The muslims who are protesting may do so as much as they like. The muslims who are making death threats, burning Danish and Norwegian embassies and flags of many western countries are just shooting themselves in the foot.
If you're going to protest against cartoons of Muhammed with a bomb-shaped turban, don't do it by threatening to blow yourselves up, thus proving the point!!! Recently, the "Islamic Army" made a statement that any Danish/Norwegian captured in Iraq would be cut into pieces...again they only demonize themselves by resorting to violence.
I'm a pretty tolerant man myself, but I don't find it hard to understand that these actions are like fuel on a fire to many people about their views upon Islam.
I agree wholeheartedly (sp?) with you Ushgurak, the newspaper didn't commit to any faults in my view. If you can't tolerate to be critisized, you're fitting the stereotypical version of a muslim. I'm not saying you have to agree though, but that doesn't justify violent actions.
I think the re-printing of these articles are important, the muslim countries shouldn't be allowed to dictate what we print, and neither should any other religion/country etc. Freedom of speach must not be opressed by violence, that's for sure!
Originally posted by GCG
I am not Muslim and cannot comment. What i know for sure is that people who claim to be christian, do the same charicatures on Jesus himself.Like the one where he is running on water in the middle of a water polo match, takes the ball to score a goal.
I saw about the Muslims on last nights news, how they bombed the buildings etc. They have a right to be offended.
What happens when someone makes fun of the good Lord Jesus Christ? I'll bet that the Christians won't care about this, but heaven help when someone mocks their religion...
Who was it that drew these pictures, anyway?
The drawings came about because of a request of drawings of muhammed for educational stuff, religion classes and so on. Guess some artist thought satire was the best way to portray muhammed. So you can say people were invited to draw muhammed.
What happens when someone makes fun of the good Lord Jesus Christ? I'll bet that the Christians won't care about this, but heaven help when someone mocks their religionehhh what?
ehhh what?
But still even if an Israeli newspaper runs a funny comic of Jesus I very much doubt Christians will be burning Muslim countries' embassies.
But still even if an Israeli newspaper runs a funny comic of Jesus I very much doubt Christians will be burning Muslim countries' embassies.now why would they burn embassies of muslim countries because of something done by an Israeli (jewish) newspaper, I think Israeli embassies would be the one targeted
I'll bet that Christians won't care about muslims burning these country's embassiesthese embassies are embassies of christian countries. If you take a closer look at the Danish and Norwegian flag you will see they consist of a cross, so by burning those flags they actually burn the christian symbol over all christian symbols the cross. No i bet that slipped the mind of the ones screaming about insulting ones religion
now why would they burn embassies of muslim countries because of something done by an Israeli (jewish) newspaper, I think Israeli embassies would be the one targeted
EDIT: just realized I meant to say Israel and other countries with large population of muslims. Sorry.
In this instance, you can't compare Islam to the whole of Christianity. Some Christian sects, such as Protestants, would take just as much offense to a cartoon of Jesus or God as Muslims do of Muhammed. They may take a different course of action, but it the level of offense is the same.
Yes, we do have the right to freedom of speech, however we also have a right to be treated with respect. Regardless of the consequences, the newspaper was wrong to publish those cartoons. It was intentionally disrespectful and provoking, and it had to be obvious that nothing good was going to be gained by it.
People should not argue about, laugh at or insult things they do not understand. This goes for both sides - a lot of Westerners do not understand the depth and complexity of the Muslim faith, and a lot of Muslims are so deeply embedded in their religion they can't understand how others can make fun of it so easily.
If people would just open their minds to more information and understanding, a lot of conflict would be avoided.
Some Christian sects, such as Protestantsprotestants a christian sect?????????? oh man this sound like some catholic swada
would take just as much offense to a cartoon of Jesus or God as Muslims do of Muhammed. They may take a different course of action, but it the level of offense is the sameDenmark and Norway are protestant countries and they have cartoons of god and jesus everyday in the papers, no protests about it there
People should not argue about, laugh at or insult things they do not understand. This goes for both sides - a lot of Westerners do not understand the depth and complexity of the Muslim faith, and a lot of Muslims are so deeply embedded in their religion they can't understand how others can make fun of it so easily
Originally posted by gobstopper
In this instance, you can't compare Islam to the whole of Christianity. Some Christian sects, such as Protestants, would take just as much offense to a cartoon of Jesus or God as Muslims do of Muhammed. They may take a different course of action, but it the level of offense is the same.Yes, we do have the right to freedom of speech, however we also have a right to be treated with respect. Regardless of the consequences, the newspaper was wrong to publish those cartoons. It was intentionally disrespectful and provoking, and it had to be obvious that nothing good was going to be gained by it.
People should not argue about, laugh at or insult things they do not understand. This goes for both sides - a lot of Westerners do not understand the depth and complexity of the Muslim faith, and a lot of Muslims are so deeply embedded in their religion they can't understand how others can make fun of it so easily.
If people would just open their minds to more information and understanding, a lot of conflict would be avoided.
It might not have been very nice but the point is that the paper still had the right to do it, and the actions of Islamic fundamentalists in this matter massively dwarves anything the paper did in terms of 'wrong'.
Meanwhile, first of all, I doubt Christians would be AS offended, seeing as this kind of thing happens in South Park all the time and whilst it has caused outrage, it has not been anywhere near as bad. This ties into Islam's problem with Idolatry, and I say 'problem'; because treating idolatry as a crime is pretty insane by any rational standard; if you want to make odd rules about yourself, fine, but you have no business pushing such silly ideas on others, backed by threats of violence.
Secondly, the course of action has pretty much become the subject here, in how totally inappropriate it was. So by saying Christians would take a different course of action, you render that example irrelevant.
No-one is saying that they don't have the right to be offended or to protest; as part of freedom of speech, that right is celebreated (and in turn, people would have the right to see therir protest as silly, and so on). It's the WAY that it is being protested that hasd brought the criticism, and made this an issue not about mocking a religion, but of fundamental western freedoms under attack in the form of violent threats by zealots. It didn't have tpo be about that, but the extremists have made it that way.
I'm glad it was done, and frankly I do think good will come of this- it has exposed something that needed exposing.
protestants a christian sect?????????? oh man this sound like some catholic swada
Ummm yes, it is. As is Catholicism, Presbyterian, Greek Orthodox , Mormanism and many others. There are a lot of different sects and denominations of Christianity, but thank you for proving my point about conflict being born out of ignorance.
yet the muslim have no problem burning flag consisting of christian symbols, so much for their so called alleged respect of other religions as they claim are so dear to their religious practise
I said it went both ways. I am not excusing the Muslim extremists (note my use of the word 'extremists', I do not lump all Muslims together), I am just saying that I think the first newspaper to print the cartoons was wrong to do so, and it was they who sparked the latest violence.
Meanwhile, first of all, I doubt Christians would be AS offended, seeing as this kind of thing happens in Sotuh Park all the time and whilst it has caused outrage, it has not been anywhere near as bad. This ties into Islam's problem with Idolatry, and I say 'problem'; because treating idolatry as a crime is pretty inssane by any rational standard; if you want to make odd rules about yourself, fine, but you have no business pushing such silly ideas on others, backed by threats of violence.
Some Christians have practically the same stance on idolatry as Muslims, and so it stands to reason that some Christians would be just as offended, even if they do express it differently.
Secondly, the course of action has pretty much become the subject here, in how totally inappropriate it was. So by saying Christians would take a different course of action, you render that example irrelevant.
Not at all. I was replying to the original post, in which the author asked if the newspaper cartoons were insults to Muslims. Seeing as it was the cartoons that sparked the entire thing, they are still very much the subject.
No-one is saying that they don't have the right to be offended or to protest; as part of freedom of speech, that right is celebreated (and in turn, people would have the right to see therir protest as silly, and so on). It's the WAY that it is being protested that hasd brought the criticism, and made this an issue not about mocking a religion, but of fundamental western freedoms under attack in the form of violent threats by zealots. It didn't have tpo be about that, but the extremists have made it that way.
I am in no way arguing against that, in fact I completely agree. Both sides are in the wrong, I'm only asking that people look at both sides, understand the reasoning behind the actions of both sides, and have informed opinions.
Ummm yes, it is. As is Catholicism, Presbyterian, Greek Orthodox , Mormanism and many others. There are a lot of different sects and denominations of Christianity, but thank you for proving my point about conflict being born out of ignoranceyou are listing groups that are far to large to be called sects. Oh Im aware of sects existing within christianity, but usually and ordinary use of sects in those cases doesnt refer to large groups as those you listed.
I am just saying that I think the first newspaper to print the cartoons was wrong to do so, and it was they who sparked the latest violenceit went from boycott of Danish products to violence and those who erupted into violence and destruction is groups that benefit from the attention that act of behaviour gets
From dictionary.com:
sect ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skt)
n.
A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.
Sounds like Protestantism/Catholicism/all distinctly separate groups within Christianity to me.
it went from boycott of Danish products to violence
I'm not disputing that at all. Just don't forget that it was the publishing of insulting and disrespectful cartoons that resulted in boycotts, that went to violence.
and those who erupted into violence and destruction is groups that benefit from the attention that act of behaviour gets
Benefitting? From the further prejudice they are heaping on themselves? Although I do suppose the newspaper's benefitting from all the publicity it's getting.
quote:sounds like groups formed within the catholics and protestants etc to me
sect ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skt)
n.
A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.Sounds like Protestantism/Catholicism/all distinctly separate groups within Christianity to me
Benefitting? From the further prejudice they are heaping on themselves? Although I do suppose the newspaper's benefitting from all the publicity it's gettingyou have to look at who and where they rumble the most.
The newspaper printed thes cartoons 30 september last year, the escelation of this really started when an Iman in denmark showed a picture of muhammed with a pigs face on BBC, that picture was not among those printed in the newspaper.
The original reason behind these cartoons was that the newspaper invited artists to draw picture of muhammed as illustration used in a new book for educational purposes. All they got in was sartirical ones
p
a Dane has posted this "apology"
I see a lot of posters in domestic sites here in Norway has adapted this as a signature........so much for calming things down up here 🙄
Undskyld, fordi vi gav jer husly og hjælp. Undskyld, fordi vi giver jer en uddannelse. Undskyld, fordi I frit kan dyrke jeres tro i vores kristne land. Undskyld, fordi vi sender hjælp til jeres lande. Undskyld, fordi vi ikke kræver blodhævn. Undskyld, fordi vi ikke render rundt med sprængstoffer på kroppen., når vi føler os krænget.
Undskyld, fordi vi ikke bare gør, som jeres tro siger.
Men en undskyldning for at ytre os i vores eget land og efter vores egne love - den får I aldrig
Excuse us for providing you with shelter and help. Excuse us for providing you with an education. Excuse us that we letting you freely practise your religion in our Christian country. Excuse us for sending aid to your countries. Excuse us for not demanding revenge. Excuse us for not running around with explosives on our body when we are offended.
Excuse us for not doing what your faith demands. But you will never get an excuse for expressing ourselves in our own country after our laws
sounds like groups formed within the catholics and protestants etc to me
Sects of sects, sure, why not? It makes no difference, technically Catholics and Protestants are still sects of the larger group of Christianity.
As for the rest of your post, I don't know enough about it to properly comment. I realise the situation is extremely complax on both sides, the main point I wanted to make was that the paper chose to publish the cartoons, and in my view this was an insulting, disrespectful and unnecessary thing to do.