Originally posted by MadMadTitan
Sam, or anyone else, I am still having troubles interpretating that scan at the end of Planet Symbiotes where Brock is merged with Venom as one. It said no true Eddie Brock or no true symbiote. So from my point of view, after that complete merge, Brock shouldn't be killed by weapons other than sonics/fire because he is the symbiote himself, right?
It's not really about weapons, but that is true as well, it takes sonics or fire to weaken or seperate symbiote and in the very same issue Brock says that "the only way his(symbiote's) kind can die is by choice". He didn't become symbiote himself but they DID become ONE, but for some stupid reason authors then forgot about it and Brock was seperated from the symbiote again even though it was said "there will never again be a true Edward Brock, a true second self. There will only be Venom". It proves that Brock can't be killed unless symbiote is weak and not protecting his body properly and the only way to weaken symbiote is to use sonics and fire. Simple.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
The first one is wrong b/c of the under scores. The 2nd 1 does not have the ending url thing behind the JPG as seen above when I took out the first url.The pic is Venom after he had taken the Carnage Symbiot from Casady. He is sitting on a ledge with a notebook. On the notebook it has a "to do list." It says things like kill landlord, take symbiot back from Carnage and, of course, Kill Spider-man.
Sorry for all the trouble, I just think it is one of the coolest pics of Venom.
s104.photobucket.com/albums/m179/Ptr_Grifin/
I uploaded the pic along with some others to my photobucket account try this one.
imageigloo.com/images/2041What to do.JPG
YES!!! Finally.
And btw, can you tell me the name of this issue?
And what is the name of issue where he absorbed Carnage symbiote? I think this is the only books with Venom i don't have.
There is no proff that adrenaline effects symbiotes resistance to heat or sonics. I'd even say there are things that disprove it. Scorpion is not very powerfull as symbiote and spider-man recently took him out without trouble with collapsing building so we must assume that Gargan doesn't have enough adrenalin to be as strong as other Venoms BUT his resistance to fire is still on very high level, just like when Eddie is a host. So it still depends on symbiote and not on the host.
Well the symbiote does feed on this stuff brain generates (had something to do with love and Venom was able to gain it by eating people's brains or eating chocolate.) Methahumans would be more suitable host as their bodies have accelerated metabolism, they'd generate this stuff a lot faster than normal people do.
Now, this stuff, the symbiote uses to energize itself. I'm not saying that the symbiote would be more resistant to fire, but it's attributes would be on a higher level. Thus the symbiote would be affected by the fire, but it would keep fighting against it longer. A weak host (In this case a cancer patient) wouldn't be able to energize the symbiote, and thus the symbiote would be repelled.
And, the most logical assumption would be that Venom wasn't able to take fire that well in the previous cases, that the symbiote hadn't complitely bonded with him. (Btw, this whole bonding thing is getting very stupid as Venom keeps losing his costume, and getting it back 😘 )
Don't you think this would be a logical assumption?
But it makes no sense. What kind of pocket can protect your chest from getting cut through? And how do you explain cutted arm? These cases are evidence for me. Otherwise Brock would've been dead long ago. As for sonics and heat it simple to explain, that's what heat and sonics do, they seperate host from symbiote, that's why host becomes vicible. And in case of bomb Brock said that it has somekind of anti-tamper device, and he said "my other might be able to simply extrude it right out of our body". But it was complicated so he desided "to do it the old-fashioned way". Seriously, how do you explain all these cases i mentioned above, it is a proof of them becoming one.
Nah, it's still too farfetched. Do you have other evidences? By becoming one, you mean the host insides turns into this black goo? Or that the symbiote and the host work as one, healing the injured body as soon as possible?
I remember, Kraven once stabbing venom with his poisoned spear. Venom stated that his symbiote startted to repair the wound as soon as it was inflicted.
And that's just an assumption. You have no proof that he was knocked out at the end of the fight,
Yes I do. The fact that he wasn't moving, he wasn't getting up, he wasn't thinking, The Creep stated that the body inside is dying. And, after the creep heals his body, he suddenly awakens.. That tells quite a lot.
Man, just look at the fight again, first time Juggernaut hits venom Venom says "let's take this outside" , next time he hits Venom, Venom says "that tickles", another time Juggernaut hitted him Venom asked if he called him "sweet-heart", when Juggernaut squeesed his head Venom said "listen lugnut, there's someone else down here", then he started laughing at Juggernaut because he said he was unstopable. You really think that ALL that doesn't prove that Venom wasn't close to death or dieing from Juggs punishment?!
It tells me he's a crazy son of a *****. It's stated on panel that Venom was dying, this argument wouldn't need to go any further, now would it? I'm not saying Venom couldn't have been healing from the blows, but apparently the blows taxed on his healing factor, now when he used the last bit of his healing factor, he wasn't able to cope with the 2 last punches. Same goes pretty much with Wolverine everytime he fights Hulk.
Ok, take ANY Venom's appearance aside form this fight. Do you remember him being knocked out EVER without sonics or heat being used? The only time he was taken down with physical attack was in Venom the final where Spider-man through him from over 50 storied building and fell on him himself. Venom was out of his breat for few seconds and it was enough time to inject him with symbiote blovker, but after few seconds Brock was already fine.
He was in very bad shape when he was hit by a train in Carnage Unleashed.
His new "power" was claw and the only thing he did was making symbiote shar and he did that in other issues and he doesn't need virus to make symbiote sharp and it's a fact.
Anywho, he's not very familiar with the power, "oh dear. My new bone spurs -- maybe they're too much. -- MAYBE we can send them away, too" When was Venom's morphing powers first revealed?
besides this "reality" was actually Brocks mind freaking on him, so there was no way he learned something in there, he was simply fighting effect of virus and at the end of iisue he clearly gets read of it and my quotes above prove that.
No, it was a physhical thing as it is Juggernaut who pushes Venom into a rip in the reality. This new morphing trick was new to him, it's not sure wether it was caused by the virus or not. Venom's morphing usually does not behave like that. He was suprised when he was able to create those spikes on his arms.
If you take a look at the the first page in the first issue, they say the place where Eddie visits is an actual place.
And as for matching Juggernaut, there was nothing wrong with that, they were not armwrestling you know. In the fight Venom was only taking class 100 punches but he did that before, and he was using his speed and agility and was punching Juggernaut and he was simply falling and there was nothing wrong with that. Venom can destroy a truck or mini tank with his punch so no wonder it was sending Juggernaut flying since he weights MUCH less than truck.
Ignoring the fact that Venom wasn't able to affect Juggernaut in the first issue, but in the 2 & 3 issues he's smacking him, and causing him pain.
And, when Juggernaut punches him, nothing happens.. Does tell us something about increased durability..
Makes no sense. Virus started to die and it only means it effect was gone. And it's effect is "madness" this is how books called and that's what virus did to venom according to himself. And it NEVER been said anything about boosting Venom's strength, it's a popular myth around kmc to justify that Venom did pretty good against powerfull being like Juggernaut.
Well, maybe the increased power Venom got from the virus never left. Maybe he was upgraded permanently. The virus might have been beaten, but the the positive affects might have stayed with him untill he got rid of the entire thing. Admitted that this is about as farfetched as your statement that Venom wasn't nearly killed nor KOed during the first fight 🙄
And, of course Venom itself states that the virus helped him to "Helped us to skewer and pummel and kill'em all" That can be translated any way you want 😎
I already scanned all three fights few pages ago.
Even the pages where Venom was said to be dead, and his symbiote nearly pulverized by the pounding he recieved from Juggs? 🙄
Btw, thanks for the scans, but that still leaves lot to interperate.. Maybe he wasn't hit at all? I mean, he does have a speed equilevant to Spider-man..
Originally posted by Sam Z
imageigloo.com/images/2041What to do.JPGYES!!! Finally.
And btw, can you tell me the name of this issue?
And what is the name of issue where he absorbed Carnage symbiote? I think this is the only books with Venom i don't have.
Spoilers maybe,
It's Peter Parker Spider-man #10. By the way he ATE Carnage. It was quite cool how he went about it. Later in that issue he started to hiccup and the Carnage symbiote was breaking through his. Image red trendials coming out of his suit. For some reason I like the way that issue was drawn.
Sorry for the double post earlier, but the second post has my photobucket file on it and has more pics of Venom in it, take a look at it when you can.
Originally posted by JyppeI still don't see how his adrenaline would effect symbiote's resistance to fire 😕 Bu t yeah, i agree, all that bonding thing is stupid. I'd even say that authors are stupid because they forget about their books as soon as they finish it.
Well the symbiote does feed on this stuff brain generates (had something to do with love and Venom was able to gain it by eating people's brains or eating chocolate.) Methahumans would be more suitable host as their bodies have accelerated metabolism, they'd generate this stuff a lot faster than normal people do.Now, this stuff, the symbiote uses to energize itself. I'm not saying that the symbiote would be more resistant to fire, but it's attributes would be on a higher level. Thus the symbiote would be affected by the fire, but it would keep fighting against it longer. A weak host (In this case a cancer patient) wouldn't be able to energize the symbiote, and thus the symbiote would be repelled.
And, the most logical assumption would be that Venom wasn't able to take fire that well in the previous cases, that the symbiote hadn't complitely bonded with him. (Btw, this whole bonding thing is getting very stupid as Venom keeps losing his costume, and getting it back 😘 )
Originally posted by JyppeAnd that's pretty dumb of writers since poisons are not effective against Venom at all, take his fight with ghost rider, there was someguy that looked like Spider and he gutted Venom with his poisoned sting. Venom simply spitted it out and said it was tasy.
Nah, it's still too farfetched. Do you have other evidences? By becoming one, you mean the host insides turns into this black goo? Or that the symbiote and the host work as one, healing the injured body as soon as possible?I remember, Kraven once stabbing venom with his poisoned spear. Venom stated that his symbiote startted to repair the wound as soon as it was inflicted.
Originally posted by JyppeHe wasn't moving because Juggernaut didn't allowed him to move. He performed a combo and knocked Venom into the pit without givving him chance to stand back. Seriously, don't you think that ALL that talking and laughing at Juggernaut and after taking many powerfull blows Venom was jumping at him and he was fresh and then, he suddenly became close to death because of two punches?
Even the pages where Venom was said to be dead, and his symbiote nearly pulverized by the pounding he recieved from Juggs? 🙄Yes I do. The fact that he wasn't moving, he wasn't getting up, he wasn't thinking, The Creep stated that the body inside is dying. And, after the creep heals his body, he suddenly awakens.. That tells quite a lot.
Originally posted by JyppeNah Wolverine can heal from nothing, don't you know? 🙄 Anyway, there is no 100% possibility to tell if enom would've healed and kept fighting or not if he wasn't knocked in the toxins, but all his previous appearances pretty much show that he heals from physical damage very fast no matter what punishment he took.
It tells me he's a crazy son of a *****. It's stated on panel that Venom was dying, this argument wouldn't need to go any further, now would it? I'm not saying Venom couldn't have been healing from the blows, but apparently the blows taxed on his healing factor, now when he used the last bit of his healing factor, he wasn't able to cope with the 2 last punches. Same goes pretty much with Wolverine everytime he fights Hulk.
Originally posted by JyppeBut he wasn't koed. And still i gotta admitt that it was stupid. He had his eye hurt and it makes no sense seeing how host is never been hurt even after being cutted through.
He was in very bad shape when he was hit by a train in Carnage Unleashed.
Originally posted by JyppeAnd it makes no sense too, since in Venom the finalle and in one other issue (can't remember which one) he did that trick already, and virus was gone long ago (or haven't even effected him yet, not sure if that issue was before or after the madness).
Anywho, he's not very familiar with the power, "oh dear. My new bone spurs -- maybe they're too much. -- MAYBE we can send them away, too" When was Venom's morphing powers first revealed?No, it was a physhical thing as it is Juggernaut who pushes Venom into a rip in the reality. This new morphing trick was new to him, it's not sure wether it was caused by the virus or not. Venom's morphing usually does not behave like that. He was suprised when he was able to create those spikes on his arms.
Originally posted by JyppeHe wasn't causing him pain, it is simply not possible. He was simply punching him and Juggs was flying back and there is nothing wron with when you talk about someone who can destroy a tank with a punch. It's all about weight.
Ignoring the fact that Venom wasn't able to affect Juggernaut in the first issue, but in the 2 & 3 issues he's smacking him, and causing him pain.
Originally posted by JyppeNot really, he was taking class 100 punches before and in two latest fights Juggs punched Venom only once, and Venom was pretty far, it even seemed he rolled with punch.
And, when Juggernaut punches him, nothing happens.. Does tell us something about increased durability..
Originally posted by JyppeI'd say it is more farfetched than cutted arm though. 😗 But there are two point here. 1) It really NEVER been said anything about boosted strength. and 2) Virus clearly stopped effecting Venom after he got out from that reality.
Well, maybe the increased power Venom got from the virus never left. Maybe he was upgraded permanently. The virus might have been beaten, but the the positive affects might have stayed with him untill he got rid of the entire thing. Admitted that this is about as farfetched as your statement that Venom wasn't nearly killed nor KOed during the first fight 🙄
Originally posted by JyppeYeah, that Venom thiks too much of himself. 🙂 He can't kill Juggernaut. So when he was talking about killing he probably was talking about Ghost rider, Wolverine and Spider-man in that reality.
And, of course Venom itself states that the virus helped him to "Helped us to skewer and pummel and kill'em all" That can be translated any way you want 😎
Originally posted by JyppeNo problems. But there was no place for him to jump off or dodge especially since he was in the middle of the fight with the clone.
Btw, thanks for the scans, but that still leaves lot to interperate.. Maybe he wasn't hit at all? I mean, he does have a speed equilevant to Spider-man..
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Spoilers maybe,
It's Peter Parker Spider-man #10. By the way he ATE Carnage. It was quite cool how he went about it. Later in that issue he started to hiccup and the Carnage symbiote was breaking through his. Image red trendials coming out of his suit. For some reason I like the way that issue was drawn.Sorry for the double post earlier, but the second post has my photobucket file on it and has more pics of Venom in it, take a look at it when you can.
No problems, nice picture by the way.
And thanks for the issue name.
And as for other evidence i don't understand why you don't accept these. I don't know about the black goo but cutted off arm pretty much proves it since host wasn't hurt. And here's one more. When Venom merged with his clone, clone had one girl as a host. Well, she, symbiote, clone and Eddie merged and in result there was only Eddie and original symbiote left. Lets assume Clone became a part of symbiote, but what happened to the girl? She dissapeared, and the only logical conclusion is that she was a part of the clone and then became just a part of the original symbiote. So here's another reason to believe they become one. But cutted hand sound even more convincing I believe.
Well, there are lot's of things that don't really go with that theory. 😕
He wasn't moving because Juggernaut didn't allowed him to move. He performed a combo and knocked Venom into the pit without givving him chance to stand back. Seriously, don't you think that ALL that talking and laughing at Juggernaut and after taking many powerfull blows Venom was jumping at him and he was fresh and then, he suddenly became close to death because of two punches?
Well, maybe.. As maybe Venom's healing + durability were able to cope with the other punches, but when he took so many punches in so little time that it "burned out" his healing factor for a short time and then there was only one punch needed.
Nah Wolverine can heal from nothing, don't you know?
Anyway, there is no 100% possibility to tell if enom would've healed and kept fighting or not if he wasn't knocked in the toxins, but all his previous appearances pretty much show that he heals from physical damage very fast no matter what punishment he took.
He really hasn't faced anyone on Juggernaut's level before (Well, Hulk, but we know how that went out) It's still more than likely that Venom would have died without the Creep 😮💨
But he wasn't koed. And still i gotta admitt that it was stupid. He had his eye hurt and it makes no sense seeing how host is never been hurt even after being cutted through.
Somewhat agreed, a hit from a train wouldn't equal a full punch from Juggernaut. But the logical thing to assume is that the train hit somehow burned out his healing factor which is why he couldn't repair the damage done to the host. His durability saved him..
And it makes no sense too, since in Venom the finalle and in one other issue (can't remember which one) he did that trick already, and virus was gone long ago (or haven't even effected him yet, not sure if that issue was before or after the madness).
Afaik, they happened long after this event..
He wasn't causing him pain, it is simply not possible. He was simply punching him and Juggs was flying back and there is nothing wron with when you talk about someone who can destroy a tank with a punch. It's all about weight.
Yeah, but Juggernaut actually flinced in pain. (There are those comic stars and all)
And, Venom did hold him down in maddness #2..
Not really, he was taking class 100 punches before and in two latest fights Juggs punched Venom only once, and Venom was pretty far, it even seemed he rolled with punch.
It's Hard to interperate..
Yeah, that Venom thiks too much of himself. He can't kill Juggernaut. So when he was talking about killing he probably was talking about Ghost rider, Wolverine and Spider-man in that reality.
But he did pummel Juggernaut.. It could be a refrence that Venom did gain extra strength..
Originally posted by JyppeAnd the biggest problem is writers' bad memory, even if they make it obvious in one issue they completly forget about it in another 🙁
Well, there are lot's of things that don't really go with that theory. 😕
Originally posted by JyppeBut after all these many punches he was pretty fresh before the last combo 😕
Well, maybe.. As maybe Venom's healing + durability were able to cope with the other punches, but when he took so many punches in so little time that it "burned out" his healing factor for a short time and then there was only one punch needed.
Originally posted by JyppeI'd like to believe that, but... there was only adamantium skeleton. May be it's faulf of artists...
I still think that Wolverine was under the influence of the drugs Nitro has been using.. It's the only assumption my brain can handle. 😘
Originally posted by JyppeWell, i still don't think so, but who knows... after you remind me of that unlished scene i can't be 100% sure in anything.
He really hasn't faced anyone on Juggernaut's level before (Well, Hulk, but we know how that went out) It's still more than likely that Venom would have died without the Creep 😮💨
Originally posted by Jyppeby the way, Carnage was hit by train as well in venom vs carnage and it didn't seemed he was that hurt.
Somewhat agreed, a hit from a train wouldn't equal a full punch from Juggernaut. But the logical thing to assume is that the train hit somehow burned out his healing factor which is why he couldn't repair the damage done to the host. His durability saved him..
Originally posted by JyppeAll symbiotes are pretty equel in their abilities, so if Carnage and Shriek both can make their suit sharp i don't see any reason why venom couldn't, even without help of the virus. And remember that fight with Kraven? He cut him with his fingers.
Afaik, they happened long after this event..
Originally posted by JyppeBut Juggernaut hasn't struggled, it seemed hiw was in the mood to talk. Venom held Ironman once as well and doesn't really mean anything. And Juggernaut being hurt already makes no sense, he took Thor's blast in the face so there was no way for Venom to hurt him, with virus or not doesn't matter.
Yeah, but Juggernaut actually flinced in pain. (There are those comic stars and all)
And, Venom did hold him down in maddness #2..
Originally posted by Jyppe
It's Hard to interperate..
Originally posted by JyppeHe simply punched him few times and he does have speed that equels to Spider's and strength far greater than him, so another reason he was able to land attacks on Juggs without getting hit. If the virus really did boosted his strength that should've been mentioned somewhere. Beides all those scenes with virus starting to die...
But he did pummel Juggernaut.. It could be a refrence that Venom did gain extra strength..
And the biggest problem is writers' bad memory, even if they make it obvious in one issue they completly forget about it in another
But we can't ignore all the other issues in a favor of a theory..
But after all these many punches he was pretty fresh before the last combo
Yes, and it must've taxed his healing factor. He looks fine as his healing factor is still working, healing the damage done, then his healing factor is burned out by the multiple hits, leaving the damage done..
At least how I'd describe it.
Well, i still don't think so, but who knows... after you remind me of that unlished scene i can't be 100% sure in anything.
Can't really turn your head on this one, eh? 🙂
by the way, Carnage was hit by train as well in venom vs carnage and it didn't seemed he was that hurt.
Maybe Carnage is just tougher Mofo? 🙂
All symbiotes are pretty equel in their abilities, so if Carnage and Shriek both can make their suit sharp i don't see any reason why venom couldn't, even without help of the virus. And remember that fight with Kraven? He cut him with his fingers.
Yes, but this is apparently the first time Venom made his suit sharp. Maybe he the 'new' power stayed with him?
He simply punched him few times and he does have speed that equels to Spider's and strength far greater than him, so another reason he was able to land attacks on Juggs without getting hit. If the virus really did boosted his strength that should've been mentioned somewhere. Beides all those scenes with virus starting to die...
People usually interperate that Venom DID gain extra strength/power..
Originally posted by JyppeYes, but in majority of issues he takes fire pretty easilly, so it would be fair to assume that lighter thing was a bad writing..
But we can't ignore all the other issues in a favor of a theory..
Originally posted by JyppeMay be. His healing factor is different in every new issue almost like Wolverine's. I just judge by majority of his appearances and usually any damage he takes he heals pretty fast and i never saw his healing factor being overloaded.
Yes, and it must've taxed his healing factor. He looks fine as his healing factor is still working, healing the damage done, then his healing factor is burned out by the multiple hits, leaving the damage done..At least how I'd describe it.
Originally posted by Jyppe
Can't really turn your head on this one, eh? 🙂
Originally posted by Jyppe
Maybe Carnage is just tougher Mofo? 🙂
Originally posted by JyppeThat is really not likely seeing how authors forget about previous issues i doubt they desided to give Venom powers that appeared for a short period in only one issue... I think all symbiotes are capable of that but Venom is not a butcher like Carnage and he doesn't use it that often.
Yes, but this is apparently the first time Venom made his suit sharp. Maybe he the 'new' power stayed with him?
Originally posted by JyppeYeah but people usually talk about absorbing carnage symbiote and merging with clone. And in case of "madness" i don't know where that thing came from.
People usually interperate that Venom DID gain extra strength/power..
Yes, but in majority of issues he takes fire pretty easilly, so it would be fair to assume that lighter thing was a bad writing..
I was talking about the whole "Host becoming black goo like substance" - theory..
---
It's rather obvious that the whole lighter/small fires affecting Venom was bad writing, or the host and the symbiote hadn't bonded complitely.
May be. His healing factor is different in every new issue almost like Wolverine's. I just judge by majority of his appearances and usually any damage he takes he heals pretty fast and i never saw his healing factor being overloaded.
Everytime the host inside has been damaged, would prove that his healing factor has been burned out.. Why doesn't the symbiote heal Eddies Cancer? They said something about that Symbiote needs to bond with cancer patients for they emit lots of adrealine or something.. I can't remember.. but wouldn't it be in the Symbiote's power to heal Eddie?
Honestly? No.
But I'm still right..
Nah, i don't want this to turn into another venom vs carnage thread so i'll simply say that Venom beats him more often.
Doesn't mean Carnage COULDN'T be more durable..?
That is really not likely seeing how authors forget about previous issues i doubt they desided to give Venom powers that appeared for a short period in only one issue... I think all symbiotes are capable of that but Venom is not a butcher like Carnage and he doesn't use it that often.
Interperate it anyway you want, but it's definately certain that this power was first introduced to comics in this issue, and this was first time Eddie was aware of it 🙂
Yeah but people usually talk about absorbing carnage symbiote and merging with clone. And in case of "madness" i don't know where that thing came from.
I'm not sure if Venom did gain strength when he absorbed the Carnage-symbiote. Juggernaut6666 mentioned that Venom does imply that He's "strong as ever!!!" but that's hardly an evidence. KMC rules state that things said by the character himself really can't be used as evidence.. At least that was thrown around in a Wolverine thread 🙄
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
nope but spiderman never said anything like that while he was fighting him
Actually he has, remember when they fought on the beach? A loong time ago. Spider-man used psychology to fight off the symbiote.
Well, before that, when Eddie visits Aunt May, and Parker is shocked to find Eddie there. Eddie puts his hands on Aunt May's shoulder while Parker is trying to stop him from doing that with all his might. He comments that the symbiote is too strong for him..
Besides, something like that comming from Spider-man isn't very convincing evidence.
