Silverspider/Dizzle's Team Tournament: ROUND 2, Fight 1- illadelph12 vs. Blair Wind

Originally posted by illadelph12

Originally, he only needed Havok alone:

http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm56pg103iz.jpg

-why? cuz they have the same genetic dna

With the inhibitors, he needed 3 times the normal amount of power just to transform, and on top of that, Spiderman made the machine malfunction. Without Spiderman's influence making the machine malfunction, without the inhibitors, and without the need to channel the power of 3 cosmic mutates into himself to bypass said inhibitors, there is no way for you to say the power cable would effect Monolith on it's own, because it's never been shown to do so, and he's never been in that situation with all of those factors at any other time.

That was an isolated incident.

Dude it doesnt matter HOW he got the powers, he got them and was EVEN MORE POWERFUL. He bypassed the inhibitors, he didnt need the FF members anymore. He had the power and was 60 feet tall (30 feet taller than your own monolith) strolling around like the king of the world.
Its a separate matter on how he got those powers and how he lost them again.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Dude it doesnt matter HOW he got the powers, he got them and was EVEN MORE POWERFUL. He bypassed the inhibitors, he didnt need the FF members anymore. He had the power and was 60 feet tall (30 feet taller than your own monolith) strolling around like the king of the world.
Its a separate matter on how he got those powers and how he lost them again.

He bypassed the inhibitors though the machine channeling the powers of 3 members of the Fantastic 4 into him, and then said machine was rendered malfunctioning by Spiderman. By passing the inhibitors does not render them inoperable, especially considering he only bypassed them using instrumentation which was rendered to malfunction. There's no evidence that without these factors the power cable would effect him at all, because there's no way of knowing how the malfunctioning machine was effecting him or the properties of the power cable or the effect of the inhibitors still upon him due to the power transfer being interfered with.

If this was court, that would be circumstantial evidence and empty inference, and it would be inadmissable.

[Unless you were trying someone on drug posession charges in Merced County, California.]

Originally posted by DigiMark007
This most recent theory involving stealing Monolith's power is too convoluted for me to make heads or tails of. And I can't consider something to be a part of the fight if I can't completely justify the possibility that it would happen.

Monolith + the flight ring's defensive capabilities is pretty damn sick. Gamora would probably go down fast from the sandstorm, but KK's got a ring too and can take out all sorts of lesser-skilled jobbers. The Wendigos I barely consider to be a factor at all with more skilled, powerful, and smarter opponents pretty much everywhere in this fight. And the fact that Ill hasn't even mentioned Vertigo and I'm still leaning towards him says a lot.

I actually voted against him last round, but Ill has my (judges) vote.

Nice fight. And good luck to whomever wins.

My most recent theory is that I can electrocute him and he'll go back to Pharoah levels (as cap and she hulk did). Gamora and Vertigo died a long time ago. KK wouldnt be able to handle molten rock and sand mixed together. So.......how does he win again?

if my first attack is a sandstorm mixed with molten rock in a thirty mile radius how is anyone one his team gonna survive other than Monolith? and it seems hes weak to electricity....eh

one judge vote so far- Ill (Digi)
one popular vote so far - Blair (Kam)

Originally posted by illadelph12
because there's no way of knowing how the malfunctioning machine was effecting him

we do. It made him 60 feet tall. 😉

You haven't shown that Crystal could create a 30 mile lava storm. You showed her acting as a living Ionic Breeze air filter on the roof of her house cleaning up air pollution.

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Originally posted by Blair Wind
we do. It made him 60 feet tall. 😉

😆

That doesn't mean anything.

Originally posted by illadelph12
You haven't shown that Crystal could create a 30 mile lava storm. You showed her acting as a living Ionic Breeze air filter on the roof of her house cleaning up air pollution.

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and? I havent shown her to be able to create a firestorm with a scan, but thats part of her powers no? molten rock is still earth. 30 miles is the radius that I showed her powers could work on. It all comes together nicely

Originally posted by Blair Wind
and? I havent shown her to be able to create a firestorm with a scan, but thats part of her powers no? molten rock is still earth. 30 miles is the radius that I showed her powers could work on. It all comes together nicely

Uh, no.

Molten lava is a very dense, very heavy substance. Fire has no mass, it's a chemical reaction, and pollutants in the atmosphere are already airborne, she simply separated them. You have no evidence that beyond simply having lava spew from the ground she can create a "lava storm" and have lava (molten rock) flying around like air currents, and you definitely have no way of protecting 9 members of your team from it's effects unless they all stay behind her, which means I have an avenue of attack because all of my targets are in a general area due to you cutting off their ability to advance on the battlefield. Also, Crystal has to draw the Lava from the ground, there's no altitude limit on the battlefield, but I highly doubt Crystal could cover a 30 mile area with airborne lava currents of any altitude of a significant degree, if at all.

Unless, of course, you have a scan of her pulling something like this off and not simply being an air filter.

Shit, the Fram airfilter on my Grand Am purifies air.

Originally posted by illadelph12
😆

That doesn't mean anything.

he got more powerful. No where does it say he was already weakened. It simply states that he got a bigger dose of energy than normal and that electricity still did him in. Your guy is only 30 feet tall, and lightning works wonders

http://teacher.scholastic.com/researchtools/articlearchives/volcanoes/lava.htm

he seems to think that lavas pretty light

Originally posted by Blair Wind
he got more powerful. No where does it say he was already weakened. It simply states that he got a bigger dose of energy than normal and that electricity still did him in. Your guy is only 30 feet tall, and lightning works wonders

B-Dub, the effects of the machine were manipulated and it was malfunctioning due to Spiderman. That factor, plus the inhibitors, plus the fact that in this particular situation, outside of the norm, Monolith had to channel the power of 3 (three) cosmic mutates into his body instead of the usual 1 (one) in order to have enough power to bypass the inhibitors and transform, shows that not only is this not a normal occurance, but also there is no evidence that without all of these combined factors, and without knowing the properties of the power cable, or the other effects the malfunctioning machine had on Monolith, that a jolt of lightning, by itself, without any of these other factors, would have any effect on him.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
My most recent theory is that I can electrocute him and he'll go back to Pharoah levels (as cap and she hulk did). Gamora and Vertigo died a long time ago. KK wouldnt be able to handle molten rock and sand mixed together. So.......how does he win again?

if my first attack is a sandstorm mixed with molten rock in a thirty mile radius how is anyone one his team gonna survive other than Monolith? and it seems hes weak to electricity....eh

one judge vote so far- Ill (Digi)
one popular vote so far - Blair (Kam)

Not to interject into this but....

Vertigo could feasibly fly around enough (and high enough) to avoid most of the sandstorm. And seeing people and using V's powers on your team wouldn't be hard since there's not much place to hide in a desert. And there's always KK's wicked skill and ring capabilities to think of....both in avoiding death and bringing it to your team.

And if simply electrocuting him would work, Thor definitely wouldn't have a problem with Monolith...a few too many holes for be to buy into it.

...

Sorry, just felt the need to defend my points. I actually think this is a very close match.

Ill agree to disagree with you on that subject, because really to me, once he had the powers, well he was 60 feet tall and already Monolith.

also as to Crystals powers. If she can lift this much rock through the use of her earth powers and air currents, lava should be no problem.

http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inhumanscrystal2mr.jpg

theres also the fact that I could have three Monoliths, and when Monolith bumrushes us we can grab him, and then its a three on one battle. Crystal and Crystal (db) use her powers from the beginning makine vertigos scream useless and she would get sand in her ears, nose, and mouth. She has no protection like KK and Monolith.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
http://teacher.scholastic.com/researchtools/articlearchives/volcanoes/lava.htm

he seems to think that lavas pretty light

Thanks for the info.

[quote]"How fast does lava move?
Lava is not fast; you can outrun it. It is pretty common that people are most afraid of lava when it is really in the last and slowest steps of an eruption, after the gases have been given off by the volcano and the magma is cooling off. The hot Hawaiian lava moves at about a few meters per minute. The cool lavas move only a few meters in a day."[quote]

It also says lava reaches about 700 - 1250 degrees. Monolith can survive that degree of heat. 👇

That link helps my argument. It says lava is a mixture of molten minerals, and you're trying to compare that to filtering airborne gaseous pollutants. Liquids are denser than gases, and liquid minerals like molten iron and molten granite are FAR denser than cigarette smoke and boron gas. 👇

Also, as you're flinging lava around and it's airborne, it's going to be cooling and becoming rock again. 👇

And you still haven't shown that Crystal can create a "lava storm".

Originally posted by illadelph12
Thanks for the info.

It also says lava reaches about 700 - 1250 degrees. Monolith can survive that degree of heat. 👇

Also, as you're flinging lava around and it's airborne, it's going to be cooling and becoming rock again. 👇

And you still haven't shown that Crystal can create a "lava storm".

can he survive being bathed in it?

and lava doesnt cool immediatly so that arguement wont work

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Ill agree to disagree with you on that subject, because really to me, once he had the powers, well he was 60 feet tall and already Monolith.

also as to Crystals powers. If she can lift this much rock through the use of her earth powers and air currents, lava should be no problem.

http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inhumanscrystal2mr.jpg

theres also the fact that I could have three Monoliths, and when Monolith bumrushes us we can grab him, and then its a three on one battle. Crystal and Crystal (db) use her powers from the beginning makine vertigos scream useless and she would get sand in her ears, nose, and mouth. She has no protection like KK and Monolith.

That shows her slowly lifting a large, singular mass of earth, and it looks A LOT like telekinesis to the same degree Terra has, and she was banned if I remember correctly. It still doesn't show her toss tossing lava around like wind and creating a 30 mile wide lava storm like you're claming she could do.

eh, its not even moving shes holding it up. All Im showing by that is that she CAN move much more dense things. Terra was much more specialized in earth movement than Crystal is. The picture however does show that she can control dense earth. And if you look at her bio, it does state that she can mix the elements. It really just mixing wind and earth. (even though the wind makes a sandstorm, and the earth is REALLY hot)

Originally posted by Blair Wind
can he survive being bathed in it?

and lava doesnt cool immediatly so that arguement wont work

Bathing in molten rock of 700-800 degrees? Yes, he'd survive. Given his size and that it would take a while for the effects to reach terminal conditions for him, yes. If it was extremely hot like over 1000 degrees he may have an issue with prolonged exposure and wouldn't last long, but given that he can move at mach speeds, it's not an issue.

Originally posted by illadelph12
That shows her slowly lifting a large, singular mass of earth, and it looks [b]A LOT like telekinesis to the same degree Terra has, and she was banned if I remember correctly. It still doesn't show her toss tossing lava around like wind and creating a 30 mile wide lava storm like you're claming she could do. [/B]

Terra was mainly banned because she has created rock constructs that physically overpowered Superboy. The "TK" factor of moving rocks isn't really a big one for me, since it's pretty limited in terms of versatility, which is a BIG bonus of real TK. Crystal hasn't shown the ability to make rock soldiers, and so is perfectly acceptable.