Originally posted by forumcrew
Why is England struggling so much in the cup? Obviously 2 wins assuming this 1-0 holds is still 2 wins. But these 2 being 1-0 were both disapointing games, especailyl today, it doesnt seem like they are going to be able contend with the better teams.
who is struggling? england played very well today. its hard to score when the oppositions only objective is to put 11 man behind the ball.
It was like a practice game against a load of robots camped in their own half. England played OK - better than their first game - and now we've finally managed to score in the second half of a World Cup game under Eriksson!
Lennon looked hot after he came on. Crouch missed a sitter and an easy header, but at least he got the break-through. Great strike from Gerrard, and Roonaldinho is back! So, things are looking...better.
England struggled for that whole match. Hislop never had to make a serious save until the end, and as someone said to me today, the commentator said they need Rooney, so they might as well admit being shit.
Trinidad and Tobago held them to a draw until the dying minutes and had more chances than England. A win is a win, but they won't get anywhere playing like that against Argentina, Holland, Italy if they keep up their style this time, Brazil if they get into the swing of things.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
England struggled for that whole match. Hislop never had to make a serious save until the end, and as someone said to me today, the commentator said they need Rooney, so they might as well admit being shit.Trinidad and Tobago held them to a draw until the dying minutes and had more chances than England. A win is a win, but they won't get anywhere playing like that against Argentina, Holland, Italy if they keep up their style this time, Brazil if they get into the swing of things.
-AC
yes but argentina wont defend. which would give england better opportunity to score goals. much better performance frome ngland though and we had a few chances.
Originally posted by Deano
yes but argentina wont defend. which would give england the opportunity to score goals.
Argentina won't defend? Read that back and tell me if you think it makes sense.
England can't play this way against the better teams. They've only had Trinidad and Paraguay so far, both been dodgy wins, shit games for England. When they face a team with great attacking prowess and the ability to score multiple goals, they'll crumble.
Trinidad has players that were cutting England's defense to ribbons, they lacked finishing is all.
Let's also remember that this is Trinidad...Trinidad. Fans are rejoicing in relief over a win against Trinidad.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Argentina won't defend? Read that back and tell me if you think it makes sense.England can't play this way against the better teams. They've only had Trinidad and Paraguay so far, both been dodgy wins, shit games for England. When they face a team with great attacking prowess and the ability to score multiple goals, they'll crumble.
Trinidad has players that were cutting England's defense to ribbons, they lacked finishing is all.
Let's also remember that this is Trinidad...[b]Trinidad
. Fans are rejoicing in relief over a win against Trinidad.-AC [/B]
i think you know what i mean. they wont defend like trinidad did. that sole purpose.
england will crumble? you mean like they did(didnt) against argentina in october? i dont think so..but only time will tell.
trinidad had players who cut our defence to ribbons? lol. yeh when we left one person in defence trying to score a goal.n you seem bitter.
remember your brazil played rubbish agaisnt croatia. we know they can do better
Originally posted by Deano
england will crumble? you mean like they did(didnt) against argentina in october? i dont think so..but only time will tell.
You mean the game where Argentina were swamping England? Where they were all over England and winning, until they took off key players and admittedly let the gates open for England to score two last minute jam goals? That game? Because England got out played, they weren't the better team. They just got the win, and the score didn't tell the story.
Originally posted by Deano
trinidad had players who cut our defence to ribbons? lol. yeh when we left one person in defence trying to score a goal.n you seem bitter.
Exactly, and that's why England are shit. Resorting to leaving one man in defense due to drastic tactics to try and get a goal against Trinidad. If it was Tevez, Crespo, Saviola, Pauleta, Ronaldinho, Robinho etc, they would be down by a goal if they let that happen. They were lucky that Trinidad had no great strikers. Let's not deny that.
I'm not bitter, but I can see what will happen if England continue to progress. They've been playing shit, sub par, yet everyone wants to ignore it and revel in the wins. Surely as an England fan you would want England to win positively and with some sort of vigour, rather than struggling and then piling everyone up.
Originally posted by Deano
remember your brazil played rubbish agaisnt croatia. we know they can do better
Not denying that they had a bad game, but at least their goal was of exceptional quality. Gerrard hits and hopes, Crouch misses many great chances, scores one header and gets praised, he's like Beckham with free kicks. Brazil won their first game of their own power, England have played two and won one off the back of their own goals, and even then they were drawing until the 80th plus minute.
Spain, who I never liked, won 4-0 against Ukraine, Argentina won by a couple of goals, Czech Repbulic won by 3-0, Italy dominated to a 2-0 win. All of those games were controlled victories, England had to put their whole team up and almost risk getting beat by Trinidad. Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Iran are out there playing with more passion and enthusiasm than England. They're not exactly doing good. Andy Gray often says "The score doesn't tell the story", and in England's case, never has a truer phrase been spoken.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]You mean the game where Argentina were swamping England? Where they were all over England and winning, until they took off key players and admittedly let the gates open for England to score two last minute jam goals? That game? Because England got out played, they weren't the better team. They just got the win, and the score didn't tell the story.
they will always have more possesion of the ball. they are technically better. but its what you do with it what counts. england scored a goal when argentina had key players playing, so saying england won because key players was taken off, well it wont wash with me. could riquelme of stopped gerrard whipping a ball in down the right???? no!!!
and england should of scored a couple more. argentina's first goal came when a unfit bridge was exploited. see we can all make excuses cant we? oh and there second goal came from a freekick which definetly wasnt a freekick...im getting good at this
Exactly, and that's why England are shit. Resorting to leaving one man in defense due to drastic tactics to try and get a goal against Trinidad. If it was Tevez, Crespo, Saviola, Pauleta, Ronaldinho, Robinho etc, they would be down by a goal if they let that happen. They were lucky that Trinidad had no great strikers. Let's not deny that.
they wont do that agaisnt brazil though will they?!!?!?!?!? No. so bang goes your argument.
I'm not bitter, but I can see what will happen if England continue to progress. They've been playing shit, sub par, yet everyone wants to ignore it and revel in the wins. Surely as an England fan you would want England to win positively and with some sort of vigour, rather than struggling and then piling everyone up.
when lennon and rooney came on they played much better, the game was flowing for them. its hard when a team plays defensively against you. always will be hard for any team.
Not denying that they had a bad game, but at least their goal was of exceptional quality. Gerrard hits and hopes, Crouch misses many great chances, scores one header and gets praised, he's like Beckham with free kicks. Brazil won their first game of their own power, England have played two and won one off the back of their own goals, and even then they were drawing until the 80th plus minute.
good strike from kaka but the keeper was all over the place positionaly. crouch missed one great chance btw. im not denying england played badly in the 2nd half of the first game, and they found it hard against t&t, but i know they can play better, and they did when sven made...wait for it.....two good tactical decisions that worked for once
Spain, who I never liked, won 4-0 against Ukraine, Argentina won by a couple of goals, Czech Repbulic won by 3-0, Italy dominated to a 2-0 win. All of those games were controlled victories, England had to put their whole team up and almost risk getting beat by Trinidad. Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Iran are out there playing with more passion and enthusiasm than England. They're not exactly doing good. Andy Gray often says "The score doesn't tell the story", and in England's case, never has a truer phrase been spoken.
the score does tell the story, england went to attack and got the goals...late..but got them in the end. when you attack, you are always risking the counter from the opposition. but england showed desire to get forward and keep plugging away.
would spain of scored 4 if ukraine played with t&t's tactics? no. you are reading and comparing things wrongly. i dont think italy dominated..ghana went to attack and should of got a couple of goals. ghana gave it a great go. no negative tactics involved...unlike trinidad.
Originally posted by Df02
Lennon won that game for England, England did absolutely shit until he came on and sparked the team into life.Rooney did jack shit, hopefully the fans shut up about him now they realise he has very little effect on team that is performing hugely below par.
England are the new Spain
give rooney chance, he has just come back
Originally posted by Deano
they will always have more possesion of the ball. they are technically better. but its what you do with it what counts. england scored a goal when argentina had key players playing, so saying england won because key players was taken off, well it wont wash with me. could riquelme of stopped gerrard whipping a ball in down the right???? no!!!
I don't care if it'll wash with you or not, Deano. You believe what you want, I saw England get dominated in that game. The score didn't tell the story.
Originally posted by Deano
and england should of scored a couple more. argentina's first goal came when a unfit bridge was exploited. see we can all make excuses cant we? oh and there second goal came from a freekick which definetly wasnt a freekick...im getting good at this
We can all make excuses, but we usually don't, we leave that to the England fans, as I'll prove very soon.
Originally posted by Deano
they wont do that agaisnt brazil though will they?!!?!?!?!? No. so bang goes your argument.
I don't put anything past England's stupidity anymore, to be perfectly honest. They'd pile men up to get a goal and then pile men back to stop conceding, typical England style.
Originally posted by Deano
when lennon and rooney came on they played much better, the game was flowing for them. its hard when a team plays defensively against you. always will be hard for any team.
England have always been a team that relies on whoever is that year's hope. England and Beckham in France, Rooney in Germany etc. They never go to World Cups without listening to the hype, as a team. They go as a bunch of nearly men when compared to whoever the English press happen to love. Which is why it was shit for the commentator to say "We need Rooney." You might aswell lay down.
Originally posted by Deano
good strike from kaka but the keeper was all over the place positionaly. crouch missed one great chance btw. im not denying england played badly in the 2nd half of the first game, and they found it hard against t&t, but i know they can play better, and they did when sven made...wait for it.....two good tactical decisions that worked for once
Crouch missed a chance because he tried to be a skillful footballer, rather than a sensible one. I know they HAVE played better, I don't necessarily say they can.
Originally posted by Deano
the score does tell the story, england went to attack and got the goals...late..but got them in the end. when you attack, you are always risking the counter from the opposition. but england showed desire to get forward and keep plugging away.
If you saw the scored "2-0 to England" and you didn't see the game, you would probably assume that it was relatively easy (I say "You" in general). Purely because it's Trinidad, but it wasn't easy. Beckham said "We knew we'd have our hands full and have a tough game." It was Trinidad, and they were going in expecting a fight.
Originally posted by Deano
would spain of scored 4 if ukraine played with t&t's tactics? no. you are reading and comparing things wrongly. i dont think italy dominated..ghana went to attack and should of got a couple of goals. ghana gave it a great go. no negative tactics involved...unlike trinidad.
They dominated in the sense of Italy finding their one weakness and not stopping until they got some goals. They weren't struggling, Ghana were just very good. They exposed Ghana easily when they got the chance, England can't say the same for Trinidad. Trinidad's defense worked extremely well.
-AC
Originally posted by Deano
give rooney chance, he has just come back
im not slating him, just saying he did absolutely nothing... so hopefully everyone will shut the **** up about him for a while, hes NOT Englands best player, he DOESNT magically make England good.
he's just a player, the reason England suck without him is because Svens tactics are wank.
That's another comment I meant to reply to.
"Give Rooney a chance, he's just come back."
He hadn't scored in ages for England even before he got injured, why do people uphold this fantasy that he's going to walk back onto the pitch and aid a 5-0 whooping of any team? He doesn't win every game for Manchester United, why would he do it for England? He's Wayne Rooney, not Jesus Christ.
-AC
England were better this time round but thats really not saying much.
Yeah you could say that Trinidad played very defensively but thats no excuse for the lack of imagination shown. That miss by Crouch that almost hit the corner flag was pathetic, he had all the time in the world to control it and pick his spot. He finally did what he is supposed to do and win a header and score but for such a tall man he isnt very good in the air. He rarely jumps and is easily out muscled by most center backs, he should be able to win every high ball if he positions himself properly and attacks the ball.
Owen was invisible but i think hes style of play is better suited to play with Rooney if he is going to play more. Rooney likes to pick the ball up quite deep and Owen (or Defoe) could capitalise from the attention that Rooney draws. Lampard was surprisingly inaccurate with his shot, he had a few chances that he usually puts away. Lennon was a bright spark when he came on, i hope to see more of him because he really puts pressure on the defense with his mazy runs. The one area he lacks in is his crossing though which unfortunately is so important for a winger. Talking of crosses Beckham was awful with his delivery, some of his free kicks didnt even clear the wall. Gerrards goal was quality, i disagree that he just hits and hopes. He puts alot of power in his shots and he doesnt often sidefoot them but most of the time he is on target and at least forces a save. That shot was top left hand corner and just like his equaliser in the Cup Final unstoppable.
All in all England did what they had to do, they have played poorly and still qualified. They need to have more imagination and up their workrate in the Sweden game, the Swedes wont sit back like T&T and will certainly put pressure on Englands defense. After that England have to play with some desperation, no more standing around and playing the ball square for 20 minutes. They need to play like they are a goal down at all times or they wont beat any quality teams.