Actually, aside from the EVIDENT fact that ROTJ Luke can't fight anywhere on the same level as AOTC Anakin (And yet you argue otherwise using other types of pseudoscience and unrelated feats which don't correspond to saber mastery) I don't see where I have to prove AGAINST Luke when you're the one making the assertions that he can kick ass. He can't. Period.
And you are a damn Luke fanboy, because we've had this argument before and I argued you down to nothing and you had to agree to disagree because you can't really prove your case without... unrelated Feat Wars.
I love how you totally take that fight as a stand-alone accomplishment that equates the experience and training of others such as AOTC Anakin.
Luke Skywalker was barely trained as a jedi and had not refined his saber style whatsoever. The fight was conflicted, possibly thrown by Vader. And just because A beats B doesn't mean A beats all that B beat before and of all time. TPm Obi-Wan beat Maul once, but can he do it every single time? Can he defeat those that Maul defeated? NO!
Don't be ridiculously biased. Luke is cool, but he's not a good fighter, period.
Obi-wan and Maul is completely different. Obi-wan won by a stroke of luck, Luke bashed the crap out of Vader. Still waiting for proof that Vader threw the fight too. I mean, what real reason did he have? He was content to let Luke die in ESB as he let Luke fall after he told Luke that he was his father even though he could have easily lifted him up with the force. He also tried to kill Luke when he knocked him out the window with the debris in ESB. To say Vader threw the fight is...unfounded at best. Luke knows how to fight somehow. He was able to defeat Guri in unarmed combat and she is much stronger then even a Wookie.
I love how Luke has as much training as Nomi Sunrider, yet you never complain about her being one of the strongest female force users ever.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Obi-wan and Maul is completely different. Obi-wan won by a stroke of luck, Luke bashed the crap out of Vader.
That's funny; I seem to recall Obi-Wan bashing the crap out of Maul too. But you're missing the point; the battle was conflicted, and Luke showed -very- little saber or battle savviness. Period. This is evident.
Still waiting for proof that Vader threw the fight too.
Aside from the naturally ambiguous nature of GL's battles, I'll just chalk this up to you seeing what you want. Everyone else and his mother sees, as I plainly do, that Vader wasn't trying at all to defeat his son in ROTJ but was trying to bring out the hatred in him and turn him. Even his fall to one knee and barely being able to withstand the blows is totally out of character for someone who can lift men over a foot off the ground by one hand. Luke, meanwhile, shows his awesome display of battle prowess by swinging his saber back and forth. Him and Karate Kid part 3 should get together.
I mean, what real reason did he have?
To turn his son. To obey the Emperor's wishes.
He was content to let Luke die in ESB as he let Luke fall after he told Luke that he was his father even though he could have easily lifted him up with the force.
WTF? Is this another "Out of thin air" Glentract theory? Show me proof that he could have stopped Luke from falling with the force. Hell, prove to me why the Emperor didn't stop himself from falling with the force, cuz we all know he loves himself.
He also tried to kill Luke when he knocked him out the window with the debris in ESB.
You could say that Vader was more or less toying with Luke that entire fight, since if you assume (As you are doing) that Vader didn't give a **** and wanted to kill his son, that fight would have lasted twenty seconds. Vader pretty easily dealt with Luke on the first saber pass.
To say Vader threw the fight is...unfounded at best. Luke knows how to fight somehow. He was able to defeat Guri in unarmed combat and she is much stronger then even a Wookie.
And Han knows how to fight somehow. But that somehow isn't as a jedi knight with extensive and rigorous training. So your point falls apart. This isn't feat wars, Glentract. Give it up.
I love how Luke has as much training as Nomi Sunrider, yet you never complain about her being one of the strongest female force users ever.
Nomi shows feats that are uber. ROTK Luke doesn't. Period.