The amazing borborad:
Dude. If you want to discuss swordfights with me please get yourself some knowledge about swordfighting instead of simply assuming that swordfighters won't fight serious from the first strike to the last. There is this funny moment in the fight where Anakin gives Dooku a two-handed swing and Obi-Wan is attackin him in the same moment and he blocks them with his blade horizontally above his head while handling his lightsaber one-handed.
Point being? They were slashing around a bit and they just stop attacking suddenly to let Dooku speak. It's not as if they immediately launched everything they got.
Anakin gives Dooku two-handed swings (form V) throughout the entire fight but suddenly he decides to...well...use more two-handed strikes and the very same form and overpowers him ? While we have seen Dooku blocking Anakin and Obi-Wan and once and toss them through the room with his force powers ?Use some common sense. If Dooku can control Obi-Wan and Anakin at once why would he not be able to control Anakin alone. Because Anakin wasn't fighting serious before ? That's laughable. We see Anakin and Obi-Wan having quite some problems with Asajj Ventress quite close before ROTS when they were fighting serious - why shouldn't they have problems with Dooku who is far more powerful and a far better duellist then Asajj ?
Just hear yourself "That's laughable!!" By the way, I don't care about clone war stuff that was made later than the movies. Maybe he couldn't control Anakin because he just couldn't as in he wasn't good enough. (oh! I said it, what a sly devil I am!)
Again: You're talking about three trained warriors here. You don't enter swordfights and "get cocky" after decades of training. You don't go into a fight without fighting seriously. That might happen in some nice sparring session with toy sabers but it doesn't happen in a serious confrontation in the middle of a space-battle in a full scale war.They were all fighting serious and Dooku took Obi-Wan out of the fight, then he taunted Anakin to use (instead of fight or control) his anger and has Anakin disarming him with a surprise action. That's it. And if Dooku wasn't allowed to kill Anakin (see the ROTS novel and the audio commentary where Lucas mentions that this scene should show that Sith Apprentices can recruit Jedi too), then he simply wasn't able to go all out against Anakin.
Oh, just hear Obi Wan say "Like whatever dude, sith are our specialty!!", they thought they improved enough to handle Dooku as if their victory was for sure.
And no, they didn't immediately get serious, they began, stopped, talked, went further on playing a bit (this is all doesn't last long) and Dooku punishes the fools. What we then see is Anakin and Dooku going all out. If holding back includes stop focusing on your opponent's actions and minimalizing your defenses then you are right about all of this.
I think it's very heroic that you tell yourself that but you don't really come across convincing here.
No. You don't have because you'd rather cry because of getting your pretty assertions exterminated every single post, right ?
Wow! You're like totally right, go celebrate! I tend to cry easily, don't I.
*Laughing the bumm off*
No. You aren't a "dumbass like we all". You are the King of Idiocy here. I'm making things up ? You mean like "Hey. We have three trained warrior entering a serious fight here. First they get cocky, then they try to test their opponent, not fighting serious until one of them decides to wipe the floor with his 2 opponents. And just after this the one opponent left decides that this might be the right moment to use everything he can against his enemy. This always happens in a 2vs1. Nobody fights seriously before the single person managed to take one of the other team out to make the fight at least look fair". That's what you try to tell us ? Uh-hu. This is especially nice against directs statements in the novel and from Lucas in the commentary - but nevermind. You must be right of course.
Are you playing games here? All your comments sounds so retarded.. King of idiocy after I state that at least I defend the one who has actually won? Go downstairs and ask your mom if that makes sense.
You keep forgetting that the beginning of the fight were they just get started is over pretty soon, you can prolongue that scene and tell yourself "OMG, he owned those suckers" but I frankly don't care. They mess around and talk a bit in the beginning and that is over soon, get over it.
What ? I did say that I don't believe that Anakin would win against Dooku everytime because Dooku was not using his force powers. Did you ever develop the idea that if Dooku can force choke Obi-Wan out of a duel situation without effort and we've seen Anakin stalemating Obi-Wan in their force push contest on Mustafar that he should be able to do the same thing to Anakin ? No...of course not.
The lightning was just another example.
Wow, that totally debased my response! Now, Dooku and Sidious still didn't use mighty powers to win every time they fought, now did they? Maybe because you have to wait for the right time? No, of course not, those mighty powers are insta-winners.
He did ? Watch Dooku vs Yoda and Dooku vs Anakin and Kenobi in AotC and RotS and then tell me that Mace looked as if he did the more impressive sabering. He and Sidious moved so freaking slow in their fight it's hilarious.
Impressive as in defeating Darth Sidious. That dumbass ataru fight in AotC wasn't impressive at all, Yoda made such useless moves and it basically didn't look practical or effective at all. Put Mace in that position and he'd hold off the green dwarve aswell.
And go watch ROTS again, it's actually a pretty fast fight until they back off, saberlock and switch to another scene. After we return, we see a lame ass ataru fight with some backflips and wide swings. We don't see much of what happens next (the camera moves in to their faces) but it's probably fast enough again.
Of course you tend to exagurate to what suits your case but I think you are bullshitting me.
What the...
Dooku took out Obi-Wan with a force TK attack. Dooku > Obi-Wan.
Anakin and Obi-Wan stalemated when trying to use force TK against each other. Anakin = Obi-Wan.
Can that mean that Dooku could do the same to Anakin ? Yes.The point is that Anakin's force sensitivity means jack shit because he's lacking control and training. He couldn't overcome somebody with a far lesser force sensitivity or potential then Dooku because the guy had 25 years of training advantage. How would he be able to overcome somebody who had 70 years of training advantage and more force powers + aggressive force powers like Dooku in a sheer force contest. Exactly: He can't because he misses the control.
Oh yeah! Dooku did major awesome force tk bs so dooku > obi wan, cool! And Anakin lost focus and shit and is force tk anakin = obi! Wow, that means so little that it hurts. Dooku blasted off Obi Wan when he got the oppurtunity, please stop talking about force tk math from now on.
I'm talking reaction skills, not who has the more force powers such as lightning. Dooku could've had more experience and have been a master at some form, Anakin clearly had better reaction skills or whatever you may call it due to his being more in tune with the force. Anakin managed to outmanouver the count!
I hope that you aren't losing sleep over the fact that you can't proof Mace Windu is more powerful or a better swordsmen then Dooku. Dooku didn't have any need to develop an own style since his was the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber to lightsaber combat" while Mace style doesn't focus on this one single situation of fighting (lightsaber vs lightsaber) but created a more versatile form.
That doesn't make him stronger in lightsaber vs lightsaber combat - in fact we have seen that he wasn't able to defeat Dooku when he already used this style before. So what do you want ? The apprentice doesn't have to be a lesser skilled lightsaber combatant than his master just because he's the apprentice. See Anakin and Obi-Wan - even in AotC Anakin gave Dooku more trouble than Obi-Wan did before. And another theory getting destroyed. Ups.
Woah! Awesome comeback! You hope I don't lose sleep over that you I can't convince you! Well don't worry. I'm saying that the completion of Mace's vaapad was more important than the few new tricks Dooku learned. The movie kind of makes it clear. But what pointless stuff do you have to tell now? Dooku could be better in fighting than Sidious? Well, I don't see a brat just surprising Sidious who defeated multiple jedi masters in a mere matter of seconds.
So no, you don't destroy a theory. I think it's pretty logical that Dooku just never reached the level of Sidious by looking at the movie. Mace however did show that he could keep up with people like Sidious and Yoda.
Why are you arguing so desperately about this anyway? Do you honestly believe that Dooku is much better than what was shown and that Mace isn't as good as was shown in the movie? I don't think you actually can come up with good arguments to support this theory. Sorry, you just don't come across convincing..
Yes. Of course. Because Windu will suddenly completely change the style that he's using for almost 3 decades in 13 years. And we still know that Dooku was able to beat Mace why we have no proof that Mace would be able to defeat Dooku. So what do you want ? Playing the pathetic Dooku hater ?
Even if I hated Dooku for some strange reason, would that be pathetic? And you don't think fighting with an incomplete form is just not as effective as it could be?