Originally posted by Wesker
That's funny; I seem to recall Obi-Wan bashing the crap out of Maul too. But you're missing the point; the battle was conflicted, and Luke showed -very- little saber or battle savviness. Period. This is evident.
You need to re-watch the film. Obi-wan ends up in a pit without a lightsaber and at Maul's mercy. If Luke showed so little saber skill, how did he beat the crap out of Vader?
Originally posted by Wesker
Aside from the naturally ambiguous nature of GL's battles, I'll just chalk this up to you seeing what you want. Everyone else and his mother sees, as I plainly do, that Vader wasn't trying at all to defeat his son in ROTJ but was trying to bring out the hatred in him and turn him. Even his fall to one knee and barely being able to withstand the blows is totally out of character for someone who can lift men over a foot off the ground by one hand. Luke, meanwhile, shows his awesome display of battle prowess by swinging his saber back and forth. Him and Karate Kid part 3 should get together.
Why would Vader want to bring the hatred out of Luke? Why would he want to turn him? Vader was obviously fatigued after his fight with Luke, with multiple sources claiming that it was by only his last bit of strength that he was able to throw Sidious down into the pit. Even if Vader has extreme strength, his suit lacks extreme power. What I mean is, he can lift someone over his head slowly, but we only see him do that at very slow speeds. If Luke lifts 50 pounds over his head 4 times as fast he is doing just as much work. So no, Vader falling is not totally out of character.
Originally posted by Wesker
To turn his son. To obey the Emperor's wishes.
Why would he care wants the Emperor wants? He knows the Emperor is going to have him killed as soon as Luke turns, which is something we know he doesn't want(at least at one point he did not want to die). He wants the power to kill Sidious, but isn't going to die(before his redemption) even for that chance.
Originally posted by Wesker
WTF? Is this another "Out of thin air" Glentract theory? Show me proof that he could have stopped Luke from falling with the force. Hell, prove to me why the Emperor didn't stop himself from falling with the force, cuz we all know he loves himself.
Janus, you know the answer to this and you're either not thinking clearly or just wasting my time. We've seen him use the force on multiple occasions to lift things that would require more energy to lift then a person. Keeping Luke from falling was within his power.
Originally posted by Wesker
You could say that Vader was more or less toying with Luke that entire fight, since if you assume (As you are doing) that Vader didn't give a **** and wanted to kill his son, that fight would have lasted twenty seconds. Vader pretty easily dealt with Luke on the first saber pass.
Janus, are you asleep or something? I wouldn't expect such low quality from you. If Vader really was trying to kill him(as I have said) it doesn't change the fact that Luke was able to defeat Vader. Vader trying to kill Luke and Luke winning aren't mutually exclusive.
Originally posted by Wesker
And Han knows how to fight somehow. But that somehow isn't as a jedi knight with extensive and rigorous training. So your point falls apart. This isn't feat wars, Glentract. Give it up.
Do you have any idea who Guri is? In a straight-up fist-fight she would kill even Malak. Luke being able to defeat her unarmed is more impressive then you know.
Originally posted by Wesker
Nomi shows feats that are uber. ROTK Luke doesn't. Period.
This goes to show that it is possible that Luke could be very powerful even though he didn't have decades of training.
Glentract is right... Luke was had enormous power but he was too young and too untrained to realize.. Both the Emperor and Vader saw it and were scared of him. Just because the choreography of the 70's was total shit, doesn't mean Luke wasn't good with a saber.. In fact that's a terrible assumption to make, just based on the choreography. And I don't know if you recall but Obi Wan was gaining the upper hand on Maul when Maul used a force push on him and as we know, force powers are forbidden during lightsaber battles.
Originally posted by tdtd
Glentract is right... Luke was had enormous power but he was too young and too untrained to realize.. Both the Emperor and Vader saw it and were scared of him. Just because the choreography of the 70's was total shit, doesn't mean Luke wasn't good with a saber.. In fact that's a terrible assumption to make, just based on the choreography. And I don't know if you recall but Obi Wan was gaining the upper hand on Maul when Maul used a force push on him and as we know, force powers are forbidden during lightsaber battles.
Where does this mentality come from that early 80s choreography is inferior and therefore, Luke must be better?
Janus, until you make a solid argument against Luke, then I suggest you don't call me a Luke fanboy. Really, your arguments against Luke are crap and don't live up to the level of quality we are so used to having seen from you. In anycase, I think you should get out of your mentality that Luke is pathetic and stop telling others they don't get it when it is obviously you who does not understand it.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Janus, until you make a solid argument against Luke, then I suggest you don't call me a Luke fanboy. Really, your arguments against Luke are crap and don't live up to the level of quality we are so used to having seen from you. In anycase, I think you should get out of your mentality that Luke is pathetic and stop telling others they don't get it when it is obviously you who does not understand it.
In anycase, I think you should stfu.
You see that? You mean to tell me that, given the same situation, ROTJ Luke can do the same thing or better? You're a fanboy.