Originally posted by illadelph12
My God...You know what, I'm not going to drop another long drawn out essay on this subject. I'm just going to say what I've said all along in this many faceted Phoenix debate:
Purpose doesn't equal power.
Living Tribunal and The Phoenix Force (the actual Force) are peers, and their roles are supplementary.
Tribunal doesn't have any feats because he's not an active adventuring hero. He simply suits a specific purpose in the multiverse and only appears when deemed absolutely necessary, which quite frankly is not that often because the heroes and villains balance eachother out for the most part so he doesn't need to get involved.
Phoenix Hosts and Avatars have active rolls in a universe. Hell, they're on the rosters of super hero teams. Of course they'll have more feats than Tribunal. Tribunal isn't an Avenger, X-Man, Defenders, Thunderbolt, or Evil Mutant.
The same concept goes for these comparisons of Spectre from DC and Tribunal. The Spectre has served actively on a superhero team, he's going to have more feats because he has more appearances and is more active.
Tribunal is not going to have as many feats, [b]he only acts when absolutely necessary
, and there is a large span of checks and balances, on a universal scale, set in place before a situation escalates to the realm of LT's jurisdiction and he has to step in and bring order.Please stop. [/B]
all well and good, but who gets curbstomped? 😉
Originally posted by illadelph12
My God...You know what, I'm not going to drop another long drawn out essay on this subject. I'm just going to say what I've said all along in this many faceted Phoenix debate:
Purpose doesn't equal power.
Living Tribunal and The Phoenix Force (the actual Force) are peers, and their roles are supplementary.
Tribunal doesn't have any feats because he's not an active adventuring hero. He simply suits a specific purpose in the multiverse and only appears when deemed absolutely necessary, which quite frankly is not that often because the heroes and villains balance eachother out for the most part so he doesn't need to get involved.
Phoenix Hosts and Avatars have active rolls in a universe. Hell, they're on the rosters of super hero teams. Of course they'll have more feats than Tribunal. Tribunal isn't an Avenger, X-Man, Defenders, Thunderbolt, or Evil Mutant.
The same concept goes for these comparisons of Spectre from DC and Tribunal. The Spectre has served actively on a superhero team, he's going to have more feats because he has more appearances and is more active.
Tribunal is not going to have as many feats, [b]he only acts when absolutely necessary
, and there is a large span of checks and balances, on a universal scale, set in place before a situation escalates to the realm of LT's jurisdiction and he has to step in and bring order.Please stop. [/B]
True enough. His standing is unknown because of the nature of the character and how he operates. Its tough luck basically. It means he doesnt have the feats to back up the notion hes beyond the IG let alone the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
but thas the problem, the force doesnt HAVE any great feats other than holding a UNIVERSE in her hands and remaking it.
The M'kraan crystal feat and the act of creating an energy matrix across the multiverse. Two multiversal level feats.
Please dont try and mention Cyclops and the X-men healing the crystal in that What If as you predictably will. Its not canon and was retconned out of existence by AOA and Jahfs subsequent comments that only Phoenix can save existence from the crystal. You have NOT A THING.🙁
BULLSHIT, gs, cyclops healed the crystal in an arc similar to the phoenix, just because ur peanut sized brain wont accept means less than crap in a debate. cyclop's optic blast could do the trick, no phoenix involved, therefore it was the CRYSTAL n not the phoenix who could heal it. these event were not retconned, and there is also the little problem that the CRYSTAL itself, was created by an alien race, if you say that its the heart of the phoenix{a wrong assumption to begin with{ then the alien race are the CREATORS of the phoenix. an alien race that was CREATED in a universe and BUILT the crystal. also the crystal was a universal reset switch, IT did the univesal feats not phoenix, the power was the crystal's NOT phoenix's{which is WHY cyclops would do the same just by activating it} the energy matrix was not multiversal power, the phoenix didnt control or affect directly the entire multiverse with it enough to give multiversal power. you have been goin on and on about phoenix being TOAA's power, but later dismissed the prospect of TOAA at ALL. making PHOENIX the supreme being, which could be PROVEN by your logic{more ambiguity n phoenix empowerment, fanboyism}. there is NOTHING to back it up, she was not present at the creation of the universe with reed richards, the bunny was{dismissing facts wont work} it was beaten by zorg/magneto. it was broken in SHARDS. ithe phoenix is just a powerful abstract which is the starter and destroyer of universes in SOME instances in marvel as other deny it, like all comics and characters/cosmics. theres nuthin very special about it.
now as far as LT goes, after the whole omega level mutant theory, all abstracts are being powered down, him included, n seeing that humanity will become both LT, and phoenix sumday. it becomes hazy as to who would be the winner CURRENTLY{classic LT wud beat the tar out of current phoenix} also the prospect of the 616 reality being connected to the multiverse makes things even hazier for any1 who has had UNIVERSAL power in the past{a lot of people}, but id still put my money on LT, he always was higher than the phoenix.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
BULLSHIT, gs, cyclops healed the crystal in an arc similar to the phoenix, just because ur peanut sized brain wont accept means less than crap in a debate. cyclop's optic blast could do the trick, no phoenix involved, therefore it was the CRYSTAL n not the phoenix who could heal it. these event were not retconned, and there is also the little problem that the CRYSTAL itself, was created by an alien race, if you say that its the heart of the phoenix{a wrong assumption to begin with{ then the alien race are the CREATORS of the phoenix. an alien race that was CREATED in a universe and BUILT the crystal. also the crystal was a universal reset switch, IT did the univesal feats not phoenix, the power was the crystal's NOT phoenix's{which is WHY cyclops would do the same just by activating it} the energy matrix was not multiversal power, the phoenix didnt control or affect directly the entire multiverse with it enough to give multiversal power. you have been goin on and on about phoenix being TOAA's power, but later dismissed the prospect of TOAA at ALL. making PHOENIX the supreme being, which could be PROVEN by your logic{more ambiguity n phoenix empowerment, fanboyism}. there is NOTHING to back it up, she was not present at the creation of the universe with reed richards, the bunny was{dismissing facts wont work} it was beaten by zorg/magneto. it was broken in SHARDS. ithe phoenix is just a powerful abstract which is the starter and destroyer of universes in SOME instances in marvel as other deny it, like all comics and characters/cosmics. theres nuthin very special about it.
Regardless of your opinion on the situation, Jahfs comments retconned that incident. I dont need to comment further on the matter. Having a mispelt rant at me for not accepting your opinion will change nothing 🙂
The crystal is the nexus of all realities. It began as a universal reset switch and this was changed again by AOA to be multiversal. Your comments are void.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5308552076.jpg&s=x402
As for the origins of the crystal, it was speculated that it was created by an alien race, its origin was unknown. It was later stated on panel it was created by the deities of Shiar faith:
And look who Sharra and Kythri really are:
Im really sorry Leon you must get really bored with this outcome 🙁
Originally posted by leonheartmm
you have been goin on and on about phoenix being TOAA's power, but later dismissed the prospect of TOAA at ALL. making PHOENIX the supreme being, which could be PROVEN by your logic{more ambiguity n phoenix empowerment, fanboyism}. there is NOTHING to back it up, she was not present at the creation of the universe with reed richards, the bunny was{dismissing facts wont work} it was beaten by zorg/magneto. it was broken in SHARDS. ithe phoenix is just a powerful abstract which is the starter and destroyer of universes in SOME instances in marvel as other deny it, like all comics and characters/cosmics. theres nuthin very special about it.
At the time i was saying Phoenix was TOAA's power i believed TOAA was marvels supreme being. I then found out that that wasnt conclusively the case. Marvel has a supreme being it just hasnt been stated to be TOAA regardless of whats suggested. I later accepted that Phoenix being linked to Marvels supreme being while heavily suggested was not canon.
If you take a look at the latest Phoenix bio it again confirms that Phoenix was the Big Bang. It also confirms that the Phoenix shape didnt come around till much later. Your arguument that cos the Big Bang wasnt Phoenix shaped that it wasnt Phoenix is naive and absurd and in light of the bio conclusively incorrect. 😉
Originally posted by leonheartmm
the energy matrix was not multiversal power, the phoenix didnt control or affect directly the entire multiverse with it enough to give multiversal power.
The Phoenix created a tower in every reality of the multiverse, creating an eneregy matrix around it. Thats a multiversal feat, Phoenix applied its power across all realities simultaneously.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
and there is also the little problem that the CRYSTAL itself, was created by an alien race, if you say that its the heart of the phoenix{a wrong assumption to begin with{ then the alien race are the CREATORS of the phoenix.
The crystal is an access point for the Crown/White Hot Room,
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/5913213385.jpg&s=x402
the Crown is the heart of the Phoenix
the crystal was built by an alien race, hence the aliens are above the phoenix and the white hot room by your logic.
as for that other rant, reposting it again and again wont change a thing, you dont have any facts and your oppinion is based on a few out of place, scans which do not show what you are claiming. exactly what every1 has come to expect from u.
The nature of The Living Tribunal as an impartial judge implies that it has more power as TOAA would not present Phoenix (life) with greater importance and power than Death since both are equally important parts of the universe. LT has no purpose except keeping the universe how TOAA likes it and is not in favour of life or death and so is the most likely to be given the most power. That said, TOAA created an omniverse with hotus in them.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
the crystal was built by an alien race, hence the aliens are above the phoenix and the white hot room by your logic.
The scans are there telling you the origin of the crystal according to the Shiar. Previously it was stated that the crystal was thought to be created by alien race who are long forgotten. Nothing conclusive was known.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
as for that other rant, reposting it again and again wont change a thing, you dont have any facts and your oppinion is based on a few out of place, scans which do not show what you are claiming. exactly what every1 has come to expect from u.
Ignoring on panel evidence when it doesnt fit in with your opinion on how things should be is something I and alot of people on here have come to expect from you. That and mispelt, illogical rants. 😮
Originally posted by Pepito
The nature of The Living Tribunal as an impartial judge implies that it has more power as TOAA would not present Phoenix (life) with greater importance and power than Death since both are equally important parts of the universe. LT has no purpose except keeping the universe how TOAA likes it and is not in favour of life or death and so is the most likely to be given the most power. That said, TOAA created an omniverse with hotus in them.
TOAA is LTs master. All thats been said about it is that its a force beyond the IG. It is not conclusively Marvels supreme being.
Phoenix is not an abstract. It is not the opposite of death. That would be Eternity as stated on panel. Phoenix is the power of creation that fuels existence and brings the abstracts into being. It to safeguards creation but has different jurisdiction. It manifests into reality via avatars to ensure the creation cycle keeps going on forever. LT maintains the balance of power in universes.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Regardless of your opinion on the situation, Jahfs comments retconned that incident. I dont need to comment further on the matter. Having a mispelt rant at me for not accepting your opinion will change nothing 🙂The crystal is the nexus of all realities. It began as a universal reset switch and this was changed again by AOA to be multiversal. Your comments are void.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5308552076.jpg&s=x402
As for the origins of the crystal, it was speculated that it was created by an alien race, its origin was unknown. It was later stated on panel it was created by the deities of Shiar faith:
And look who Sharra and Kythri really are:
Im really sorry Leon you must get really bored with this outcome 🙁
Am I the only one that doesn't see the pic of Sharra and Kythri?
