"Your thoughts" OR . . . "A smart person's thread!"

Originally posted by leonidas
it's a point well taken, av. but why JUST galactus? why don't other cosmics need to replenish?

and you're right ill, g HAS been able to manipulate magic, but not without effort. i think his ties to the creation force would allow for him to manipulate even magic, given that the creation force/pf is ALSO responsible for magic. perhaps the physical world overlays the magical? so his control of the top layer is enormous but it takes more effort -- and he's less skilled -- manipulating the 'undercurrent'?

just speculating . . .

av, what about thoughts on the speed force?

speed-force is ......it's difficult.

Their is no real way to describe it other then an otherworldly force which buffers ,protects and bestows super speed to it's users.

Perhaps it is like the gamma radiation thing , only certain people/genetic makeup can access the speed-force which in turn hyper speeds someones molecules allowing them to move insanely fast.

Here is an article on the Speed Force but not really much info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Force

And here is an even better one:
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/force.html

It has a couple of interesting theories and events that have happened involving the speed force. It seems to be possibly of a devine nature and have its own intellegence. There have been a couple references to it and God or Heaven so could it have a link to the Source as well???

* "Things became a bit more confusing during the Genesis crisis. Super-powered beings across the universe found their powers fluctuating due to a common source:

Ages ago, a great world destroyed itself and released into the birthing cosmos a wave of energy such as had never been known! This was the Godwave, and its power seeded all worlds with divinity. From this came the gods your worlds have come to know and worship. That Godwave expanded to the full limits of the universe, whereupon it doubled back on itself, and made a second passage through the universe. Out of the second passing came the potential for power in mortals. This power has been given many names...the speed force, the quantum field, the great energy once channeled by the Guardians of Oa.
—(Highfather, Genesis #2, October 1997)

Unfortunately, it is difficult to merge this view with the one previously shown. When Savitar sapped all the energy from the speed force, it took away everyone’s powers—each Flash, Jesse Quick and Impulse, even the Kapitalist Kouriers. Only Wally kept his speed because he was mainlining the force. Johnny Quick even merged with the field when they took the battle to Savitar. But in this latest crisis, everyone’s powers have become unreliable (or worse), including Wally and other non-speed metahumans...except for Jesse Quick[2]. We can probably assume this is just an error in Genesis."

* "The way the speed force seems to work is that it powers any super-fast being not naturally fast. A cheetah, for instance, is naturally fast. Superman’s speed is also a natural consequence of his Kryptonian heritage. All Flashes, however, have been normal people “noticed” by the speed force through accidents (lightning, supersonic flight, etc.) or intentional experiments (magic, steroids, etc.)."

* "One evening, at the absolute peak of his prowess, he felt the night lightning...calling him. Not with his eyes or mind—but deep in his heart—he sensed a strange beckoning...and chased it. Into the unknown, Windrunner raced faster and faster. He shattered all limits. He moved quicker than the hurricane, more swiftly than the thunderbolt...faster than light itself. Reaching supreme velocity, he approached the threshold of a new communion. For a span razor-thin even to him, Windrunner touched the very source of his great power—and was transformed. The speed force drew Windrunner in...without words, inviting him to the other side of light, to become one with the power...as others had before him.
—(Max Mercury, Flash v.2 #97, January 1995)
Windrunner hesitated at the last moment, and lost his chance at heaven. Propelled forward through time, he landed in 1891. “He had locked eyes with God—and had blinked. From that day forward, he was burdened with an empty ache more painful than the greatest dream dashed...or the greatest love lost.” Windrunner tried many times to recapture that moment, each time arriving in a new era, until he became the present-day Max Mercury."

good enough. i'll do a little checking up. 😉

Originally posted by Mindship
More 2-cents worth...

My impression of the Phoenix Force is that it is an archetypal force: a divinely creative force. This would place it a notch or so higher than a psionic/psiconscious force. Why? Building upon my earlier 2-cents worth: psi involves manipulation of quantum wavefunctions, whereas the Phoenix Force actually produces the quantum wavefunctions (ie, gives rise to the underlying quantum "ocean" upon which "roll the waves"😉.

IMO the phoenix force = Thomas Aquinas's Prime mover, i.e. the basis of his three way Cosmological Argument. This along with Spectre, Zauriel and other divine beings from with D.C. universe is one of the few examples of transcendent characters that exist in comicdom.

Every other Superpower can be explained by hyper Spatial Nano tech that interacts with the 'normal' 3 Dimensional universe. These are beyond empirical observation due to being 'folded up' in the further 6 dimensions of space and time. The cosmic beings of the respective universe probably have a greater understanding of higher dimensions and therefore how to manipulate these technologies. IMO What we see as 'Energy control' is just the 3 Dimensional reflection of Hyper dimensional manipulation.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I always thought the power cosmic was an ability and not a power source. Surfer taps into ambient cosmic energy just like everyone else. His power cosmic is the way he can manipulate this energy differently to anyone else. Its an ability deriven from Galactus not a power source in itself.

Hmm...

What exactly is meant by "cosmic energy?" Are we talking about the high-energy, high-speed hydrogen nuclei which come zipping down into the atmosphere? Is this what the Surfer feeds on/manipulates? Or is "cosmic" just the label for any energy found out in the cosmos? In other words, does "cosmic" describes the energy by origin (like "solar" energy), or by substance (like "light"😉.

Also...what's everyone's take on "magic?" Personally, I don't like it, it's a plot device which should be left in little kid fairy tales.

Once one gains the ability to manipulate Space/time on a Planck level (The level of the quantum foam Mind sip 😉 ) any thing is possible from exotic matter creation to time anomaly's.

One could even change the natural order of the universe and how we perceive time i.e. things deteriorate from order to chaos. This effect is governed by the Shape of space time and creates what we know as the unfolding of time. If one can control this effect, making an object appear to move faster would be child's play. This could explain the speed force.

As everything is generally the vibration of energy through space/time, by manipulating one you can theoretically change the other. We know that negative energy and gravity can change space-time, therefore the nano devices mentioned in my previous post would probably be able to wield these energies.

What created these devices is anyones guess ? It could be some advanced 10 dimensional being that has comparable Omnipotent power. It may have been the prime mover .... i.e. G.S.'s phoenix force. Maybe God/Source/Yahweh/Presence/Phoenix Force or what ever other transcendent beings, want comic characters to evolve beyond the restrictions of conventional physics. By achieving control of these technologies it may be possible to rid the universe of the Natural and Moral evils that plague existence.

Any way i wont say anymore .... wait for my comic which will be published in the year 2000 and 'good 1'

B.T.W. String theory Owns quantum mechanics !!!!!!! 😛

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Once one gains the ability to manipulate Space/time on a Planck level (The level of the quantum foam Mind sip 😉 ) any thing is possible from exotic matter creation to time anomaly's.

One could even change the natural order of the universe and how we perceive time i.e. things deteriorate from order to chaos. This effect is governed by the Shape of space time and creates what we know as the unfolding of time. If one can control this effect, making an object appear to move faster would be child's play. This could explain the speed force.

As everything is generally the vibration of energy through space/time, by manipulating one you can theoretically change the other. We know that negative energy and gravity can change space-time, therefore the nano devices mentioned in my previous post would probably be able to wield these energies.

What created these devices is anyones guess ? It could be some advanced 10 dimensional being that has comparable Omnipotent power. It may have been the prime mover .... i.e. G.S.'s phoenix force. Maybe God/Source/Yahweh/Presence/Phoenix Force or what ever other transcendent beings, want comic characters to evolve beyond the restrictions of conventional physics. By achieving control of these technologies it may be possible to rid the universe of the Natural and Moral evils that plague existence.

Any way i wont say anymore .... wait for my comic which will be published in the year 2000 and 'good 1'

B.T.W. String theory Owns quantum mechanics !!!!!!! 😛

Wouldn't it be M-theory?

Scifi author Stephen Baxter, in his "Xeelee Sequence" stories, postulated a race of beings so advanced that they could change the constants of our universe by precisely unfurling the compactified dimensions.

I have a character which I have written some short stories about (one actually got published!) who can partially manipulate the quantum foam.

Likely, it is the wave of far-future tech. But if universes are fractal, then even that technology just scratches the surface.

As for archetypal power: IMO, this is power which involves evolution of Consciousness rather than technology, and in the end will surpass anything "mere machines" can muster.

Originally posted by Mindship
Wouldn't it be M-theory?

Scifi author Stephen Baxter, in his "Xeelee Sequence" stories, postulated a race of beings so advanced that they could change the constants of our universe by precisely unfurling the compactified dimensions.

I have a character which I have written some short stories about (one actually got published!) who can partially manipulate the quantum foam.

Likely, it is the wave of far-future tech. But if universes are fractal, then even that technology just scratches the surface.

As for archetypal power: IMO, this is power which involves evolution of Consciousness rather than technology, and in the end will surpass anything "mere machines" can muster.

There's no empirical data to suggest so, unless you've experience some form of mysticism ?

Many worlds is not a very popular theory, as it makes nothing certain .... there is no evidence to my knowledge to suggest that one can become a 'Quantum obsever' !!!!!!

True the tech is far into the future .... but maybe a race as advanced as the celestial has manipulated ailen and the human gene pool to the point where this tech begins to respond to our unconscious desires. I.e. the psionics maybe our minds utilising this advance technology. I think Brusiek speculated about something similar to this in his Superman tale ; Secret identity. This would also explain the meta and X genes. The analogy of the god wave, and the mutuation of beings by radiation my be a metaphor of this process

P.S. i would love to read you're short story, and what powers could the quanum foam give you???

By M theory I was referring to "membrane" or "brane" theory, which seeks to unite all the variations of string theory by postulating "membranes" instead of strings (at least, that's how I understand it).

And yeah, mysticism Is what I was referring to regarding archetypal power (but I realize that That is not everyone's cup o' tea).

Regarding my story: the quantum foam aspect plays a very minor role (eg, through subnanotech, she is able to modify the inertia of her body to achieve flight). The story is really about alienation and redemption. Plus, if I directed you to the website, then you'd know my name and I'd have to destroy your country. 😉 But I appreciate your asking. One of these days I may post a character profile (y'know, in one of those make-up-your-own-superhero threads).

Basically, I tend to agree with a lot of what you're saying: with future tech, we will likely be able to replicate a lot of superpowers...but this wont be something, I'm afraid, which will happen in our lifetime or even our grandchildren's lifetimes.

Originally posted by Mindship
By M theory I was referring to "membrane" or "brane" theory, which seeks to unite all the variations of string theory by postulating "membranes" instead of strings (at least, that's how I understand it).

And yeah, mysticism Is what I was referring to regarding archetypal power (but I realize that That is not everyone's cup o' tea).

Regarding my story: the quantum foam aspect plays a very minor role (eg, through subnanotech, she is able to modify the inertia of her body to achieve flight). The story is really about alienation and redemption. Plus, if I directed you to the website, then you'd know my name and I'd have to destroy your country. 😉 But I appreciate your asking. One of these days I may post a character profile (y'know, in one of those make-up-your-own-superhero threads).

Basically, I tend to agree with a lot of what you're saying: with future tech, we will likely be able to replicate a lot of superpowers...but this wont be something, I'm afraid, which will happen in our lifetime or even our grandchildren's lifetimes.

I don't think anyone knows what the hell the M stands for. I've heard it means everything from Mother to magic.

I agree .... the only way it will happen soon is if we get a 2001 Space odyssey scenario. Or we meet pseudo aliens, via a computer simulation so advance that it can realistically recreate the development of the universe on a atomic level.

Anyway I wasn't really talking about real life, i was refering to creating a more realistic edge on comics by using the more complex ideas of 'Popular science'. M theory, Quantum mechanics, Negative energy, Dark matter and Nano tech could be used to explain nearly all super powers, and all most of those 'impossibilities' that occur.

I wont say any more as i to plan to eventually write, and i cant really copy write my ideas.

Lets just say, get ready for Star Wars meets the Ultimates !!!!! 🙂

to settle a few anxts. WW did deflect the O-beams. most recently in the batman/superman issue where darksied came back to earth to claim kara, and supes had to drive him in the source wall

who knows since darksied once had beef with the olympians and the amazons im sure she might have even done it in the past

personally I look at the speed force the way the Wildstorm U explains the bleed as basically the circulatory system of the multiverse. picturing our multiverse as a giant multi celled organizm. each cell would represent a universe, and the cell wall or the protoplasmic sac that the cell is in, that prevents the "cell" from leaking out would be the "speed force"..

thats the energy that separates timelines, etheral planes, alternate realites, the microverses. and different dimensions altogether, and the fluid that all floats around in would be the....i dont know the great void or something. so its merely a matter of attuning to the right vibrational frequency to pierce the speed force wall to wherever you wanna go, thats why all the speedsters, wally especially, basically do a more complex version of teleporting. plus in that JLA arc where those 5-d imps were poised to destroy the universe with thier battle jay garrick said to flash that the SF is actually the lower wall of the 5th-D'sion.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I don't think anyone knows what the hell the M stands for. I've heard it means everything from Mother to magic.

I agree .... the only way it will happen soon is if we get a 2001 Space odyssey scenario. Or we meet pseudo aliens, via a computer simulation so advance that it can realistically recreate the development of the universe on a atomic level.

Anyway I wasn't really talking about real life, i was refering to creating a more realistic edge on comics by using the more complex ideas of 'Popular science'. M theory, Quantum mechanics, Negative energy, Dark matter and Nano tech could be used to explain nearly all super powers, and all most of those 'impossibilities' that occur.

I wont say any more as i to plan to eventually write, and i cant really copy write my ideas.

Lets just say, get ready for Star Wars meets the Ultimates !!!!! 🙂

Why cant you copyright your ideas? Are you writing an original tale but with franchised characters? If your characters are original, there are ways you can safeguard them.

First of all, copyright laws say as soon as an author completes a work and puts his name to it, it is copywrit. Also, I used to send out copies of my stories with a return envelope. This way when the rejected story got back to me, I had it in a sealed, dated envelope.

I've always liked when comics had a more realistic edge. I like all that physics stuff. This is why I have such a prob with "magic."

My stab at "magic" is that it is one of two things.
It may reflect an entirely different way of being psiconscious, ie, of being aware of quantum wavefunctions and thus controlling cosmic energy (ie, all forms of energy found in the cosmos).
Whereas the Surfer or Galactus are attuned to the universe more scientifically (using "laws of physics" to guide their will), someone like Dr Strange approachs this state of consciousness more through feeling. Kinda like left-brain/right-brain. Steve's way of understanding the universe is more poetic; no less accurate, just emphasizing different values.
In effect, power cosmic and "magic" are two sides of the same coin. Each has advantages and disadvantages (or at least thats how it should be, for either to avoid becoming a bonafide plot device).

My other stab at "magic" is Clarke's Law. I think that's been hinted at in some comics (Thor?)

Corollaries to Clarke's laws:

Andy Finkel - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo."

Aaron Allston's corollary to Clarke's Third Law; "Any sufficiently badly-written science is indistinguishable from magic."

Langford's application of Clarke's Third Law to science fiction: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device.

Sterling's Corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced garbage is indistinguishable from magic.

Gregory Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (Foundation's Fear, 1997)
Alternative version: Benford's Modified Clarke Law: Any technology that does not appear magical is insufficiently advanced

😉 🙄

😆

cool

Originally posted by Mindship
😆

cool

Here are a couple more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_law#Corollaries

Originally posted by Mindship

My stab at "magic" is that it is one of two things.
It may reflect an entirely different way of being psiconscious, ie, of being aware of quantum wavefunctions and thus controlling cosmic energy (ie, all forms of energy found in the cosmos).
Whereas the Surfer or Galactus are attuned to the universe more scientifically (using "laws of physics" to guide their will), someone like Dr Strange approachs this state of consciousness more through feeling. Kinda like left-brain/right-brain. Steve's way of understanding the universe is more poetic; no less accurate, just emphasizing different values.
In effect, power cosmic and "magic" are two sides of the same coin. Each has advantages and disadvantages (or at least thats how it should be, for either to avoid becoming a bonafide plot device).

My other stab at "magic" is Clarke's Law. I think that's been hinted at in some comics (Thor?)

Agreed, magic is a lazy but necessery option for a good comic.

In my version i've mangled Clarkes law with quantum mechnaics and put a mystical/transcedent spin on it. Im not going to enlighten you at the moment, for the reasons mentioned above. I think the current Ultimates run hinted at Thors powers being simillar to Clarkes law. I also think Magneto once manipulated magic, using the basis of CLarkes Law.

🙂

These are some awesome theories. You guys really have done your research. Amazing.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's a point well taken, av. but why JUST galactus? why don't other cosmics need to replenish?

I can't say for all of them, but the Silver Surfer actually DOES need to recharge himself occasionally. He gets his energy from pretty much anything on the EM spectrum, but he has been drained several times before. He can absorb a buttload of energy as well, but he has his limits. So I think that he (though I haven't seen anything to suggest that G is the same way) works from multiple sources. He expends internal cosmic stores (the "power cosmic"😉 to manipulate other forms of energy, like EM radiation. And yeah, I do recall power cosmic interacting with magic before, so they aren't completely opposite each other. (as magic and Q constructs are) Surfer and Galactus both still have weaknesses to magic though.

Originally posted by Dizzle
I can't say for all of them, but the Silver Surfer actually DOES need to recharge himself occasionally. He gets his energy from pretty much anything on the EM spectrum, but he has been drained several times before. He can absorb a buttload of energy as well, but he has his limits. So I think that he (though I haven't seen anything to suggest that G is the same way) works from multiple sources. He expends internal cosmic stores (the "power cosmic"😉 to manipulate other forms of energy, like EM radiation. And yeah, I do recall power cosmic interacting with magic before, so they aren't completely opposite each other. (as magic and Q constructs are) Surfer and Galactus both still have weaknesses to magic though.

IMO all energies within comicdom are linked. Everything from Psionics to magic is an aspect of the same thing. i.e. maybe with different wave lengths. The question that needs to be answered is how many of these energies are sentient / mystical and transcendent.

The wielding of these energies comes down to two ideas;

1. Either all forms are energy are sentient. Only Meta energy wielders are aware of this (On a conscious and unconsciously, depending on the characters power level)and can therefore communicate and direct these energies.

". Or the energy as such doesn't actually exist in a traditional sense. Instead what is explained as energy manipulation, is actually the 3 Dimensional usage of quantum mechanics or advanced Hyper dimensional technology.

🙂