Originally posted by Diunic
You are right Beyonder was retconned in an incomplete CC, now he is a minor omnipotent female cosmic being Kosmos. The feats of classic Beyonder were unconsidered since it.
Yea but where considering his feats here, and many think he(at the time)represented a power far above any character then or since.
Some even believe he might of been the inspiration for the so called "One Above All".
Originally posted by Diunic
But what are the origins of Eternity and the other abstracts?
It's a vague bio, but remember this deity is incomprehensible to us, so they did the best they could do.
Eternity has been around since all of time! The first time any other being knew of him, must have been in Strange Tales #138. As the first force of reality, followed by Galactus, then Death, if anyone is strong enough to destroy any of these three beings, all life stops and cease. He is a Cosmic Entity like others. Galactus, Lord Chaos, Master Order, and Death are also Cosmic Entities. Later, he actually met Galactus, after a group of Elders tried to destroy Galactus. If it wasn't for Silver Surfer intervention, the Kree race would destroy Galactus, but Surfer obtained the Soul Gem and give it to the Elders. Later, Quasar comes in contact with Eternity, and searches for him, for the universe is in trouble, and must be due to his current status. So on Quasar's search, he meets many M-Bodies of Eternity, showing Eternity at many different times in his life, and on one occasion, trying to get the Living Tribunal, to have Adam Warlock give him back him cosmic powers, which he stole from Eternity. In the end, Quasar and his guide Tathki, an Elder, find Eternity unconscious, and is the cause of the Infinity War.
The thing is, if Beyonder already destoryed the multiverse, which he did, why didn't the Phoenix Force or the TOAA interfere, Molecule Man, who was the second the most powerful being in the multiverse, had to recreate everything.
The Living Tribunal, the Abstracts and Rachel Summers(Phoenix at the time)could do nothing, as a matter of fact they all begged the Molecule Man to interfere.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The thing about the Beyonder though is that regardless of all the claims thrown around about him (mostly by himself) he has no on panel feats to back them up. Thats the crux of the matter. So while he may very well have been intended to be the ultimate power, there have been characters/powers introduced since then that have performed far better ON PANEL feats. Its the nature of comics to introduce bigger and better characters as time goes on so with no impressive demonstrations of power (in comparison to the likes of Phoenix, HOTU, IG etc) how are we to know how his power compares to them? You cant conclusively say he'll trump such powers when he has no on panel feats to verify such an opinion. Unsupported character claims just dont cut it and with the retcon in place we'll never know.
Dude what greater feat is there than destroying the Multiverse, but I have lots of feats ready to go if you wish, we can go toe to toe, your Phoenix, my Beyonder.
But for starters, let's see him destory the Multiverse.
I wanna see Phoenix destorying the Multiverse on panel, not you explaining her away.
In case you can't read that scan, though I know you can, but just to make sure.
Beyonder: "Your all History"
Narrator:
The Beyonder's death stroke rends the earth--and space, utterly destroying everything inn it's path--all the way to the ends of infinity!
Can't get much clearer than that, you say you read the Secret Wars II saga and it's issues in-between, must of missed this one.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You presume too much Mr M. 😉 I have all of Secret Wars titles and have most of Beyonder's Pre and Post retcon appearances, so dont you worry about me not being clued up. I just dont agree with what youre saying thats all. He just doesnt have the feats to back up his and your claims. Nothing hes done on panel, no output of power comes close to the top showings of the aforementioned powers.
Actually you weren't clued up,
if you had been you'd know what I've just shown you.
And like I said I have plenty of global, universal and multiversal feats by the Beyonder.
Originally posted by Mr Master
In case you can't read that scan, though I know you can, but just to make sure.Beyonder: "Your all History"
Narrator:
The Beyonder's death stroke rends the earth--and space, utterly destroying everything inn it's path--all the way to the ends of infinity!
Can't get much clearer than that, you say you read the Secret Wars II saga and it's issues in-between, must of missed this one.
Dont be silly MM youre gonna have to do alot better than that. Whats that supposed to show. Thats no multiversal feat, thats not even universal. 😂
Where does it say he destroyed a universe let alone a multiverse? That scan shows Beyonder dying and letting out an energy burst that ripped through space destroying everything within its trajectory, the direction it was emitted in, not that it destroyed everything.
On top of that please tell me how that is a multiversal feat? What statement conclusively tells us that? Youre extrapolating (www.wordreference.com/definition) my friend. You still have nothing. 😉
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually you weren't clued up,
if you had been you'd know what I've just shown you.And like I said I have plenty of global, universal and multiversal feats by the Beyonder.
Im clued up enough to know what im talking about. Your extrapolation of what scans you have provided suggests youre the one who's really in the dark. 😮
You have no multiversal feats, you have a handful of universal ones. Global feats are a non factor. 😄
Originally posted by Mr Master
The thing is, if Beyonder already destoryed the multiverse, which he did, why didn't the Phoenix Force or the TOAA interfere, Molecule Man, who was the second the most powerful being in the multiverse, had to recreate everything.The Living Tribunal, the Abstracts and Rachel Summers(Phoenix at the time)could do nothing, as a matter of fact they all begged the Molecule Man to interfere.
Where did Beyonder destroy the multiverse? I have no recollection of that. Youre extrapolating MM and without a statement to say he did or a conclusive on panel depiction you have nothing.
If you want to prove a point dont be so selective with your scans. What have you got to hide? 😖hifty:
Try posting the page before and the page after. 😉
Rachel did intervene but shes only a host as opposed to her mother who is a true avatar, the Phoenix in human form. Its stated on panel that she has nowhere near the level of power of her mother, that her access to the Force is restricted and yet the Beyonder says on a variety of occassions that out of all the beings he has encountered she is the one he considers most like him, that she has the potential to be on his level.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807094078.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/880715469.jpg&s=x11
When Rachel gives the Beyonder back the power he lent her, he gets an insight into what it feels like to be a Phoenix and it is too much for his consciousness:
Heres the follow up to your rather selective scan 😖hifty:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807575988.jpg&s=x11
The Beyonder did not destroy the multiverse, he merely sent a death blast through space. Where it ended be it somewhere in 616 or beyond who knows? You cant however extrapolate and say he destroyed the multiverse especially when the man didnt even destroy the Earth. How ridiculous. If he did destroy the multiverse then we wouldnt be reading about the adventures of our beloved heroes right now cos noone fixed it. 😉
Here are conclusive multiversal feats:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/5913134015.jpg&s=x402
Phoenix has saved the multiverse twice by containing the power of the M'kraan crystal twice, once in the previous universe and again in 616
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8808171532.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8808141113.jpg&s=x11
The previous multiverse was eventually destroyed by the M'kraan crystal when it was breached a second time in the previous universe by Dweller in the Darkness before Phoenix could contain its power. He hoped creation would see the resultant conflagration and die in fear (his power source) therefore making him virtually omnipotent. Before that happened Phoenix connected to all sentient life and saved it from eternal damnation allowing the creation cycle to continue, allowing (what would go on to be) the new Eternity to survive and gestate Galan(into Galactus)
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5307094756.jpg&s=x402
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5307212334.jpg&s=x402
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont be silly MM youre gonna have to do alot better than that. Whats that supposed to show. Thats no multiversal feat, thats not even universal. 😂Where does it say he destroyed a universe let alone a multiverse? That scan shows Beyonder dying and letting out an energy burst that ripped through space destroying everything within its trajectory, the direction it was emitted in, not that it destroyed everything.
On top of that please tell me how that is a multiversal feat? What statement conclusively tells us that? Youre extrapolating (www.wordreference.com/definition) my friend. You still have nothing. 😉
Beyonder didn't die there my friend, you talk good but you obviously don't read the whole comic, research your archives then debate, LOL also.
This incident took place when Beyonder and Molecule Man fought, Molecule Man who was only second to Beyonder could recreate the multiverse, sorry if you can't understand that but it seems when you see that others are as powerful or more powerful than your beloved Phoenix you search for logic and philosophy around the fact to dispute it, but don't worry it will be all proven here and now once and for all.
Just by you saying Beyonder died there proves to me you talk more than you know, but you do explain well, but I think you better stick to explaining Phoenix, otherwise read and study Beyonder appearances thoroughly and then com back, and by the way I hope I'm not being offensive, this is a debate.
Ok soon into the fight between CB and MM he ofcourse defeated him, he then said your all history and
"The Beyonder's death stroke rends the earth, and space, utterly destroying everything in it's path, all the way to the ends of infinity", this is the narrator talking so it's a fact.
Let's observe this quickly:
Rend: Definition from websters: tear (something) into two or more pieces
So he tears earth and space into pieces.
Utterly: Definition from websters: complete; absolute
So he completely destroys everything to the ends of infinity,
didn't know infinity ended in 616, LOL.
In your other post you asked why are there still comics or whatever if he did destory everything,
simple, because MM had enough power left over to shelter all living things in it's death path, as you yourself posted the scan, how is this possible?
Because MM was more powerful than all the multiverse's characters, yes including LT, Abstracts and whoever else and his control over molecules spans across the multiverse aswell, so he can disintegrate anything or recreate anything across the multiverse.
And this is proof that Beyonder could have destroyed the multiverse, when the Watchers gathered and unanimously agreed to interfere, because they wheere certain that the multiverse was on the verge of destruction by the Beyonder:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where did Beyonder destroy the multiverse? I have no recollection of that. Youre extrapolating MM and without a statement to say he did or a conclusive on panel depiction you have nothing.If you want to prove a point dont be so selective with your scans. What have you got to hide? 😖hifty:
Try posting the page before and the page after. 😉
Rachel did intervene but shes only a host as opposed to her mother who is a true avatar, the Phoenix in human form. Its stated on panel that she has nowhere near the level of power of her mother, that her access to the Force is restricted and yet the Beyonder says on a variety of occassions that out of all the beings he has encountered she is the one he considers most like him, that she has the potential to be on his level.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807094078.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/880715469.jpg&s=x11
When Rachel gives the Beyonder back the power he lent her, he gets an insight into what it feels like to be a Phoenix and it is too much for his consciousness:
Now your extrapolating(nice word)or simply making stuff up,
he never said it on a variety of occasions, he said it ONCE, in Uncanny X-Men 203, I have every comic of Beyonder's aswell, it's the only time he says it,
and he says she has the potential to be LIKE him,(what that means is open to debate), never he says or the narrator says to be his equal in power, you threw that in of your own accord.
Don't make stuff up!, to give Phoenix a higher status.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Heres the follow up to your rather selective scan 😖hifty:http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807575988.jpg&s=x11
The Beyonder did not destroy the multiverse, he merely sent a death blast through space. Where it ended be it somewhere in 616 or beyond who knows? You cant however extrapolate and say he destroyed the multiverse especially when the man didnt even destroy the Earth. How ridiculous. If he did destroy the multiverse then we wouldnt be reading about the adventures of our beloved heroes right now cos noone fixed it. 😉
I think I already answered this one, Molecule Man fixed it, jeez you post the scan and don't even read it, LOLOLOL
actually he sheltered everyone from the destruction, he then goes on to say he has every living thing is stasis in sub-space, and will bring them back later.
And that's how our beloved heroes are still around, not because of TOAA or Phoenix Force or Living Tribunal, because of the Molecule Man who was no joke in those days.
[QUOTE=6253355]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Here are conclusive multiversal feats:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/5913134015.jpg&s=x402
Ok no doubt, that is a multiversal feat, I'm not going to down her when a fact is a fact, then again I never underrated her.
But I have multiversal feats too:
Originally posted by Mr Master
[QUOTE=6253355]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Here are conclusive multiversal feats:http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/5913134015.jpg&s=x402
Ok no doubt, that is a multiversal feat, I'm not going to down her when a fact is a fact, then again I never underrated her.
But I have multiversal feats too:
Here Beyonder explores the Multiverse without even moving his body
