LT is superior to Phoenix Force

Originally posted by illadelph12
Wait a minute, so now TOAA isn't Marvel's creator????

in that regard, and going strictly by on-panel evidence, it hasn't/can't be conclusively proven that toaa is marvel's supreme being. really the only thing known about toaa ON-PANEL is that he is above lt. it can and HAS been assumed by many/most that toaa is mu's supreme being. that may or may not be true going by gs's strict rule of 'only on-panel material' can be used as conclusive proof. it may be the logical assumption, it may even be the correct one, but nothing on-panel has ever said toaa IS supreme or toaa IS the mu's creator.

Since TOAA never appears on panel it's just refers to whoever created the mu.

Originally posted by leonidas
in that regard, and going strictly by on-panel evidence, it hasn't/can't be conclusively proven that toaa is marvel's supreme being. really the only thing known about toaa ON-PANEL is that he is above lt. it can and HAS been assumed by many/most that toaa is mu's supreme being. that may or may not be true going by gs's strict rule of 'only on-panel material' can be used as conclusive proof. it may be the logical assumption, it may even be the correct one, but nothing on-panel has ever said toaa IS supreme or toaa IS the mu's creator.

Uh... 😑

🤨

So let me get this straight:

Even though for years it has been stated in the comics that Living Tribunal is the representative of "The One Above All" in the Marvel Multiverse and empowered with the sole purposes of protecting all of TOAA's creation, it doesn't mean that The One Above All is actually The One Above All in anything more than name only, because it's never been shown and has no feats, though every abstract and being in the MU of any form of cosmic signifigance is depicted as accepting this fact?

GS, we're homies, but please tell me this was just some kind of ruse to brainf*ck someone.

Please tell me you're not really arguing that TOAA is not the supreme being of Marvel just because you can't prove a Phoenix Force connection to it conclusively because it's not depicted in a comic.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Uh... 😑

🤨

So let me get this straight:

Even though for years it has been stated in the comics that Living Tribunal is the representative of "The One Above All" in the Marvel Multiverse and empowered with the sole purposes of protecting all of TOAA's creation, it doesn't mean that The One Above All is actually The One Above All in anything more than name only, because it's never been shown and has no feats, though every abstract and being in the MU of any form of cosmic signifigance is depicted as accepting this fact?

GS, we're homies, but please tell me this was just some kind of ruse to brainf*ck someone.

Please tell me you're not really arguing that TOAA is not the supreme being of Marvel just because you can't prove a Phoenix Force connection to it conclusively because it's not depicted in a comic.

this oughtta be good . . .

😄

I try to walk away, but they keep pulling me back in!!!!!

meh why all this fighting seesh its just a comic and the PF has been shown to be above the LT already pfft LT hasnt shown any feats to be above anyone and him holding that PF just means that it was a weak avatar nothing else.

doh

what are you doing that for

😠 Mider...

😆

illadelph is the only one presenting logic in here..

hmm, i have my own theory. just a theory mind you. but it would tie in with all the defeats and, all the wins for BOTH characters.

now lets just start off by defining "multiverse". to me, this is ever marvel universe ever. games, comics, cartoons etc. now this is what LT, and or phoenix force can manipulate.

they are unique, unlike the rest of the heirarchy in individual universes, they only have 1 collective consciouss. but, in order to act in any given universe, they have to put a portion of thier collected might, into that universe to try and act.

which would be why LT COULD pore his might into a single universe, but withdraw from the rest and have no say in them, and defeat PF. but it could go the other way around.

say there were 100 universes. LT could divide himself into 100 individual pieces, but not be all powerful in each universe. OR he could divide himself into 2 large chunks and mow through ranks of people in just 2 universes. same with phoenix.

now who's collective consciouss would be more powerful is what i would be trying to prove. cause thats the only real way to do it.

LT's feats are not great enough to take on PF he cant even take down strange with out problems and doubts his power against the IG

Originally posted by illadelph12
Uh... 😑

🤨

So let me get this straight:

Even though for years it has been stated in the comics that Living Tribunal is the representative of "The One Above All" in the Marvel Multiverse and empowered with the sole purposes of protecting all of TOAA's creation, it doesn't mean that The One Above All is actually The One Above All in anything more than name only, because it's never been shown and has no feats, though every abstract and being in the MU of any form of cosmic signifigance is depicted as accepting this fact?

GS, we're homies, but please tell me this was just some kind of ruse to brainf*ck someone.

Please tell me you're not really arguing that TOAA is not the supreme being of Marvel just because you can't prove a Phoenix Force connection to it conclusively because it's not depicted in a comic.

All that has ever ever been said about TOAA is that it is LTs master and that it is a power greater than the IG. (These days alot of things are) Regardless of whats suggested (which is actually very little) we dont know if LTs master is marvels supreme being or an agent of something bigger itself. The name in itself also isnt enough reason for us to acknowledge it as the supreme being as theres a Celestial by that name also.

My reasons for doing this arent as juvenile as that Ill. Come on you should know me better than that by now. I was highlighting hypocrisy and double standards which are prevalent in alot of peoples arguments. Regardless im 100% correct in saying that by canon LT is not the servant of the supreme being as TOAA has yet to be stated to be said being.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
illadelph is the only one presenting logic in here..

In light of the information revealed about TOAA thats really not the case. These days there are a number of powers greater than the IG. Are they supreme beings as well? 😕

Im not saying i dont think TOAA is the supreme being or that hes not intended to be the supreme being. Im saying by canon he is at this stage definitely not the supreme being and im 100% correct in saying that. To say otherwise based on assumption and speculation now that would be illogical. 😉

Originally posted by illadelph12
Am I the only one that doesn't see the pic of Sharra and Kythri?

Try this

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/3909345924.jpg&s=x7

i'm glad illadelph mentioned the "feats" clause. and i like killall's theory about collective conscious. that would explain a number of bizarre things, such as "jgg" and korvac.

we shouldn't go by feat. abstracts don't have or need feats, nor should they. in my mind all abstracts are essentially equal. if we do go be feats, though, VERY few feats in comicdom surpass the Phoenix holding/healing 616. if she had a mind to, phoenix could have destroyed it without a thought. that means galactus, abraxas, eternity, infinity, chaos/order, and the cosmic bunny himself would all be destroyed.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All that has ever ever been said about TOAA is that it is LTs master and that it is a power greater than the IG. (These days alot of things are) Regardless of whats suggested (which is actually very little) we dont know if LTs master is marvels supreme being or an agent of something bigger itself. The name in itself also isnt enough reason for us to acknowledge it as the supreme being as theres a Celestial by that name also.

My reasons for doing this arent as juvenile as that Ill. Come on you should know me better than that by now. I was highlighting hypocrisy and double standards which are prevalent in alot of peoples arguments. Regardless im 100% correct in saying that by canon LT is not the servant of the supreme being as TOAA has yet to be stated to be said being.

Understood, but I personally don't put much weight in 'feats' considering they are plot driven. I've seen Spiderman punch out a Herald, Galactus get jumped by a group of mutant Canadians, Batman horse collar a speedforce user, and my boy Frank Castle kill the entire MU.

Feats are like WWE matches; scripted and given to the observer to interpret them as they will. Far too subjective to take into full account and consideration.

I put more merit in purpose than 'feats' as far as abstract level beings and above are concerned.

LT's role is known, as is TOAAs. Looking for on panel evidence of 'feats' for characters that by their very premise are not involved in common affairs of the universe and make little to no appearances is an erroneous venture.

I understand where you're coming from, especially with the hypocricy and double standards point (and I know of whom you speak), but as I've told you before, when you have the logical high ground, there's no need or reason to stoop to that level of double talk and conjecture.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Understood, but I personally don't put much weight in 'feats' considering they are plot driven. I've seen Spiderman punch out a Herald, Galactus get jumped by a group of mutant Canadians, Batman horse collar a speedforce user, and my boy Frank Castle kill the entire MU.

Feats are like WWE matches; scripted and given to the observer to interpret them as they will. Far too subjective to take into full account and consideration.

I put more merit in purpose than 'feats' as far as abstract level beings and above are concerned.

LT's role is known, as is TOAAs. Looking for on panel evidence of 'feats' for characters that by their very premise are not involved in common affairs of the universe and make little to no appearances is an erroneous venture.

I understand where you're coming from, especially with the hypocricy and double standards point (and I know of whom you speak), but as I've told you before, when you have the logical high ground, there's no need or reason to stoop to that level of double talk and conjecture.

I know where youre coming from with the feats thing however when weighing up cosmics who both have roles integral to Marvel creation, your way doesnt work and feats are the only way we can decide on a victor. If one of the characters doesnt have the feats because of the nature of the character and its role then for lack of a better phrase its tough luck.

While my theories were more logical i must admit that these people who im aiming this course of action at were correct that they were not canon. There was no avoiding that regardless of what was suggested and i can and have learned to admit that. By looking at their own theories and applying the same terms ive highlighted their hypocrisy and double standards time and time again and theyve ultimately come off worse. Even with that done i cant now go back to just accepting the suggested and treating it as canon because after all that been said that would then make me a hypocrite. 😂

Point being, the phoenix outside of the white hot room is only as powerful as its avatars, thus if the LT is more powerful then its Avatars then respectively then LT is more powerful then the phoenix. Claiming that within the white hot room the phoenix force is more powerful then the LT is also not completely grounded (nor is it known if this is true) because if the Phoenix Force cannot act outside of the White hot room without a host, then it's influence is restricted very much so.

Some thing for you to think about, when the entire Marvel Megaverse was being threatened, was the phoenix force or any of its avatars able to stop it? No it did nothing and I believe it was because it could do nothing and you have no on panel scans to prove other wise or that it just chose to do nothing, because even TOAA stepped up to stop Thanos. Even though the LT was defeated he was at least able to stand up to the HOTU, which the Phoenix Force or any of its avatars were never shown to be able to do, and claiming "o but the phoenix force could have if it wanted to, but it didnt chose to," is speculation, in which there are no on panel scans of the Pheonix force of any of its avatars being shown standing up to and stoping Thanos (with the HOTU), thus cannot be proven by scans. In the end of that arc TOAA reversed everything Thanos with the HOTU did. Thus going by on panel feats, HOTU/TOAA>PF, which I would like to also bring up that the phoenix force did nothing, I believe not because it chose not to but rather because it couldn't do anythin to stop the HOTU.

Galactic Storm your attitude of "I am wiser then though, thus whatever you say is meaningless" really holds little influence and sway to others.