Classic Beyonder runs the ultimate gauntlet

Originally posted by Mr Master
It is clearly stated on panel that he shielded them from the death blast's path, and that he REMOVED not moved, every living thing, and that they're in Stasis, in sub-space, he also says, " I'll bring em' back later, if there is a later".

Let's understand that now,

Remove: From Webster's dictionary:
take away (something unwanted or unnecessary) from the position it occupies.

Move: From Webster's dictionary:
go in a specified direction or manner.

There's obviously a difference, when you Remove something you take it away, when you just Move something you change it's specific direction, like moving something from left to right.

Stasis: From Webster's dictionary:
a period or state of inactivity or equilibrium

Sub-Space: From Webster's dictionary:
a space that is wholly contained in another space, or whose points or elements are all in another space.

Wonder how All Living Things eneded up in Sub-Space if he only moved them out of the way, LOL!

Bottom line,
your the one who's full to the T with assumptions, and you twist facts so they cater to your opinions, but if anyone is reading and seeing this, they'll know I speak truth and facts.

And there's the famous scan, please read it carefully, so I don't think your being obtuse.

You seem ever so confused MrM. Why are you suddenly trying to argue over what Molecule Man did when that has no relevance to our Beyonder dispute whatsoever. 😕

You originally said that Beyonder destroyed the multiverse with his death blast, I questioned this by highlighting how the heroes were still alive and that there was no mention of Beyonders blast causing such total destruction. You then rather illogically said that Molecule Man fixed the destruction after Beyonder destroyed the multiverse, another assumption of yours, one not stated anywhere on panel as i later highlighted. I then posted with regards to the ambiguous statements within your "evidence" and you backed down and agreed that what you had previously presented as concrete evidence was actually open to interpretation as i had said all along.

Now for some reason youre trying argue with me over the extent of Molecule Mans actions. Youre going off on a tangent, there is no need it doesnt help your case in the slightest.

The bottom line is that Molecules Mans actions meant that Beyonder didnt actually destroy anything as stated, further dismissing your wild notion that he destroyed the multiverse (a notion you have back tracked on anyway so its all good 😉 )

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your gonna like this even more,

the question is how powerful was the Beyonder exactly?

Phoenix became one with the Matrix of the M'Kraan's energy field, enabling her to seal the breach, she didn't do this with her power alone, she had too become one with the Matrix, but I'm flexible, so I'll give it to her anyway.

And in the second incident where she "saves the multiverse" the rest of the X-Men help by becoming one with the lattice pattern surrounding the N-galaxy, again, she doesn't do it with her power alone, but I'll even give her that one too.

Incorrect on both accounts. No worries, allow GS to spell it out for you. In the first instance Phoenix interfaced with the crystal before applying her power to seal off the breach D'Ken had caused. Where does it make any reference to any other power being employed in the fixing of the crystal? Does it or does it not make reference to Phoenix having the power to contain the crystal and does it not state that Phoenix envelops the crystal before re-weaving its matrix? With all that in mind are your comments with regard to the first instance anything but assumption and unsupported speculation? ❌

As for the second instance which happened in 616 Phoenix is an energy being that resides within the core of creation known as the White Hot Room (which is accessible through the crystal) as such with the crystal aperture open she was being drawn back into the crystal. The X-men members as corporeal beings acted as physical anchors to the 616 reality so that Phoenix could employ her power on the crystal. They never gave her power they justed gave her the oppurtunity to use hers without being sucked back to her home dimension. Regardless the crystal as stated in Uncanny X-men 203 had the power to put an end to the Beyonder as we knew him to reduce him to his "primal state of unbeing" so its all good 😉

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/9409394988.jpg&s=x10

Please re-read the scans before continuing to spout such poor observation.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But what I'm about to show you is the Beyonder's power on panel being gauged,
without any help or add ons,

How powerful was Beyonder once and for all?

Not just more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not just several times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not just hundreds of times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not even just one million times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multi verse combined,

but MILLIONS of TIMES MORE POWERFUL than ALL the Power in the Marvel Multiverse Combined: ahhhhhhh!!!!

Ofcourse proof:

Without on panel proof conclusively proving the point then that line can be dismissed as hyperbole. Now with the retcon in place and Beyonder in the midst of a gender crisis I guess we¡¦ll never know ƒ¼

Originally posted by Mr Master
TOAA, eat your heart out...

If TOAA is Marvels supreme being then he would have created Classic Beyonder. 😕

Originally posted by Mr Master
Who in the history of comics has had that claim certified about them?

Being Millions of Times More Powerful than All the Power in the Marvel Multiverse Combined?

No one, except for Classic Beyonder.

This means it would take

Millions of Living Tribunals
Millions of Multiversal Abstracts
Millions of Phoenixes
Millions of Celestials
Millions of Galactuses
Millions of every hero and villian

to match Classic Beyonder's power.

The claim hasnt been certified anywhere. There snothing to show us its not hyperbole. When captions say that Wolverine moved at lightning speed are we to assume that Wolverine can and has moved at a third of the speed of light? 🙄

In his time Beyonder was certainly the most powerful being around however theres nothing on panel that certifies that statement as Beyonder hasnt performed a feat beyond what others have been shown capable of. Since his time, beings and powers have been written at levels on par with, if not beyond what he has shown to do.

Your claims in light of that are void. It was extremely naive of you to take such a statement as fact when it hasnt been proven to be so on panel or verified by other official sources. Sorry mate 🙁

Originally posted by Pepito
Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character

What he said. End of thread.

Originally posted by Mindship
What he said. End of thread.

Supposedly representing something and being said thing in comic book form are two completely different things. It really isnt that simple.

[QUOTE=6284292]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Irrelevant. The point i was making was that the Beyonder as we knew him died in the end.

The Beyond Realm is NOT everything that lies beyond the multiverse, it is an other dimensional universe that the Pre retcon Beyonder encompassed. Big difference. He was everything from the Beyond Realm NOT everything from beyond the multiverse.:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/otherdimensions/beyond.htm

GS, there's no real point in debating with you since all the proof in the world doesn't convince you, you think you know it all, no offense but you do, and when factual proof is thrown at you, you dismiss it with clever explanations that may sway the youngans at this forum but not me, but I'll respond to your posts for fun now and for others that read our posts cause I know that "on panel proof" is not enough for you.

Go to your own link and tell me where it says it's an "other dimensional universe", --- WHERE? WHERE?!!!!!

This is what it says in plain text:

Beyond our own reality lies the universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being.

What's beyond our universe?
One thing, the universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being.

[QUOTE=6284292]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Irrelevant. The point i was making was that the Beyonder as we knew him died in the end.

Not irrelevent, you thought the Beyonder died during the scan where he fights Molecule Man and you where WRONG.

That's why it's irrelevent to you now, because you where wrong, like you been many times but you wouldn't know that, and even if you did you can't except that, that's not me being judgemental either, you've proven that through out this thread, am I lying?

I'll repost a bunch of incorrect claims you've made about the Beyonder, because from the beginning of this thread you've been in the dark about the Beyonder, you've learned more about the Beyonder in this thread than you ever did from having his comics, once again I hope your not offended, you obviously have comic knowledge, but not much about Classic Beyonder, but your learning now, although you won't except "onpanel proof" anyway.

Originally posted by Mr Master
[QUOTE=6284292]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Irrelevant. The point i was making was that the Beyonder as we knew him died in the end.

The Beyond Realm is NOT everything that lies beyond the multiverse, it is an other dimensional universe that the Pre retcon Beyonder encompassed. Big difference. He was everything from the Beyond Realm NOT everything from beyond the multiverse.:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/otherdimensions/beyond.htm

GS, there's no real point in debating with you since all the proof in the world doesn't convince you, you think you know it all, no offense but you do, and when factual proof is thrown at you, you dismiss it with clever explanations that may sway the youngans at this forum but not me, but I'll respond to your posts for fun now and for others that read our posts cause I know that "on panel proof" is not enough for you.

Go to your own link and tell me where it says it's an "other dimensional universe", --- WHERE? WHERE?!!!!!

This is what it says in plain text:

Beyond our own reality lies the universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being.

What's beyond our universe?
One thing, the universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being.

Oh Mr M. Where do i begin?!! 😂

You claimed that everything beyond the marvel multiverse is encompassed by the Beyonder. I disputed that as there are many things beyond the Marvel multiverse and Beyonder has not been shown to have a connection with them. For example you have the New Universe, which is part of Marvels greater megaverse and you have the multiverses of other companies such as DC (which by canon is beyond our multiverse, but within the greater omniverse with their being canon crossovers). Does Beyonder encompass all of those things? ❌

Nope he most certainly does NOT. In one of the links i gave you which was his bio entry it states that Beyonder encompassed an other dimensional universe from beyond our multiverse. The other link to marveldirectory.com was in line with this and said beyond the mainstream reality lies Beyond Realm a universe which Beyonder encompassed. That is completely different to your absurd claims that Beyonder encompasses everything beyond marvels multiverse. Im sorry mate but the scan from the handbook proves you wrong quite conclusively. Better luck next time. 😱

he clears it he has power sevel million times the multiverse COMBINED

[QUOTE=6284292]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is a previous instance of him causing destruction across the multiverse, it is not the one you presented as proof of him actually destroying the entire multiverse, the one i disputed. So dont try and present it as such.

Either way it is clear that Beyonder has the capacity for multiversal feats, however the scene you initially presented wasnt sufficient proof of this.

Well ok, the specific scan I posted of him supposedly destroying the multiverse didn't say it was till ends of the multiverse but till the ends of Infinity, for you that's not clear enough, but my point was if he caused destruction across the multiverse before, which Molecule Man fixed and which I showed proof, why wouldn't that one be till the ends of the multiverse aswell?

and on panel proof of him it being across the multiverse by Molecule Man repairing the destruction, as it say's it clearly it was across the multiverse.

Originally posted by Mr Master
[QUOTE=6284292]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Irrelevant. The point i was making was that the Beyonder as we knew him died in the end.

Not irrelevent, you thought the Beyonder died during the scan where he fights Molecule Man and you where WRONG.

That's why it's irrelevent to you now, because you where wrong, like you been many times but you wouldn't know that, and even if you did you can't except that, that's not me being judgemental either, you've proven that through out this thread, am I lying?

I'll repost a bunch of incorrect claims you've made about the Beyonder, because from the beginning of this thread you've been in the dark about the Beyonder, you've learned more about the Beyonder in this thread than you ever did from having his comics, once again I hope your not offended, you obviously have comic knowledge, but not much about Classic Beyonder, but your learning now, although you won't except "onpanel proof" anyway.

NO. Its irrelevant because the purpose of this thread is to ascertain how Beyonder would fare against the list of assembled cosmics detailed in this thread. The particular incident in which Beyonder died in Secret Wars 2 has no bearing whatsoever on this debate therefore its a tangent we went which was quite irrelevant.

My poor recollection is something i'll freely admit to. Its no biggie, however it does not affect the argument at hand so as i stated previously and just to reiterate, it is irrelevant. 😉

Just give me a second, I'll continue to respond to your post's in order, as I post you can comment.

And I'm getting to all of them now.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Well ok, the specific scan I posted of him supposedly destroying the multiverse didn't say it was till ends of the multiverse but till the ends of Infinity, for you that's not clear enough, but my point was if he caused destruction across the multiverse before, which Molecule Man fixed and which I showed proof, why wouldn't that one be till the ends of the multiverse aswell?

It doesnt work like that Mr M. Just because we know Beyonder is capable of a multiversal wide level of destruction doesnt mean that every outburst of his is going to be on that scale. You tried to present your assumptions on that scene as fact and you were wrong to do so. Im just glad that you saw sense and admitted that the scene was actually open to interpretation.

Originally posted by Mr Master
and on panel proof of him it being across the multiverse by Molecule Man repairing the destruction, as it say's it clearly it was across the multiverse.

Thats cool. Still not the top feat of Marvel and still isnt proof that his later outburst was of the same scale. Just because he has the ability to cause such destruction doesnt mean every destructive output from him is going to equate to that level. Thats very naive.

[QUOTE=6284292]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In Uncanny x-men 196 Beyonder comments on Rachels extraordinary power level and comments on her being new to her power, he then says of all the entities hes encountered she is the being most like him and that she seems unaware of how powerful she truly is. Given that the focus of his comments were solely power related it is quite obvious that he was saying potentially she is the closest to him power wise, that is quite obvious.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807094078.jpg&s=x11

Actually he's talking about the entity which is the Phoenix Force, not Rachel herself:

Beyonder: "This Entity(notice the capitalization)Racehel's power is extraordinary"
The interesting thing is that I just noticed it myself by reading it clearly that Beyonder is actually saying it is the Phoenix Force that is most like him, this I don't dispute as we all know the Force is on scales unimaginable.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Just give me a second, I'll continue to respond to your post's in order, as I post you can comment.

And I'm getting to all of them now.

Go ahead. By all means do so. Its stated in the handbook that the Beyond Realm is an other dimensional universe. You have posted scans in this very thread i believe of Beyond being a sentient universe from Beyond. The point is non debatable. We know conclusively that Beyond the Marvel multiverse there is more than just the Beyond Realm. You are conclusively wrong to claim he was all that was from beyond the main multiverse.

All from Beyond Realm which is just a universe from beyond the multiverse. But thats something completely different. Sorry mate. 🙁

Originally posted by Mr Master

Actually he's talking about the entity which is the Phoenix Force, not Rachel herself:

Beyonder: "This Entity(notice the capitalization)Racehel's power is extraordinary"
The interesting thing is that I just noticed it myself by reading it clearly that Beyonder is actually saying it is the Phoenix Force that is most like him, this I don't dispute as we all know the Force is on scales unimaginable.

Complete rubbish and me and you both know it. 😉

He said "this entity Rachels power" hes referring to Rachel. He likens her and her power to a newborn star and then from that point on goes to refer to her as starsoul/childe on a number of occassions.

Nowhere is the Phoenix Force mentioned. That is an unsupported assumption of yours that you have no reason for making. Good try. Beyonder was talking about Rachel, the "limited" host.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats cool. Still not the top feat of Marvel and still isnt proof that his later outburst was of the same scale. Just because he has the ability to cause such destruction doesnt mean every destructive output from him is going to equate to that level. Thats very naive.

Let me get to this one right away, why is that naive to think that he could do that many times over and as many times as he wished? I mean for crying out loud the Beyonder had the combined Power of everything in the Marvel Multiverse(yes at the time)Millions of times over, what's the destruction of one Multiverse when you have the power of that same Multiverse in it's entirety Millions of Times Over.

You may not except that but on this one you loose if you deny this to be a fact.

PROOF!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Complete rubbish and me and you both know it. 😉

He said "this entity Rachels power" hes referring to Rachel. He likens her and her power to a newborn star and then from that point on goes to refer to her as starsoul/childe on a number of occassions.

Nowhere is the Phoenix Force mentioned. That is an unsupported assumption of yours that you have no reason for making. Good try. Beyonder was talking about Rachel, the "limited" host.

Never says "liken", clearly says AKIN, which means to be related to. Thank You Mate.

She's related to a young star that's just begun to grow.

See, you don't know it all, and in one word you twist the story to cater to your beliefs, but I have your dictionary link you like to post at people, so blame yourself, LOL.