Jean Grey vs. Wonder Woman

Originally posted by the ninjak
Taking Phoenix Force away makes Jean way out of WW's league. Diana should be able to handle most mutants. With telepathy out of the picture Telekinesis just makes her a shell to brake. Oh yeah and thought speed being 300 k an hour is awfully slow don't you think?

Most people believe that the speed of ''thought'' is ultra fast but the reality is that it takes time for the electricity generated from the brain to pass through the nerves 🙁 (speaking for humans always)
And even if mutants brain are hardwired differently i dont think that they can match even 1/1000 the speed of light

Originally posted by kochtgr
Most people believe that the speed of ''thought'' is ultra fast but the reality is that it takes time for the electricity generated from the brain to pass through the nerves 🙁 (speaking for humans always)
And even if mutants brain are hardwired differently i dont think that they can match even 1/1000 the speed of light

There's a difference between reaction speed and the conception of a thought.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=3774&pg=1

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
There's a difference between reaction speed and the conception of a thought.

In reality there is no difference between reaction time and the concertion of a thought (the only difference is that in reaction time you think mechanicaly because you have gone through the same process many times so the speed is as close as possible to 300/hour, while in the conception of though you have to analyse the information you are getting something that takes much more time than to just react "whatever is written in a comic" 😮‍💨

Originally posted by kochtgr
In reality there is no difference between reaction time and the concertion of a thought (the only difference is that in reaction time you think mechanicaly because you have gone through the same process many times so the speed is as close as possible to 300/hour, while in the conception of though you have to analyse the information you are getting something that takes much more time than to just react "whatever is written in a comic" 😮‍💨

There is a difference. Movement requires chemical and electrical signals. Sitting like a vegetable conceiving a thought is spontaneous there's no quantafiable speed. This would work both ways for Diana and Jean but psi is thought and action in unison. I'm not saying Jean wins because Diana is immune to telepathy and I don't see Jeans shield holding but just want to throw that scan out there.

Wasn't it also stated in a Flash comic that he isn't faster then thought?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

Wasn't it also stated in a Flash comic that he isn't faster then thought?

No way, he's without a doubt faster than thought. He sometimes avoids Grodd's mind control by moving fast enough that the telepathic impulses aren't fast enough to have an effect, and there was a JLA where to attack some telepaths they did a rush with all the members who could move faster than thought: Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman, and J'onn.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
There is a difference. Movement requires chemical and electrical signals. Sitting like a vegetable conceiving a thought is spontaneous there's no quantafiable speed. This would work both ways for Diana and Jean but psi is thought and action in unison. I'm not saying Jean wins because Diana is immune to telepathy and I don't see Jeans shield holding but just want to throw that scan out there.

Wasn't it also stated in a Flash comic that he isn't faster then thought?

When I am talking about reaction time i mean only the process of thinking not of moving a hand or a leg or whatever which of course takes much more time and thinking its certainly not spontaneous because it requires chemicals and electrical signals to be created first which is a team work of each part of the brain (every part needs to communicate to each other) and then export the outcome of this process, and i am not counting that you must first import the information from the environment!!!

ps: You should first use common sense and not take for serious whatever is written in a "comic"

Originally posted by kochtgr
When I am talking about reaction time i mean only the process of thinking not of moving a hand or a leg or whatever which of course takes much more time and thinking its certainly not spontaneous because it requires chemicals and electrical signals to be created first which is a team work of each part of the brain (every part needs to communicate to each other) and then export the outcome of this process, and i am not counting that you must first import the information from the environment!!!

ps: You should first use common sense and not take for serious whatever is written in a "comic"

Different parts of the brain are responsible for different actions it depends entirely on the action whether or not your brain needs to work in tandem with one another. It's why certain brain damaged or drunk people can still function.

You're talking about processing which is the ability to pull information together, initiating a thought is quite an abstract concept and not really calculable.

Analyzing is moot since they're both aware that they're in a fight and if you're telling me that the electric signals in Diana's brain is faster then the electric signals in Jeans brain then I really don't what to say to that. I think I've only seen that stated in the case of Flash (Speedforce) and Kid Omega.

As for comics seeing how telepaths don't require a body to think your argument is moot here.

Originally posted by Q99
No way, he's without a doubt faster than thought. He sometimes avoids Grodd's mind control by moving fast enough that the telepathic impulses aren't fast enough to have an effect, and there was a JLA where to attack some telepaths they did a rush with all the members who could move faster than thought: Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman, and J'onn.

I still remember seeing it being stated.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

I still remember seeing it being stated.

Well it's been directly contradicted in both word and example, so if you're not remembering it wrong, it's still overridden.

Originally posted by kochtgr
When I am talking about reaction time i mean only the process of thinking not of moving a hand or a leg or whatever which of course takes much more time and thinking its certainly not spontaneous because it requires chemicals and electrical signals to be created first which is a team work of each part of the brain (every part needs to communicate to each other) and then export the outcome of this process, and i am not counting that you must first import the information from the environment!!!

ps: You should first use common sense and not take for serious whatever is written in a "comic"

I think we should take what is written on comics over what common sense tells us about real world speed of thought because the laws governing the fictional universes are impossible in real life.

The speedsters obsviouslly think and move faster than average humans can react to, but marvel's telepaths also think and use their powers much faster than normal humans. Quentin Quire generated and organized his thoughts at the rate of 10 million per second, emma frost, jean and chuck have made several refencers to subliminal time in which hours worth of telepathic application of power transpire in under a second. That scan also supports the superspeed of thought in marvel. I am unaware of any equivalent concept in DC

That said WW is still probably too fast for jean and almost immune to telepathy, so she wins hands down. Phoenix on the other hand would stomp her.

edit

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Different parts of the brain are responsible for different actions it depends entirely on the action whether or not your brain needs to work in tandem with one another. It's why certain brain damaged or drunk people can still function.

You're talking about processing which is the ability to pull information together, initiating a thought is quite an abstract concept and not really calculable.

Analyzing is moot since they're both aware that they're in a fight and if you're telling me that the electric signals in Diana's brain is faster then the electric signals in Jeans brain then I really don't what to say to that. I think I've only seen that stated in the case of Flash (Speedforce) and Kid Omega.

As for comics seeing how telepaths don't require a body to think your argument is moot here.

I still remember seeing it being stated.

1)First for every action a group of parts of the brain work together never something alone and if you take it further every cell of the brain needs to communicate with the others.

2) I am not talking about processing but for the process of thinking which includes everything you can think about.

3)even if somehow Jean manage to sent telepathetically signals to control Dianas mind while Diana goes to attack Jean, Diana can not stop herself in time, Before landing her hand on Jeans Head and stops any telepathical ability spondaneous after that.

4)I dont understant what you mean by saying that telepaths dont require a body cause every ability that they have comes from their brain even the ability to project themselves somewhere else comes from their body and if its destroyed they simple die!

Wonder Woman for the majority.

Originally posted by kochtgr
1)First for every action a group of parts of the brain work together never something alone and if you take it further every cell of the brain needs to communicate with the others.

Untrue it depends on the action it's why people with damaged brain tissue can still carry out mundane functions. It's also why intoxicated people can still carry out certain functions.

2) I am not talking about processing but for the process of thinking which includes everything you can think about.

You're missing the point the process of thinking involves initiating and that is an abstract concept it's impossible to quantify. Sure you can measure the speed of neural activity but that doesn't encompass thought in it's entirety. It's not exactly a physical concept.

3)even if somehow Jean manage to sent telepathetically signals to control Dianas mind while Diana goes to attack Jean, Diana can not stop herself in time, Before landing her hand on Jeans Head and stops any telepathical ability spondaneous after that.

First Diana is apparently immune so again I'm not saying WW loses I'm pointing out that the whole speedblitz thing is sketchy.

4)I dont understant what you mean by saying that telepaths dont require a body cause every ability that they have comes from their brain even the ability to project themselves somewhere else comes from their body and if its destroyed they simple die!

Emma Frost and Shadow King are examples of having their minds severed from their bodies and still being able to think.

Emma has also had her body shattered into millions of pieces and her conciousness was still there.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Actually, Diana is listed in JLA as being one of the people on the team who *can* move faster than the speed of thought; sublight speeds are orders of magnitude faster than thought. Merely moving as "conventional" super-sonic speeds in combat (which she can easily do) is much faster than thought.

As far as TK power vs. strength: Jean's feats are all over the place. As mentioned four years ago, Rogue, She-Hulk, and Juggs have all broken free of her control, and Diana is much stronger than the former two. WW has broken through powerful forcefields, a la' several Green Lanterns and Sinestro, with one blow via sheer brute strength. Her durability/resistance as demonstrated over the past decade makes an instant TK brain kill unlikely (damaging, certainly, and painful, but not enough to take her down; in the early 90's, well before several of Diana's upgrades, she took two bullets through a portion of her brain and survived -- her durability now is much greater, and especially against kinetic assaults, of which she is nearly as resistant as Superman.) Ironically, Jean's better chances (assuming she isn't taken down at the start) is to attempt to TK manipulate any powerful electrical sources in the area and try to shock WW from behind -- not a certain situation/technique, by any means, but one that would be much more effective than Jean using the attacks listed previously. Also, while WW's speed is considerable, Jean's other bit of leeway is that Diana isn't likely to speed blitz on the get-go, unless having reason to think it necessary; if Jean starts doing serious damage, then WW will speed/strength blitz her, so Jean has to be *very* clever/careful to eke out the few wins she would get. WW 7-8/10.

u guys say that wonder woman can break through JG force field....but if supes couldnt break through it, what on earth makes you think that WW can....explain that to me and I'll leave it alone.

if diana makes a move before jean its over. if not jean can mid rape diana

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
u guys say that wonder woman can break through JG force field....but if supes couldnt break through it, what on earth makes you think that WW can....explain that to me and I'll leave it alone.

OH yeah, WW strength is only limited....could barley lift half of a bridge.

Originally posted by Draco69
I'm not convinced that would work either. Her insides are as tough as her outsides.

WW is soft and doughy. 😍 her durability is only suppose to increase in conjunction with her powers.

anyways... Jean is a putz.... WW ftw...

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
OH yeah, WW strength is only limited....could barley lift half of a bridge.

She's also lifted city-sized chunks of falling stuff and helped move the moon.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Different parts of the brain are responsible for different actions it depends entirely on the action whether or not your brain needs to work in tandem with one another. It's why certain brain damaged or drunk people can still function.

You're talking about processing which is the ability to pull information together, initiating a thought is quite an abstract concept and not really calculable.

Analyzing is moot since they're both aware that they're in a fight and if you're telling me that the electric signals in Diana's brain is faster then the electric signals in Jeans brain then I really don't what to say to that. I think I've only seen that stated in the case of Flash (Speedforce) and Kid Omega.

As for comics seeing how telepaths don't require a body to think your argument is moot here.

I still remember seeing it being stated.

yes you really do need to use common sense, no one could move faster than they think, it's just not possible, you have to think about anything before you take action, common sense is good to have