Are you kidding me? Put together the entire star wars history, the number of people, planets and ships. The numbers are astronomical. Who cares about the angels or that one God. Have the sun crusher rip the core from a nearby star and game over, or have the death star destory middle-earth. And dont say they can survive in Space you have no proof for it.
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Are you kidding me? Put together the entire star wars history, the number of people, planets and ships. The numbers are astronomical. Who cares about the angels or that one God. Have the sun crusher rip the core from a nearby star and game over, or have the death star destory middle-earth. And dont say they can survive in Space you have no proof for it.
Um... Akbar do you have any idea what you are talking about?
The Valar are gods and there is more than one of them... then you have Melkor who is more powerful than the Valar combined. Add this to... damn I forgot his name... I think it was Arau or Arua... something like that and it's already past overkill. WTF is anyone in SW gonna do against abunch of gods?
Yes, basicly. The Empire and republic build a base under ground, Manwe WTFpwns them by making the ground collapse on itself. They try to go underwater Elmo WTFpwns them by sinking them and crushing them with water pressure. Every starwars character relies on some factor of the planet their on, and so if the valar just take away those factors the SW guys are screwed.
Besides the fact that Frodo can simultaneously own Marka ragnos, Sadow naga, and Exar Kun all at the ame time.
Originally posted by TrayaStar Wars would just send the Death Star, kill everyone on the planet. Sure they would destory it afterwards. But they would only destroy the Death Star, if that's all Star Wars sends. Or can they just make another planet?
Travelling in space? Melkor had no problem with it.But seriously, every water world in the galaxy will be ****ed over by Ulmo, and Manwe and his posse can obliterate the rest, via Manwe whipping up gigantic winds, Melkor creating volcanoes and the rest just WTFpwning everything in sight.
Well unless they invade SW, SW have no chance, as in SW the all powerful creator is the Force, meaning that the Valar cannot change the natural elements as they see fit. Without the Valar and Eru in LOTR, LOTR is screwed tenfold over. The Ancient Sith were as close as to "Godlike" as possible, its probable Ragnos could taken down Sauron (The Strongest Maiar ) and the rest would be pwned.
However the Valar and Eru tip the scales in LOTR's favour majorly, unless you state the Force binds all things, then its possible SW Force Powers will have a greater effect.
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't LOTR only have one planet?And if the Death Star destroys it? What exactly are the Valar and Eru going to do when that happens? Unless Eru is God of SW as well i doubt he can do much unless he spawns another planet, which is likely to get screwed over.
However i agree with Traya, Melkor would destroy Ragnos, but i doubt they have the numbers and power to destroy every bit of SW techonogly. 14 Demi Gods and 1 God of LOTR cannot destroy a Billion spaceships, a few superstations ( Death Star, Star Forge etc. ) and over a trillion Soldiers/Force users. Honestly on Ground battle in Middle Earth the Valar and Eru win. But out in space where Eru does not control everything as SW is of a parallel Universe, i doubt he'll win. LOTR may have the strongest Character but they lack technology and numbers, there isn't much of a chance of them winning.
Now unless one of you people out there explain just how the Valar and Eru are going to deal with all those spaceships/spacestations and Planets where Eru does not have power over all nor do the Valar control the elements (The Force does in SW) they lose.
Invading LOTR wont be hard, every 10 years come out blow up Middle Earth, let Eru rebuild it and repeat the process. As long as the SW characters do not engage within Middle Earth they win.
Originally posted by Deception
Well unless they invade SW, SW have no chance, as in SW the all powerful creator is the Force, meaning that the Valar cannot change the natural elements as they see fit. Without the Valar and Eru in LOTR, LOTR is screwed tenfold over. The Ancient Sith were as close as to "Godlike" as possible, its probable Ragnos could taken down Sauron (The Strongest Maiar ) and the rest would be pwned.
Sauron the strongest Maiar? Pfft, that's fallacious. I remeber reading that Sauron surrendered to Eonwe out of fear...
However the Valar and Eru tip the scales in LOTR's favour majorly, unless you state the Force binds all things, then its possible SW Force Powers will have a greater effect.
I don't see force powers having greater effects than the powers of the Valar.
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't LOTR only have one planet?And if the Death Star destroys it? What exactly are the Valar and Eru going to do when that happens? Unless Eru is God of SW as well i doubt he can do much unless he spawns another planet, which is likely to get screwed over.
If the Death Star destroys it? Nothing, they fly into space and start to methodically WTFpwn everything in sight. It'll take them a long time, but.
However i agree with Traya, Melkor would destroy Ragnos, but i doubt they have the numbers and power to destroy every bit of SW techonogly. 14 Demi Gods and 1 God of LOTR cannot destroy a Billion spaceships, a few superstations ( Death Star, Star Forge etc. ) and over a trillion Soldiers/Force users. Honestly on Ground battle in Middle Earth the Valar and Eru win. But out in space where Eru does not control everything as SW is of a parallel Universe, i doubt he'll win. LOTR may have the strongest Character but they lack technology and numbers, there isn't much of a chance of them winning.
14 demi-gods? That's named Valar alone, and considering that Tolkien says that the "Ainur were of countless number" and that Melkor had legions upon legions of Balrog's sack Gondolin, I see the number being in the hundreds.
Now unless one of you people out there explain just how the Valar and Eru are going to deal with all those spaceships/spacestations and Planets where Eru does not have power over all nor do the Valar control the elements (The Force does in SW) they lose.
Typical argument, presuming that a certain person's powes won't have any affect in another universe. I see Melkor picking up Grond and smashing SuperSDs in two or Balrog's obliterating everything in sight.
Invading LOTR wont be hard, every 10 years come out blow up Middle Earth, let Eru rebuild it and repeat the process. As long as the SW characters do not engage within Middle Earth they win.
"Won't be hard"? It's no harder to comprehend than your fallacious statement that it'll take ten years for Eru to rebuild Middle Earth.
But you still haven't proven why the LOTR Powers would override SW Powers, which is the "All Powerful Force" here the SW Force or Eru's Creation power.
And who is invading who? Its typical, if SW invades another, it will have to abide by that Universes Laws, likewise with any other force invading SW. Meaning Eru will not be immortal nor will he have complete control, he may have his powers and yes the Valar and Eru will wreak havoc but nothing shows that they will pwn Star Wars.
Except apart from the Valar and Eru, they can't all fly and wonder into space, and except you can't do anything but speculate whether the SW powers will work on LOTR Characters and whether LOTR Powers will work likewise.
So your saying the Valar can whip up a force storm in or some technique they are never shown to have? Eru is not God in SW, he does not have that ability. And if the Valar can spawn Mountains in mid air, gravity will nulify its mass.
So your saying that SW powers and techonogly are not even going to scatch the Valar and Eru? Consider that they are not immortal in another dimension otherwise that would be pointless. Unless stated the Setting will be on neutral ground with the Valar and Eru and SW powers neither being dominant and all being mortal, otherwise a fight would not work. Unless you specifically state that the setting in the LOTR Universe and abiding by LOTR rules i don't see them winning here.
The most LOTR can Conjure up is a planet worth of prehistoric warfare in SW terms. None of the Gods there have even demonstrated power enough to attack an enemy of that size. Your speculating on what could be.
On Your Quote on the Valar flying into space and wtfpwning everything, where is the proof that the Valar can do this? Middle Earth has never been destroyed and hence you are speculating on their power.
Sauron the strongest Maiar? Pfft, that's fallacious. I remeber reading that Sauron surrendered to Eonwe out of fear...
Eonwe was the most powerful Maiar before the Second Age... but after Sauron made the ring he was more powerful than Morgoth at his worst.
Typical argument, presuming that a certain person's powes won't have any affect in another universe. I see Melkor picking up Grond and smashing SuperSDs in two or Balrog's obliterating everything in sight.
Morgoth at his prime would be able to do that of course, but a Balrog? A Balrog gets beaten single-handedly by freaking Elves. Hurin took down a few as well. A few clones could take down a Balrog.
And where does "Ainur can fly in space" come from? Every single Ainur who crossed the sea took a boat. And Morgoth was pretty much trapped in a void beyond Ea, which has an uncanny resemblance to space.
14 demi-gods? That's named Valar alone, and considering that Tolkien says that the "Ainur were of countless number" and that Melkor had legions upon legions of Balrog's sack Gondolin, I see the number being in the hundreds.
Legions upon legions? He said "host", but really, that was retconned in a letter when he said there were never more than 7 Balrogs.
Honestly, if ominpotent Eru gets involved its over. But Maiar and Valar were proven to be harmed by swords and mortals. If Elendil, Gil-Galad and Isuldur can take down Sauron, one of the mightiest Maia, why can't 3 Jedi? Why can't an ISD?
And for there to be Balrogs in this battle Morgoth cannot be at his prime. They were a result of his corruption. They were part of his Ring.
Originally posted by Deception
But you still haven't proven why the LOTR Powers would override SW Powers, which is the "All Powerful Force" here the SW Force or Eru's Creation power.
There is none. And there is no evidence to suggest the contrary either. We might as well work on a presumption the the powers of the Ainur and the powers of the Jedi will work in each other's galaxies an holdings, otherwise it'll make this fight...dodgy.
And who is invading who? Its typical, if SW invades another, it will have to abide by that Universes Laws, likewise with any other force invading SW. Meaning Eru will not be immortal nor will he have complete control, he may have his powers and yes the Valar and Eru will wreak havoc but nothing shows that they will pwn Star Wars.
This makes no sense. Imposing arbitary limits on who and what can use there powers where is silly. We might as well presume that they can use their powers in each others "areas" otherwise this is not even a versus fight.
Except apart from the Valar and Eru, they can't all fly and wonder into space, and except you can't do anything but speculate whether the SW powers will work on LOTR Characters and whether LOTR Powers will work likewise.
More nonsense. We might as well presume the Ainur can use their powers otherwise this is, as I've said before, a nonsensical fight.
So your saying the Valar can whip up a force storm in or some technique they are never shown to have? Eru is not God in SW, he does not have that ability. And if the Valar can spawn Mountains in mid air, gravity will nulify its mass.
Never shown to have? Manwe is given control of the winds, therefore it's pretty simple to presume that he'll be able to control the wind. It's simple deduction. And you keep on playing the "but their powers won't work card!".
So your saying that SW powers and techonogly are not even going to scatch the Valar and Eru? Consider that they are not immortal in another dimension otherwise that would be pointless. Unless stated the Setting will be on neutral ground with the Valar and Eru and SW powers neither being dominant and all being mortal, otherwise a fight would not work. Unless you specifically state that the setting in the LOTR Universe and abiding by LOTR rules i don't see them winning here.
More nonsense. I've adressed this point before...
The most LOTR can Conjure up is a planet worth of prehistoric warfare in SW terms. None of the Gods there have even demonstrated power enough to attack an enemy of that size. Your speculating on what could be.
Perhaps because they've not attacked aythign that size before. And honestly, why not just have Arien fly near the planet?
On Your Quote on the Valar flying into space and wtfpwning everything, where is the proof that the Valar can do this? Middle Earth has never been destroyed and hence you are speculating on their power. [/B][/QUOTE]
If Melkor can, then I'm presuming the rest of the Valar can, otherwise this is a silly fight.
So basically, your entire argument rests on the presumption that LOTR powers can't work in the SW universe, which is silly and makes this not even a fight, so...
QED.
Originally posted by Revolver OcelotEonwe was the most powerful Maiar before the Second Age... but after Sauron made the ring he was more powerful than Morgoth at his worst.
Nope, the Ring has no effect on Sauron's powers. If you'd have taken the care to read it more carefully, you'd have picked up on the fact that the Ring is designed to help Sauron dominate the other ring users. Presuming that it adds to his power when he's essentially siphoning off his power from himself and not another source is somewhat fallacious...
Morgoth at his prime would be able to do that of course, but a Balrog? A Balrog gets beaten single-handedly by freaking Elves. Hurin took down a few as well. A few clones could take down a Balrog.
Um, elves? Yes, when there were legions of them, in an army that was described as the mightiest in history, and considering that the fight they put up was enough to wipe out a demi-continent I'd say that your just making up bullshit now. And Hurin takes down troll not Balrogs, silly.
And where does "Ainur can fly in space" come from? Every single Ainur who crossed the sea took a boat. And Morgoth was pretty much trapped in a void beyond Ea, which has an uncanny resemblance to space.
Trapped? No, he was willingly searching for the Secret Fire, then we was unwillingly trapped. And why would space travel be necessary to the Ainur? There's no reason for travelling into space and then trying to aerially "travel" into Valinor.
Legions upon legions? He said "host", but really, that was retconned in a letter when he said there were never more than 7 Balrogs.
No, considering that he changed his mind later on. Later Tolkien sources > Earlier ones.
Honestly, if ominpotent Eru gets involved its over. But Maiar and Valar were proven to be harmed by swords and mortals. If Elendil, Gil-Galad and Isuldur can take down Sauron, one of the mightiest Maia, why can't 3 Jedi? Why can't an ISD?
Because Sauron died when the Ring was cut from him. Galad and Elendil died against him. Because an ISD will be ****ed if the Valar decide to change their forms into something small. There's nothing stopping
Manwe from taking the form of a small robin, travelling undetected to the ISD, re-forming and then ****ing it up, or any of the others.
And for there to be Balrogs in this battle Morgoth cannot be at his prime. They were a result of his corruption. They were part of his Ring. [/B]
Yes, but this is the entire LOTR Universe, I'm presuming this is with everyone from their primes, and even so, they can take this without Melkor...
Far to much speculation, this is leading nowhere. The one thing you have not proved is that the LOTR gods could survive in space. All Star Wars has to do is use the Sun Crusher to rip the core from a nearby star and destroy whatever solar system Middle-Earth is part of. As far As I know the Sun Crusher is indestructible. Nothing can destory it.