facing is this a necessary thing?
As much as I love bad humor and terrible jokes. I know when and where to make such comedy. It doesn't take a big brain to figure that this may not be a good time. Like for example would it had been funny to make a satire of Hurricane Catrina while many people in N.O. were starving and dying? Certainly not. There is a proper time to make such commentaries. Also let us not overlook the fact the guy who started this whole thing is probably gaining more free adverstising for himself and his newspaper. Which to me is what he really wanted.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Indeed ,they can print stuff like this cartoon, Ush. To a certain level this is freedom of the press. However, my main point is the timing of this printing. Is it such a good idea to make something like this during a time in which the middle east and the Western relations aren't very good? And as mention before with the currents issues both sides are facing is this a necessary thing?As much as I love bad humor and terrible jokes. I know when and where to make such comedy. It doesn't take a big brain to figure that this may not be a good time. Like for example would it had been funny to make a satire of Hurricane Catrina while many people in N.O. were starving and dying? Certainly not. There is a proper time to make such commentaries. Also let us not overlook the fact the guy who started this whole thing is probably gaining more free adverstising for himself and his newspaper. Which to me is what he really wanted.
agreed
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Indeed ,they can print stuff like this cartoon, Ush. To a certain level this is freedom of the press. However, my main point is the timing of this printing. Is it such a good idea to make something like this during a time in which the middle east and the Western relations aren't very good? And as mention before with the currents issues both sides are facing is this a necessary thing?As much as I love bad humor and terrible jokes. I know when and where to make such comedy. It doesn't take a big brain to figure that this may not be a good time. Like for example would it had been funny to make a satire of Hurricane Catrina while many people in N.O. were starving and dying? Certainly not. There is a proper time to make such commentaries. Also let us not overlook the fact the guy who started this whole thing is probably gaining more free adverstising for himself and his newspaper. Which to me is what he really wanted.
And when pray tell IS a good time for something like this? Are relations between the Islamic world and the West ever really good? Muslims need to realize their religion doesn't rule us. I'm willing to bet there's some type of terrorist attack in Denmark within six months. Should expressions like this cartoon stop? Absolutely not!