back to this whole darksied shifting different dimensioanl states.. that would have been a truly viable justfication were it not for the fact that everytime he blasts superman, supes claps back with heat vision and they both clash, thus proving that it is a physical thing the OB...but the shifting thing is remeinciscent of that lady in the Hyperion mini who can actually do that. and actually sees every dimension simultanouesly, so if that was the case for darksied it would be totally awesome
The Phoenix Force is impossible, partly because of retcons and inconsistencies throughout Marvel's timeline, and partly because of a simple lack of information... Personally, I see it as more of an external force, as opposed to a multiversal scaled Eternity, (part of EVERYTHING) a force with at least abstract+ levels of power, and possibly even a connection to the omnipotent force of the MU. (since we don't really know if TOAA is truly omnipotent, or if he's just the next step above LT, but that's a whole nother debate)
As to Galactus's hunger, I always thought that he was constantly hungry because he constantly expended massive amounts of energy on keeping Abraxas in check. So a "Full Powered" Galactus would be one that did not have to worry about holding in Abraxas, and would be an entity on the level of Eternity and Death. That's just me though, his full potential is really just speculation.
you're the second person i heard mention the abraxas connection as reasons for his hunger. did you read that somewhere or is that forum speak?
your thoughts echo mine as regards the pf. there's just been too much retconned and too much left . . . unresolved and too many inconsistencies for me to be comfortable really trying to explain the pf and what it is/does. it does make for some interesting discussion though!
and i'm with manjaro re: the o-beams. khan's explanation, while cool, doesn't quite sit well with me for some of the reasons named above. supes heat vision has deflected it (but did not STOP it, it still came after him so supes vision was NOT more powerful, it just caused it to pause for a brief time), ww's bracelets, orion's astro-force. i still liken it to the odinpower in some ways, but it really remains inexplicable in comics.
oh, and diz -- i bet there will come a day when toaa is simply shown to be the servant of some other 'omnipotent being'. ahh, the beauty of comics . . .
I am with you guys as regards to the PF. If you think about it too long your brain starts to hurt. As far as my explanition for the Omega Beams, I just made it up to try and explain how it works so don't put too much stock in it. Perhaps being important to the source allows you (or an attack of your) to attempt to counter what ever Darkseid is trying to do?
that last seems to be mostly true -- at least in supes' case, but i'm not sure about ww. i'm not completely sure of the circumstances, but it has been said on the forum she has deflected it with her bracelets. that means she too is important to the source, or her bracelets powers simply exceed the o-beams power. i'm not a fan of either explanation to be honest . . . 🙁
Originally posted by TheKahn
These are just some ideas that I can up with so don't hold me to them if some comic source contradicts me.1. Omega Effect
First lets us recall what the Omega Effect can do:
"The Omega Effect is not only a powerful attack, but can teleport the target anywhere Darkseid chooses, erase the target from existence instantly and can then restore the target if he chooses. The Omega Effect is not limited to traveling in straight lines, able to bend or twist as needed. It can traverse time and different universes, and go through some barriers such as Orion's body."
Now, this abilitiy covers such a wide range of effects that determining its nature is difficult. Personally, I believe that the Omega Effect might not be an "attack" in the normal sence of the word.
If you use the "Everett many worlds" intreptation of quantum mechanics in which all the possibilities described by quantum theory simultaneously occur in a "multiverse" composed of mostly independent parallel universes. Then we may describe Darksieds Omega Effect as the merger of this universe with a universe in which his desired effect is in place but in which no other changes are present.
Thus he does not produce the results he desires but only shifts to a reality that fits them.
For example: Say Darksied wanted to erace Batman from existance; then his Omega Effect would simply merge this universe with one in which Batman doesn't exist. The "beams" that we see could be explained as a physical manifestation of Darksied designating that individual as the target of the merger.
Where does this come from? It could be an inborn extra awareness (think Surfer's Cosmic Awareness) that any being that is advanced enough could manipulate. Or it could be a ability given to Darksied by a higher being in the DC universe.
Slight problem there my friend , that opens up a whole can of worms due to 'the crisis' and the fact that most of these worlds (unlike marvel) ar4en't populated with dc's heroes.
The power cosmic -
I always considered the power cosmic to be the very basic thing that made up the universe , but it wasn't used by surfer or galactus....more 'manipulated' .
Because if you think about it galactus's power diminishes , (possibly leaking back into the universe ?) and surfer's power is never overtly power using. Such as molecule manipulation , it isn't using the power of 'cosmic' per-say just manipulating it to shift one state into another (or in this case apart heh...)
Originally posted by grey fox
The power cosmic -I always considered the power cosmic to be the very basic thing that made up the universe , but it wasn't used by surfer or galactus....more 'manipulated' .
Because if you think about it galactus's power diminishes , (possibly leaking back into the universe ?) and surfer's power is never overtly power using. Such as molecule manipulation , it isn't using the power of 'cosmic' per-say just manipulating it to shift one state into another (or in this case apart heh...)
I always thought the power cosmic was an ability and not a power source. Surfer taps into ambient cosmic energy just like everyone else. His power cosmic is the way he can manipulate this energy differently to anyone else. Its an ability deriven from Galactus not a power source in itself.
Originally posted by grey fox
Slight problem there my friend , that opens up a whole can of worms due to 'the crisis' and the fact that most of these worlds (unlike marvel) ar4en't populated with dc's heroes.
Yeah, I know 😬
It was just an thought. 😄
Here is an article on the source if it adds anything:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Source_%28comics%29
Within the DC Comics Universe, the Source is the non-religion-oriented equivalent to God/Goddess/Jehovah (etc.). It is the "source" of all that exists. The Presence is that aspect of the Source that dwells within the Universe, while the Source seems to be above-and-beyond the confines of the Universe residing outside of what we know as time-space/reality. The Spectre, as the agent of “God’s Vengeance”, draws it’s power from the Presence, but since the Presence and the Source are in essence one-and-the same, it can be said the Spectre draws its power from the Source; therefore, solidifying the Spectre as probably the most powerful entity active within the DC Universe.
Mostly associated with the New Gods, the Source is the origin of the “god-wave” that is responsible for creating/empowering the Gods of the Universe with their divine essence; as well, it seems, to be responsible for the ability of DC residents to develop super-powers.
DC has kept the Source out of the main continuum of its story telling; therefore, not much is known concretely about its many aspects.
Oh, and on another note (regarding Galactus's Hunger), did anyone read the comic in which the Abstracts had a meeting and discussed the role of Galactus in the universe, and an agreement was reached between Galactus, Death and Mephisto. I think it was called "The Gathering" or something like that. It was sort of like a preface to the origin of the Silver Surfer story.
Anyway, they all meet before Living Tribunal because Eternity, Death and Mephisto are worried Galactus's role as devourer of life energy infringes on their territories. To appease them, Tribunal ordained that Galactus (at this point, though it was later retconned) would not consume the life energies of sentient beings, but only that of planets suitable of sustaining life. Galactus then mentions his plans of taking on an apprentice (Surfer) which was discussed with Eon (who appeared in the form of a tree). Mephisto and Death take issue with this, so Tribunal allows them to make addendums to the terms of Galactus's role in creation. Death's request is that Galactus's hunger is never satiated and he will always need to consume the life sustaining energies of planets (and in so doing, would destroy more planets and cause more death), and Mephisto simply asked for the ability to torment the soon to be created Surfer (whom Eon had a signifigant role for in future events of the universe).
The agreement is reached, Tribunal waves his hand, instills the hunger in Galactus, and the meeting is adjurned. The next panel shows Galactus leaving the meeting and heading for Zenn-La.
This account is from memory (I'm at work and don't have my comics), but I beleive that is originaly why Galactus hungered. What it was changed to for current continuity is unknown to me because Marvel has intertwined A LOT of inconsistencies in their character's histories.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I always thought the power cosmic was an ability and not a power source. Surfer taps into ambient cosmic energy just like everyone else. His power cosmic is the way he can manipulate this energy differently to anyone else. Its an ability deriven from Galactus not a power source in itself.
That would make alot sense. But hasn't it been referred to that Galactus' gives a "portion" of his Power Cosmic to his Heralds (I may be mistaken)?
You explanation could also explain his hunger. If he uses so much energy to keep Abraxsis at bay, he may not be able to gather the quantity of energy he needs in the same manner as the Surfer (he may need a larger source of energy).
Originally posted by TheKahn
That would make alot sense. But hasn't it been referred to that Galactus' gives a "portion" of his Power Cosmic to his Heralds (I may be mistaken)?
You explanation could also explain his hunger. If he uses so much energy to keep Abraxsis at bay, he may not be able to gather the quantity of energy he needs in the same manner as the Surfer (he may need a larger source of energy).
That's actually pretty good , but let's turn everything on it's head for a second . What if the power cosmic is floating energy . but the ability to harness it is an extremely large and complex procedure . Eg galactus gives surfer a 'fraction' (IE:the basics) and because their is enough of this ambient energy surfer believes he is 'godliek' .
Originally posted by grey fox
That's actually pretty good , but let's turn everything on it's head for a second . What if the power cosmic [b]is floating energy . but the ability to harness it is an extremely large and complex procedure . Eg galactus gives surfer a 'fraction' (IE:the basics) and because their is enough of this ambient energy surfer believes he is 'godliek' . [/B]
Ok, so would that mean that the Power Cosmic isn't a type of energy that he can consume to survive but only manipulate for desired effects?
Originally posted by TheKahn
Ok, so would that mean that the Power Cosmic isn't a type of energy that he can consume to survive but only manipulate for desired effects?
Possibly both , i have another theory. Galactus consumes planets 'life energies' which in turn sustain him , but as i earlier said what if this life force diminishes (or is let out in what could be considered cosmic flatulence) and becomes cosmic energy. This would make sense since galactus is usually the main person to deal with the stuff .
😄
i think it's pretty widely accepted that both the ss and g and all other inherently 'cosmic types' are merely energy manipulators. gs is absolutley correct in saying ss absorbs and manipulates ambient (ie pre-existing) cosmic energy. i think this is also what wielders of the power primordial (the elders) also do. g, as a result of his connection with the creation force, has an intimate knowledge of this energy and so can wield it for awesome effects. in changing ss, he allows ss a glimpse of this control and allows him to control a fraction of it as well. the elders may exceed ss's level because they've been manipulating it longer and like g have come to have intimate knowledge of these cosmic energies.
power cosmic may be viewed as a command over the PHYSICAL laws of the universe -- from galactic to quantum levels. a power cosmic wielder can command all these things and everything in between. but magic will cause trouble because it lies OUTSIDE the sphere of these physical laws. in contrast, something like the source -- the creative force on dc -- grants control over not only the physical laws, but ALL laws as it is the force that allows ALL laws to come into being -- ie it is the foundation of everything that follws. the same may possibily be said of the pf in marvel, though it is more closely associated with psi abilities, rather than magical abilities for some reason.
as regards g's hunger -- i still don't know the root cause, if ill's description has been retconned, what the relationship between his hunger and abraxas is. it seems like a curse, but placed on him by himself or some outside agent, i don't know.
Originally posted by leonidas
thing is, in marvel, the creation force you're talking about is the phoenix force. which is why i said earlier that to me it seems logical that the power cosmic -- which ss gathers by absorbing the ambient energy given off by stars -- is merely a facet of the phoenix force. galactus has greater control of this aspect than ss does but at the saem time, it seems he actually has LESS control. clearly ss doesn't need to replenish his power, yet g does. that's always puzzled me. is there a reason g is NOT meant to be at full power? why DOES he hunger? i thought that was hypothesized in a book somewhere . . .?
Maybe it's because Galactus is a far more powerful being than his heralds.
The heralds may be able to replenish what they use simply because it is a far smaller portion of a whole and can be "refilled" a lot easier.
Galactus as a whole may require far more energy to do grander things, and can't replenish his energy in the same way, thus requiring him to consume the life energy of planets.
For example, a calculator and a laptop. Both can do calculation. A calculator can be powered by solar energy. A laptop can do the same and a whole lot more, but uses far more energy doing so. It also needs a far more powerful battery or a constant connection to a wall outlet.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Maybe it's because Galactus is a far more powerful being than his heralds.
The heralds may be able to replenish what they use simply because it is a far smaller portion of a whole and can be "refilled" a lot easier.Galactus as a whole may require far more energy to do grander things, and can't replenish his energy in the same way, thus requiring him to consume the life energy of planets.
For example, a calculator and a laptop. Both can do calculation. A calculator can be powered by solar energy. A laptop can do the same and a whole lot more, but uses far more energy doing so. It also needs a far more powerful battery or a constant connection to a wall outlet.
it's a point well taken, av. but why JUST galactus? why don't other cosmics need to replenish?
and you're right ill, g HAS been able to manipulate magic, but not without effort. i think his ties to the creation force would allow for him to manipulate even magic, given that the creation force/pf is ALSO responsible for magic. perhaps the physical world overlays the magical? so his control of the top layer is enormous but it takes more effort -- and he's less skilled -- manipulating the 'undercurrent'?
just speculating . . .
av, what about thoughts on the speed force?