Silverspider/Dizzle's Team Tournament: Round 2, Fight 3- roughrider vs. stormfront13

i went back and all I saw in the posts for King_Mungi. all he did was

1.post a new bio for AOA aurora

2. correct RR on the 616 Aurora's current speeds after she lost a bunch (who isn't who RR should worry about, call it a blessing in disguise)

3. correcting that northstar and aurora had superhuman reflexes (which shouldn't even have had to be debated once aurora was shown zipping through a crumbling appartment building).

He never said anything along the lines of "That wouldn't work RR because SF's charactors could..." he simply said what 616 has been capable of in comics and that AOA was in use not 616.

sf says:

<<rider said that aurora doesn't have superhuman reflexes, and can only go mach 1. that was wrong so mungi stepped in to prove him wrong, which is what a person outside of the fight is allowed to do.>>

you're exactly right -- mungi stepped in and proved it wrong. that's the thing -- it's NOT mungi's place to prove him wrong, it's you're place. it's your debate.

and please show me in that other thread anywhere i took part in 'teaming up against you', or where i helped . . . whoever you fought. hell, i even voted as a judge FOR you. i also told scoob i didn't think what he was doing was vey cool and i think he understood and pretty much backed off or started asking questions rather than posting scans and feats and corrections.

i'm not anti-sf or anti-mungi (contrary to what you may think) and i'm seriously not trying to piss you guys off. i certainly don't think ill is either. i (and i'll assume he) just want to see YOU defend your characters and i want to see how well YOU know them.

i'm not even sure it matters much. rr may not even be around for the rest of this fight . . . 🙁

Mungi I will say this reading through some of your statements last night it appeared as if you were the one in the debate and not SF.

You may think what you did wasn't wrong I may think what you did for the MOST part wasn't wrong but it appears as if you are trying to fight for SF simply because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you should be the one giving it out. I mean I go through half the debates and go oh well this is true or a character can do this but it is up the debaters to prove and make me believe what a caracter can and can not do.

Actually, I don't resent what Mungi was doing - he was actually being helpful, as an Alpha Flight expert. There were bad links to Stormfront's characters at the beginning, and it was not explicitely stated that it was AOA Aurora; just Aurora. It wasn't said that it was Exiles Mimic either - I just happened to vaguely remember the draft arguement about him, and that it was the Exiles one.

I haven't enjoyed dealing with Stormfront's atitude here, is what. He posts his strategy first, I posted mine based on what my team should do, and he makes remarks like"You can't do that, I already killed that guy." I don't have access to a scanner, he's relying a lot on vague bios for what some of his characters can do, and criticizes me for doing the same. What am I busting my chops dealing with this guy for?
Maybe I just feeling like doing something else for a while.

Originally posted by roughrider
Actually, I don't resent what Mungi was doing - he was actually being helpful, as an Alpha Flight expert. There were bad links to Stormfront's characters at the beginning, and it was not explicitely stated that it was AOA Aurora; just Aurora. It wasn't said that it was Exiles Mimic either - I just happened to vaguely remember the draft arguement about him, and that it was the Exiles one.

I haven't enjoyed dealing with Stormfront's atitude here, is what. He posts his strategy first, I posted mine based on what my team should do, and he makes remarks like"You can't do that, I already killed that guy." I don't have access to a scanner, he's relying a lot on vague bios for what some of his characters can do, and criticizes me for doing the same. What am I busting my chops dealing with this guy for?
Maybe I just feeling like doing something else for a while.

of course sf is gonna say that -- it's his job, and he's trying to convince us all that he CAN do what he's saying. for your part, it's your job to convince us he CAN'T. post what you need to and let the readers decide who has made the better case.

you're not out of this by a long shot, but by appearing to give up and give in, it makes it seem as though YOU don't believe you can win. if you don't believe it, why should we?

Of course I believe my team has a chance to win. This is the first tournament I've been in, and we been going since beginning of January. I'm just feeling tired; spending a lot of time on these threads. Stormfront drowned his previous opponent in one similar post after another. Do I feel like another 30 pages of saying "Can!" "Can't!" "Can" "Can't" with him?

Originally posted by illadelph12
I understand Mungi is the Alpha Flight expert, but I still don't feel he's the one that needs to be clarifying mistakes about characters involved. That's all I'm saying.

It should be relegated to the combatants, and the others should just ask questions that will give clarity on their judgement of the battle.

yes, you would would be partially right if mungi was correcting about characters that were in this fight, he wasn't. he was correcting 616 aurora, i have AOA aurora.

you're exactly right -- mungi stepped in and proved it wrong. that's the thing -- it's NOT mungi's place to prove him wrong, it's you're place. it's your debate

it's also not my place to prove roughrider wrong about characters that aren't even in this fight. mungi proved him wrong when it came to 616 aurora, not AOA aurora, and i am using AOA aurora. see the difference there? mungi never stepped over the boundaries, he only talked about characters that weren't in the fight, he never once displayed a strategy for me.

and please show me in that other thread anywhere i took part in 'teaming up against you', or where i helped . . . whoever you fought. hell, i even voted as a judge FOR you. i also told scoob i didn't think what he was doing was vey cool and i think he understood and pretty much backed off or started asking questions rather than posting scans and feats and corrections.

you seem to think that proving faulty information about a character is wrong, which you were doing in the last match, along with many others. if you weren't one of the people who was doing it i apologize, but there were a lot. what people were doing to me in the last round, and mungi is doing here is exactly the same except that mungi is talking about characters that aren't even in here. all i was saying was that why is there such an uproar when mungi is talking about characters that aren't even in this, and last round, i got tons of argument from everyone else about what mimic could and couldn't do as well as AOA aurora, and no one even said a thing.

just want to see YOU defend your characters and i want to see how well YOU know them.

i was defending AOA aurora, which is the character i chose, mungi was defending 616 aurora and northstar, and both characters aren't even in the tourney. see the difference?

Mungi I will say this reading through some of your statements last night it appeared as if you were the one in the debate and not SF.

no, mungi was the one in the debate about 616 aurora, i don't have 616 aurora, so why should i debate about her?

You may think what you did wasn't wrong I may think what you did for the MOST part wasn't wrong but it appears as if you are trying to fight for SF simply because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you should be the one giving it out.

once again, i have never gotten any help from mungi. roughrider said that 616 aurora could only go mach 1 and didn't have superhuman reaction time and reflexes. mungi corrected him. but as many of you didn't notice, i am not using 616 aurora, i am using aoa aurora, so if he were defending a character that isn't even in this fight, why should it matter?

I mean I go through half the debates and go oh well this is true or a character can do this but it is up the debaters to prove and make me believe what a caracter can and can not do.

it's not up to me to prove anything about 616 aurora, seeing as i don't even have her on my team.

haven't enjoyed dealing with Stormfront's atitude here, is what. He posts his strategy first, I posted mine based on what my team should do, and he makes remarks like"You can't do that, I already killed that guy." I don't have access to a scanner, he's relying a lot on vague bios for what some of his characters can do, and criticizes me for doing the same. What am I busting my chops dealing with this guy for?

relying on vague bios? do you really want to go to the last round thread and see all the scans and everything i had? i didn't even post half of all the scans i could use in the last round, i know my characters, i was relying on vague bios for your characters. i mean honestly who has ever heard of thiafli. he's not even in the marvel dictionary books that were around the same time he was a character. and i'm supposed to debate that way here, that's how these types of things go. i don't know if this is your first one or something, but i'm supposed to say things like that to make the people believe i could win. that's how it goes. it wasn't attitude or anything, it's just all about making the voters believe your team can win, you have to be persistent.

Originally posted by roughrider
Of course I believe my team has a chance to win. This is the first tournament I've been in, and we been going since beginning of January. I'm just feeling tired; spending a lot of time on these threads. Stormfront drowned his previous opponent in one similar post after another. Do I feel like another 30 pages of saying "Can!" "Can't!" "Can" "Can't" with him?

yeah, tournaments last for a long time, i feel the sme way you do, but i really don't feel like giving up. and yeah, some threads last 30 pages, but if you honestly want to win it really isnt that hard to deal with people/stuff like that. when i was in my first tourney with nataku, our thread went to like 25-30 pages literally.

thing is, sf, that you are using several of 616's feats as evidence that aoa can do them. so in effect, it amounts to the same thing.

anyway, km says he'll lay off, which is cool enough for me. hopefully no one else will interfere like you say happened the last time, and you and rr can settle this mano-e-mano!

boxing

Originally posted by grey fox
10-20 bet that Sf makes a reference to storm at some point in his argument..... 😄

um....all of my team except phantazia can fly faster than storm..ther you go fox 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
thing is, sf, that you are using several of 616's feats as evidence that aoa can do them. so in effect, it amounts to the same thing.

anyway, km says he'll lay off, which is cool enough for me. hopefully no one else will interfere like you say happened the last time.
boxing

correction, that was last thread. i have only posted one picture of aurora in this entire thread, and that was to prove to rr that she had superhuman reflexes.

and you and rr can settle this mano-e-mano!

i am soooooo ready

so set my mind at rest -- what ARE the specific differences between aoa and 616. is it simply the max speed?

Iron Man - or Ultimate Iron Man - can propel himself through the air at superhuman speed, even if it's only Mach 1. But I don't claim he has superhuman reflexes because he can fly fast. He doesn't. And despite all the stuff printed about Aurora - even AOA Aurora - there's still nothing that proves her reflex reaction time is Quicksilver-like. No bio stat, no scanned feat. You may have something with Exiles Mimic having Wolvie's enhanced reaction time, but that's for h2h, and only half as much as him.
Heck, this location with the three short hallways, is great cover if I just want to blast all day at your group. If Thialfi finds any crossbows sitting in my chamber, he could join in and arrow Phantazia. All of your characters are vunerable to Ult. IM's neural scramblers and genetic lock shot; they would all be sick and vunerable for enough time to be gunned down by my other characters. No where to fly away to with only 20 foot ceilings. 😄

Originally posted by leonidas
so set my mind at rest -- what ARE the specific differences between aoa and 616. is it simply the max speed?

no, they have the same speed, reflexes, reaction time, the ability to shoot electricity, concussive blasts, blinding flashes of light. basically the only thing that AOA aurora can't do that 616 can is speed up molecules and possibly hypnotize people. we don't know if she could hypnotize people because she never tried, but since they supposedly had the same light powers, then she might be able to, but it can't be proved. and I'm glad we got this whole thing settled, and i apologize if i came off rude or anything.

Iron Man - or Ultimate Iron Man - can propel himself through the air at superhuman speed, even if it's only Mach 1. But I don't claim he has superhuman reflexes because he can fly fast. He doesn'tt. And despite all the stuff printed about Aurora - even AOA Aurora - there's still nothing that proves her reflex reaction time is Quicksilver-like. No bio stat, no scanned feat. You may have something with Exiles Mimic having Wolvie's enhanced reaction time, but that's for h2h, and only half as much as him.

you do realize that in a lot of bios, it doesn't;t even say that people like flash and quicksilver have superhuman reaction time right? it just comes with the power. also, since 616 aurora and AOA aurora have the same reaction time and reflexes, you saw the pic i posted with her flying through the house. anyway, iron-man gets shut off immediately. you know this, you have nothing that even suggests that he is immune to being shut off. i mean his armor needs hundreds of workers just to keep it going from mission to mission, and the fact that he was messed by lightning is just more proof for my case. phantazia shuts him down immediately. while thiafli is getting cut by mimic. thiafli doesn't' have much experience, and isn't even that durable, and is also slower than mimic. one slash across the stomach and he's out. then it's only horus and ray VS my whole team. horus is useless because his strength is useless, and both mimic and vindicator can absorb his solar energy, so what does he have going for him? nothing. it's only a matter of time for them to take him out of the fight. then it's my whole team VS ray. honestly, what would he do?

Originally posted by stormfront13
iron-man gets shut off immediately. you know this, you have nothing that even suggests that he is immune to being shut off. i mean his armor needs hundreds of workers just to keep it going from mission to mission, and the fact that he was messed by lightning is just more proof for my case.

I don't think that lightning thing ever happened

The genetic lock shot depowers three of your team members long enough for my guys to kill them. Then, it's just Vindicator against my four. What does she do then?

Originally posted by Scoobless
I don't think that lightning thing ever happened

i am like 95% positive it happened, it was one of the times that he fought thor. i was flipping through one of the ultimates tpb's and i saw tony being hit by a lightning bolt and after that his suit didn't function right. thor was there and he looked pisssed at tony, so i assumed it was him that did it.

Originally posted by roughrider
The genetic lock shot depowers three of your team members long enough for my guys to kill them. Then, it's just Vindicator against my four. What does she do then?

tony doesn't have time to get the genetic lock off before he's shut down, and even if he did all my characters are in a force-field, and phantazia can just reverse the affects. she has been depowered before and the affects were useless. also, even if it did happen, vindicator is more than capable of holding them off. surround them in a force-field, create lava walls, as a distraction, and while they are taking cover, surround them in hardened lava. and for anyne in a force-field, i posted a pic of her affecting mac-clone inside a force-field.

what is the range of phantazia's power? could she for instance be struck by tony before she was in range to shut him down?

oh, and no worries about being rude. all's cool my friend! 😄

Originally posted by leonidas
what is the range of phantazia's power? could she for instance be struck by tony before she was in range to shut him down?

well the range is pretty far, she's been able to hit opponents that were very far away from her, though she is going into this with her force-field up and ready for attack, and all she needs is like a split second to shut down his armor, and even if he had his force-field up she could still tag him because she doesn't need a blast or anything to shut down machinery.

oh, and no worries about being rude. all's cool my friend! 😄

good, i'm glad 🙂 i try to avoid confrontation with many people, and thats one of the reasons i'm not very good at debating