Creation of the universe

I honestly don't know how anyone could look at the universe, and all the complexity of it and not believe in Intelligent Design. Move the sun one centimeter closer to the earth and we go up in flames, move it one centimeter further from the earth and we freeze. Have you ever studied the stars and realized how utterly HUGE they are, and how far away they are? Have you taken time to explore the ocean, each lake and river, each mountain and hill? Look at the tiniest ant or each blade of grass. Examine your own body, made to last. Each hair serves its purpose. Pull one out, and another grows back. When skin is injured, it repairs itself. Think about human life, conception, birth. How could any of these things just happen? The universe is far too wonderful and expansive and intricate to have just happened. God created it, and us. And, He sure knew what He was doing!

I do believe the Bible to be authoritative, but I am unsure as to which stories were written to be taken literally. I don't doubt the creation story, for I am sure God could have done it exactly like that if He wanted to. I'm just not sure if He did it all in 6 24 hour days and rested on the 7th. I do, however, believe 100% that God created the universe and all that is good in it. God gave us, as well as His angels, free will, that is why evil exists today.

For those of you who doubt God, I feel as though it is because you don't realize how amazing you are. You were made in the image of God, every detail of your body is complex and intricate. Yet, many of you doubt your own existence. If you could for one moment realize how amazing you are, then maybe you could realize how AMAZING God is to have been able to create you and the universe that surrounds you. I think it starts with believing in yourself.

Move the sun one centimeter closer to the earth and we go up in flames, move it one centimeter further from the earth and we freeze.

Bullshit. You know that the Earth isn't orbitting the Sun in a circle, right? It's orbitting in an elipse. And what does that mean? It means that the Earth's distance from the Sun is constantly changing! By a hell of a lot more than one centimeter, at that.

Examine your own body, made to last. Each hair serves its purpose.

But the appendix, a big ol' organ, doesn't.

Look, I don't care if you don't understand evolution or cosmology, but doesn't it embarass you wave your ignorance around like this? If you don't understand something, don't try to comment on it.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I honestly don't know how anyone could look at the universe, and all the complexity of it and not believe in Intelligent Design. Move the sun one centimeter closer to the earth and we go up in flames, move it one centimeter further from the earth and we freeze. Have you ever studied the stars and realized how utterly HUGE they are, and how far away they are? Have you taken time to explore the ocean, each lake and river, each mountain and hill? Look at the tiniest ant or each blade of grass. Examine your own body, made to last. Each hair serves its purpose. Pull one out, and another grows back. When skin is injured, it repairs itself. Think about human life, conception, birth. How could any of these things just happen? The universe is far too wonderful and expansive and intricate to have just happened. God created it, and us. And, He sure knew what He was doing!

I do believe the Bible to be authoritative, but I am unsure as to which stories were written to be taken literally. I don't doubt the creation story, for I am sure God could have done it exactly like that if He wanted to. I'm just not sure if He did it all in 6 24 hour days and rested on the 7th. I do, however, believe 100% that God created the universe and all that is good in it. God gave us, as well as His angels, free will, that is why evil exists today.

For those of you who doubt God, I feel as though it is because you don't realize how amazing you are. You were made in the image of God, every detail of your body is complex and intricate. Yet, many of you doubt your own existence. If you could for one moment realize how amazing you are, then maybe you could realize how AMAZING God is to have been able to create you and the universe that surrounds you. I think it starts with believing in yourself.

Your facts are off. You could move the sun a lot more then centimeter, but I get your point. But there is another possibility, we are here because this is the only place were we could evolve.

Also I know that Intelligent Design is not Intelligent Design. It is a code word for Christianity. For my belief would latterly fit under Intelligent Design, but would be rejected by every Intelligent Design supporter because it is not Christianity.

I believe in myself, I just don’t believe in the myth that you are supporting. You can believe in Christianity all you wish, but please do not judge other people who you do not know based upon your mythology.

Originally posted by Gregory
Bullshit. You know that the Earth isn't orbitting the Sun in a circle, right? It's orbitting in an elipse. And what does that mean? It means that the Earth's distance from the Sun is constantly changing! By a hell of a lot more than one centimeter, at that.

But the appendix, a big ol' organ, doesn't.

Look, I don't care if you don't understand evolution or cosmology, but doesn't it embarass you wave your ignorance around like this? If you don't understand something, don't try to comment on it.

so, i'm sorry that my technical terms weren't 100% correct. but the whole orbit deal is what i meant. if the earth orbitted the sun any closer, we would fry, any further and we would freeze. forgive me for being human and using basic terms.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your facts are off. You could move the sun a lot more then centimeter, but I get your point. But there is another possibility, we are here because this is the only place were we could evolve.

Also I know that Intelligent Design is not Intelligent Design. It is a code word for Christianity. For my belief would latterly fit under Intelligent Design, but would be rejected by every Intelligent Design supporter because it is not Christianity.

I believe in myself, I just don’t believe in the myth that you are supporting. You can believe in Christianity all you wish, but please do not judge other people who you do not know based upon your mythology.

I know my facts might not be right on target, but I don't claim to be a scientist. Thank you for not totally condemning me in that aspect, as others have done. You are right, Itelligent Design is code for Christianity and the belief that God is the Intelligent Designer. You are also right in the fact that we are on earth because it is the only place we can survive. God created it so that we could survive here. I know deep down you want to believe in God, who loves you so much. I don't know what happened in your life to make you disbelieve, but I am sorry for that. I don't judge you, Shaky, I just truly care. No part of me believes that Christianity is a myth, though some try to shake it off as one. Please, don't be one of those people that just shake it off because you are afraid that you'll be wrong if you truly look into it. Please, don't let pride stand in the way of you and God.

I'm sorry I upset you. Let's start over?

Am I right in thinking your argument is probabilistic? "The probability of the Earth being in such-and-such a position is very low, therefore there must have been a designer"? That type of reasoning has a problem; let's try a thought experiment. Take a deck of cards and shuffle them; now, look at the cards. What was the probability that you'd wind up with the sequence you got? Astronomically low, of course; 1/(52*52*50*49*...*2*1). Would you say that you got that sequence for some reason other than chance, because the odds of getting it were so poor? Of course not.

Reshuffle the cards. Now, what's the probability that after you've shuffled the cards, they'll be perfectly sorted by suit and value? Still low; in fact, exactly the same as the probability of getting whatever you got the first time.

If you shuffle the cards and get a mess, you wouldn't think anything of it. If you shuffle the cards and get them perfectly sorted, you'd probably think it was some sort of trick, even though the odds of the two orders are the same. Why? Because you attach value to the cards being sorted in a certain way.

Let's abandon our analogy. The probability of the Earth being in its orbit is however low it is; the probability of Mars being in the orbit its in are exactly the same. You think that the position of Earth is evidence of a designer, whereas you probably don't think the position of Mars means anything. Why? Because life is important to you. Of course it is. But try to get past that for a moment. If the Earth wasn't in its exact orbit, it wouldn't have life. If Jupiter wasn't in its exact orbit, it wouldn't have its funky magnetic fields. The probability that Earth could sustain life, by chance, is exactly the same as the probability that Jupiter would have its particular magnetic fields, by chance. Every planet, not merely in our solar system but in the universe, has its own characteristics, and the probability that a given planet would have an orbit that allows it to have, for example, wierd magnetic fields or polar ice caps is the same as the probability that earth's orbit would allow it to have life.

To summarize, your difficulty is that you think that Earth's ability to support life is somehow special. It's not; it's just a trait the planet happens to have, like Mars' polar ice caps, Jupiter's storms, and so on. You're right that it wasn't likely that the Earth could support life, but so what? It's not likely that any one of the millions of planets, stars, comits, galexies, black holes, astroids, moons that inhabit the universe would have the exact properties it has. When you get over life being "special"--and lets face it, in an infinite universe, how important is one planet's worth of life?--then your argument fails.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, so I'll stop now.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I know my facts might not be right on target, but I don't claim to be a scientist. Thank you for not totally condemning me in that aspect, as others have done. You are right, Itelligent Design is code for Christianity and the belief that God is the Intelligent Designer. You are also right in the fact that we are on earth because it is the only place we can survive. God created it so that we could survive here. I know deep down you want to believe in God, who loves you so much. I don't know what happened in your life to make you disbelieve, but I am sorry for that. I don't judge you, Shaky, I just truly care. No part of me believes that Christianity is a myth, though some try to shake it off as one. Please, don't be one of those people that just shake it off because you are afraid that you'll be wrong if you truly look into it. Please, don't let pride stand in the way of you and God.

I now am free of the chains that Christianity had convinced me to wear. But at no time have I said that I do not believe in God. I simple do not believe in the Christian myth. I do not believe that God is outside of anyone. I believe that God is that small, quiet voice that is in the heart of all things. I chant to still the noise of all my thoughts so I can hear and be guided by the inner power that is in everyone.

I will tell you something funny: I believe that Jesus was just a man, and was not divine. However, I once heard a rabbi state the reason that Jesus was not the messiah, was that he was considered to be divine, and the messiah had to be a human. Now I don’t believe he was divine, but if I look at history and the influence that Jesus had on the western world, I’m open to the possibility that he was the messiah. But I think the raising from the dead, was just propaganda.

I couldn't quote your whole post, Gregory, so I'll quote the summary: "To summarize, your difficulty is that you think that Earth's ability to support life is somehow special. It's not; it's just a trait the planet happens to have, like Mars' polar ice caps, Jupiter's storms, and so on. You're right that it wasn't likely that the Earth could support life, but so what? It's not likely that any one of the millions of planets, stars, comits, galexies, black holes, astroids, moons that inhabit the universe would have the exact properties it has. When you get over life being "special"--and lets face it, in an infinite universe, how important is one planet's worth of life?--then your argument fails."

That is the whole point of my argument. For life to exist on a planet, things have to be perfect, they have to be a certain way. It is amazing that life exists on earth, and it is something that couldn't just have happened. God made earth to support life, but He also made all the other planets and stars and galaxies, probably just to amaze us all the more. Life is special to me. As a fellow human being, I would expect it to be special to you. God gave me life. Every breath I breathe is because of Him. I won't take it for granted. I will always thank Him for it. He is truly amazing, if you would just take the time to see beyond all of your scientific reasoning to see the God who is above and beyond all that we think we understand but never can fully fathom.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I couldn't quote your whole post, Gregory, so I'll quote the summary: "To summarize, your difficulty is that you think that Earth's ability to support life is somehow special. It's not; it's just a trait the planet happens to have, like Mars' polar ice caps, Jupiter's storms, and so on. You're right that it wasn't likely that the Earth could support life, but so what? It's not likely that any one of the millions of planets, stars, comits, galexies, black holes, astroids, moons that inhabit the universe would have the exact properties it has. When you get over life being "special"--and lets face it, in an infinite universe, how important is one planet's worth of life?--then your argument fails."

That is the whole point of my argument. For life to exist on a planet, things have to be perfect, they have to be a certain way. It is amazing that life exists on earth, and it is something that couldn't just have happened. God made earth to support life, but He also made all the other planets and stars and galaxies, probably just to amaze us all the more. Life is special to me. As a fellow human being, I would expect it to be special to you. God gave me life. Every breath I breathe is because of Him. I won't take it for granted. I will always thank Him for it. He is truly amazing, if you would just take the time to see beyond all of your scientific reasoning to see the God who is above and beyond all that we think we understand but never can fully fathom.

It is simpler than that. If you are standing in a dark room with a spotlight over your head, you could say that god put the spotlight there so you could see. However, it is just as likely that you are standing under the light because it is the one place you can see.

couldn't quote your whole post, Gregory, so I'll quote the summary: "To summarize, your difficulty is that you think that Earth's ability to support life is somehow special. It's not; it's just a trait the planet happens to have, like Mars' polar ice caps, Jupiter's storms, and so on. You're right that it wasn't likely that the Earth could support life, but so what? It's not likely that any one of the millions of planets, stars, comits, galexies, black holes, astroids, moons that inhabit the universe would have the exact properties it has. When you get over life being "special"--and lets face it, in an infinite universe, how important is one planet's worth of life?--then your argument fails."

That is the whole point of my argument. For life to exist on a planet, things have to be perfect, they have to be a certain way. It is amazing that life exists on earth, and it is something that couldn't just have happened. God made earth to support life, but He also made all the other planets and stars and galaxies, probably just to amaze us all the more. Life is special to me. As a fellow human being, I would expect it to be special to you. God gave me life. Every breath I breathe is because of Him. I won't take it for granted. I will always thank Him for it. He is truly amazing, if you would just take the time to see beyond all of your scientific reasoning to see the God who is above and beyond all that we think we understand but never can fully fathom.

Okay, we'll go from your post. It's amazing that life exists, but it's just as amazing that Mars has polar caps and that Jupiter can support a sixteen-moon system. Saturn's rings are amazing; you don't see anything quite like them in the rest of the solar system. Ganamyde has ice volcanoes; that's amazing, too. If you think that these things are also specially designed--and it sounds like you do, "just to amaze us more"--then of course my arguments no good to you, but what I was saying, basically, is that Earth isn't more amazing then, say, Jupiter--it's just that since the amazing thing about Earth allows us to exist, while the amazing things about Jupiter are of interest only to astronomers, it seems that way, so we attach a special importance to it that isn't really there.

(Of course my life is special to me; I just meant that on a universal scale, it's trivial. Humanity could wipe itself out via nuclear war, and the universe would keep on going as if nothing had happened).

Originally posted by Gregory
Okay, we'll go from your post. It's amazing that life exists, but it's just as amazing that Mars has polar caps and that Jupiter can support a sixteen-moon system. Saturn's rings are amazing; you don't see anything quite like them in the rest of the solar system. Ganamyde has ice volcanoes; that's amazing, too. If you think that these things are also specially designed--and it sounds like you do, "just to amaze us morre"--then of course my arguments no good, but what I was saying, basically, is that Earth isn't more amazing then, say, Jupiter--it's just that since the amazing thing about Earth allows us to exist, while the amazing things about Jupiter are of interest only to astronomers, it seems that way, so we attach a special importance to it that isn't really there.

But life on Earth is not that amazing.

The Drake Equation
http://www.airynothing.com/smackerels/DrakeEquation.html

If you plug in the most conservative numbers into this equation you will find that there is a huge number of planets with life in the universe. So there is either life though out the universe or there is no life anywhere. I think there is life here, so it must be common in the universe.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I now am free of the chains that Christianity had convinced me to wear. But at no time have I said that I do not believe in God. I simple do not believe in the Christian myth. I do not believe that God is outside of anyone. I believe that God is that small, quiet voice that is in the heart of all things. I chant to still the noise of all my thoughts so I can hear and be guided by the inner power that is in everyone.

I will tell you something funny: I believe that Jesus was just a man, and was not divine. However, I once heard a rabbi state the reason that Jesus was not the messiah, was that he was considered to be divine, and the messiah had to be a human. Now I don’t believe he was divine, but if I look at history and the influence that Jesus had on the western world, I’m open to the possibility that he was the messiah. But I think the raising from the dead, was just propaganda.

I don't know what rabbi told you that or why... but Jesus was fully divine and fully human, which is a hard concept for the human mind to grasp. He had to be fully human, yes, I'll agree with the rabbi, but I don't know where he got the part about he couldn't be divine. There are actually terms for those beliefs, which I recently studied in my Worldview class. John 1:1-3 & 14 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made....The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." If you believe in God, why do you doubt that He would care enough to send His Son to die for you? Why do you doubt that He is powerful enough to raise Him from the dead. Please read: "Case for Christ" and Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel, a former aetheist. He tried to disprove Christianity and in his quest actually proved it. I know it may seem redundant for this is probably the third time that I have recommended these books, but they will help answer any questions you might have. If nothing else, they will help you understand why Christians believe what they do.

Originally posted by Gregory
Okay, we'll go from your post. It's amazing that life exists, but it's just as amazing that Mars has polar caps and that Jupiter can support a sixteen-moon system. Saturn's rings are amazing; you don't see anything quite like them in the rest of the solar system. Ganamyde has ice volcanoes; that's amazing, too. If you think that these things are also specially designed--and it sounds like you do, "just to amaze us more"--then of course my arguments no good to you, but what I was saying, basically, is that Earth isn't more amazing then, say, Jupiter--it's just that since the amazing thing about Earth allows us to exist, while the amazing things about Jupiter are of interest only to astronomers, it seems that way, so we attach a special importance to it that isn't really there.

(Of course my life is special to me; I just meant that on a universal scale, it's trivial. Humanity could wipe itself out via nuclear war, and the universe would keep on going as if nothing had happened).

Those things are all amazing, you are right. Too amazing to just happen for no reason at all. The theory that we just appeared for no reason is ridiculous. Why? Without God, what's the point? I believe God created all things "ex nihilio" - out of nothing... but not for nothing.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Those things are all amazing, you are right. Too amazing to just happen for no reason at all. The theory that we just appeared for no reason is ridiculous. Why? Without God, what's the point? I believe God created all things "ex nihilio" - out of nothing... but not for nothing.

The hardest thing for man to grasp is that perhaps he has no purpose and no meaning.....................made out of sand and dirt perhaps like a planet.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But life on Earth is not that amazing.

The Drake Equation
http://www.airynothing.com/smackerels/DrakeEquation.html

If you plug in the most conservative numbers into this equation you will find that there is a huge number of planets with life in the universe. So there is either life though out the universe or there is no life anywhere. I think there is life here, so it must be common in the universe.

Look around, at the good in the world, and tell me that life on Earth isn't that amazing.

I don't know about life on other planets... God could do it, or have already done it, if He wanted to. Either way, where there is life, just because it might be common doesn't mean it isn't wonderful and beautiful and astonishing. Just because there are countless stars in the sky, does that make any one less beautiful? There are billions of people, but each one is unique and different. Just because something might be what you call "common" doesn't make it any less special. Something might seem common and ordinary, when in fact if you look closer, it is extraordinary.

Originally posted by soleran30
The hardest thing for man to grasp is that perhaps he has no purpose and no meaning.....................made out of sand and dirt perhaps like a planet.

Why would I grasp something like that. Why would man just be here? It doesn't make sense. I believe that man has a purpose, not because it makes me feel better, but because I do have a purpose. Sometimes, it would be easier to just live as if nothing matters, but it does matter. Having a purpose isn't taking the easy way out. We were made out of dust... but God breathed life into us. I'm sad that you think so low of yourself, when you are the child of God, created in His majestic image. The Creator of the Universe chose to create YOU... that should make you smile.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Look around, at the good in the world, and tell me that life on Earth isn't that amazing.

I don't know about life on other planets... God could do it, or have already done it, if He wanted to. Either way, where there is life, just because it might be common doesn't mean it isn't wonderful and beautiful and astonishing. Just because there are countless stars in the sky, does that make any one less beautiful? There are billions of people, but each one is unique and different. Just because something might be what you call "common" doesn't make it any less special. Something might seem common and ordinary, when in fact if you look closer, it is extraordinary.

The word amazing is a comparison. Amazing when compared with what? Because I say that the occurrence of life on this planet is not amazing does not take away from the beauty and marvelous splendor that is the universe. On the contrary, I call this words we live in, heaven.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Why would I grasp something like that. Why would man just be here? It doesn't make sense. I believe that man has a purpose, not because it makes me feel better, but because I do have a purpose. Sometimes, it would be easier to just live as if nothing matters, but it does matter. Having a purpose isn't taking the easy way out. We were made out of dust... but God breathed life into us. I'm sad that you think so low of yourself, when you are the child of God, created in His majestic image. The Creator of the Universe chose to create YOU... that should make you smile.

Wow I never said you inparticular, mankind as a whole does this. Someone without a purpose loses interest in life...................everyone feels as though they must have a purpose its what gets people out of bed in the morning.

Whoever lives as if nothing matters is already dead and I never said thats how man should live. Its the nature of religion to create purpose and satiate needs but making sense of things for our EGO so we can feel good about this.

I always found it ironic that an a being stated as omniscient, omnibenevolent and ominpotent would require praise and acknowledgement. Being God means the past present and future are already known and regardless of the actions you take God already knows the results. Kinda takes a bite outta free will really🙂

Originally posted by soleran30
Wow I never said you inparticular, mankind as a whole does this. Someone without a purpose loses interest in life...................everyone feels as though they must have a purpose its what gets people out of bed in the morning.

Whoever lives as if nothing matters is already dead and I never said thats how man should live. Its the nature of religion to create purpose and satiate needs but making sense of things for our EGO so we can feel good about this.

I always found it ironic that an a being stated as omniscient, omnibenevolent and ominpotent would require praise and acknowledgement. Being God means the past present and future are already known and regardless of the actions you take God already knows the results. Kinda takes a bite outta free will really🙂

Well, I am really glad that you have purpose 🙂

About the whole free will, thing... it is hard to fathom that God can know the future and not make us do things... but that's just it. He knows what we are going to chose, but He doesn't make us chose anything.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Well, I am really glad that you have purpose 🙂

About the whole free will, thing... it is hard to fathom that God can know the future and not make us do things... but that's just it. He knows what we are going to chose, but He doesn't make us chose anything.

Nope the choices you will make have already been made..............God knows all. So wether you do or you don't it was meant to be cuz God already knows you did it hence free will is an illusion for man to believe what he is doing is his own but for God you have already lived your whole life🙂

Anyway back to creation.....................man might just be here because God just wanted an antfarm.............hehe I poke fun obvioulsy.