"Brokeback Mountain"- How its effected America.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
It doesn't matter what his intentions are. Would you follow someone who says, believably, that he is going to cut a child in half?

Your generalizing, I would need to know why he/she was going to cut said baby in half. Unless they had a VERY good reason that was nessary and without any other option I would never follow that person.

However, Solomon knew using the threat of cutting the baby in half would draw out the real mother. Of course had I been alive at the time and been present at the event without prior knowledge of the outcome I would have been horrifed at the prospect of the baby being brutally murdered.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak You also didnt answer my last question, why is a sinner worth following?

I don't follow or worship Solomon he's just a man. To follow or worship Solomon would be breaking the third commandment (Lord knows I broken most of them). I worship Jesus and therefore the being I believe to be God.

But Solomon's teachings are included in the Bible, the book that I believe to be God's guidebook so to speak. So in essence I follow them or at least look to them for guidance as I look to all the books of the Bible. Of course you cannot take the Bible at face value entirely and I'm sure without a doubt there are Bible scholars far wiser than I who could make better sense of the passage. I'm just sixteen after all.

Unfortunately, the Bible is severely edited and incomplete. Not so much God's guidebook, as man's interpretation of what god's guidebook should be.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What kind of mother would let a person who would cut a child in half have her child?

1.) Have the child cut in half.

2.) Have the child go to an unfit mother.

Whadda ya think?

Originally posted by daTROOF
Well let's consider the options.

1.) Have the child cut in half.

2.) Have the child go to an unfit mother.

Whadda ya think?

She wasn't an 'unfit' mother, she wanted the child as her own, I assume if she wanted it she'd love it and take care of it.

The one who was willing to let the child be cut in half was an unfit mother. Read a little closer the post I responded to.

Anyway looking back I'm not even sure if he was being serious.

I just noticed something... WTF does this have to do with Brokeback Mountain?! 0_o

The movie has given us the gay cowboy jokes. cowboy

Originally posted by daTROOF
The one who was willing to let the child be cut in half was an unfit mother. Read a little closer the post I responded to.

Anyway looking back I'm not even sure if he was being serious.

Where in the Bible does it say that this woman was unfit to be a mother to the child? It only says that she was not the child's birth mother.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I just noticed something... WTF does this have to do with Brokeback Mountain?! 0_o

...

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

dun dun duuunnnnn

Edited because it's a repeat.

So here's a dancing banana: 💃

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I just noticed something... WTF does this have to do with Brokeback Mountain?! 0_o

Not much.

As often happens in these discussions, the lefties have turned the debate from the topic to my religious beliefs, and even gone as far as to debate historical figures from the Bible.

This of course doesn't surprise me, but it does sadden me.

Many Christians today are not really following what they ought to be doing as believers and are mis-representing Jesus himself.

We are not to hate anybody, or to preach of going to hell, fire and brimstone, wickedness.... etc.....

Actually, we are supposed to show Christ's love. We are called to "love people into the Kingdom".... not brow-beat them or shame them.

(I myself have gotten testy with people in these forums when pushed, and I apologize for that.)

I have said this before in other threads and I'll say it again:

I don't hate gay people.

Really, I don't. In high school I had close friends who were gay. (as a typical male, they were all lesbians, but....). I knew other guys were gay, and I didn't beat them or ignore them. I talked to them. Just as I would talk to any other class mate. I knew that they had valuable opinons and talents.

It doesn't mean that I agreed with what they did, but I didn' hate them for who they were.

It is possible to hate a sin, but not hate the sinner. (as God did with ALL of us, according to my beliefs.)

In any event, Christ died for all people, gay and straight alike.

That doesn't mean however, that Christians will just keep quiet about things that are out of place in this world, or things that are out of balance with society and nature.

We will not sit back and say that sex is okay for anybody to just have any time anywhere, because it's their right......

(with STD's, AIDS, and pregnancy plauging people)

We will not watch and do nothing as babies are aborted by the millions each year....

(with Depression, Breast Cancer, and even death being side effects to the loss of innocent lives)

We dont agree either that Homosexuality is natural and normal.

We could never stop a person from doing what they choose, but we can stop it from being taught in elementary schools that there is homosexuality, that it's normal, that its great in fact, and that you should never be ashamed to try it. (as is being proposed by many gay-rights activists and Democrats as new curriculum for 5th graders.)

We want to presreve the place of importace that marriage has and the idea that "the family" is what makes up society, what has done so for thousands of years, and what will continue to do so.

Personally, I don't believe in gay marriage, but I do support civil unions, so that nobody is cheated out of tax breaks or any other financial benefits that they may recieve.....

I don't believe that anybody is asking too much for marriage to remain the institution that it has throughout history, rather than for it to make way for a lifestyle and behaviours that are un-natural, going against biology and God's intention for life, and in most cases, not healthy emotionaly.

We don't hate.....

We do love.....

But we won't sit by and watch the world be twisted and changed from the morally correct, and socialy beneficial ways that it has existed for many hundreds and even thousands of years,.... so that our children can grow up in a world where "anything goes", and people can do "whatever feels right to them."

People want religion "Kept in the Church walls", or "kept to yourselves" as though we would hide it in a corner.

By definition, it is how we believe about ourselves, our families, our country, and our way of life.

Whether you like it or not, most of the founding fathers were Christians, and the basis for this country's laws and its way of life are based on Judeo-Christian standards.

It's only been in the last 100 years that prayer has been removed from schools, abortions have been legalized, gay marriage has been legalized, and God is under attack in our monuments, our Pledge, even our money.

This was a Christian nation, is now, and always will be.

As such, we are loving and open, and allow all peoples, regardless of skin color, behaviour choices, or other religions in.

But that doesn't mean that they rule the roost now.

Most Christians agree that the secular movement of the last 50 years even, has done major harm, and that free-sex, abortion, and homosexuality are what needs to be "kept to yourself".

We don't want it being normalized, accepted, and practiced in our country as the norm.

To finish with the topic:

Brokeback Mountain didn't have that big of an effect on America.

It made very little money, for being so widely praised and wonderfull, and didn't win any major oscars other than Best Director, to acknowledge Ang Lee for taking the step to make a love story in which the central characters were gay men.

A small step sure, (for what, depends on your point of view) but nothing to make a fuss over.

A far better movie.... Crash, about racism, peoples hatreds, and finding forgiveness and acceptance won the best picture of the year.

As it should be.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We want to presreve the place of importace that marriage has and the idea that "the family" is what makes up society, what has done so for thousands of years, and what will continue to do so.

Personally, I don't believe in gay marriage, but I do support civil unions, so that nobody is cheated out of tax breaks or any other financial benefits that they may recieve.....

I don't believe that anybody is asking too much for marriage to remain the institution that it has throughout history, rather than for it to make way for a lifestyle and behaviours that are un-natural, going against biology and God's intention for life, and in most cases, not healthy emotionaly.

But we won't sit by and watch the world be twisted and changed from the morally correct, and socialy beneficial ways that it has existed for many hundreds and even thousands of years,.... so that our children can grow up in a world where "anything goes", and people can do "whatever feels right to them."

Whether you like it or not, most of the founding fathers were Christians, and the basis for this country's laws and its way of life are based on Judeo-Christian standards.

1. Maybe you don't realize that marriage originated not for love but for money and positions of power.

2. Where the hell did you get that everything was morally correct and socially beneficial, EVER, let alone for thousands of years?

Hundreds of years ago it was perfectly okay to marry and bone your own sister. Hmm, I wonder what your stance on that is now. Or maybe thousands of years ago, where it was morally correct to stone people to death for believing something different. I bet that was really socially beneficial.

3. Sit by and watch is exactly what you WILL do, because not everyone will allow you to interfere with their personal freaking lives. Maybe that's why Christians catch so much shit. I bet you wouldn't like it if I made it illegal for you to read the ****ing Bible. Stop trying to dictate what other people should do.

4. Yes, the founding fathers were Christians...the same Christians who wrote in the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA that there will be a SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. They, being the actual geniuses that they are, realized that religion has it's place in the lives and homes of the people who wish to practice it, NOT the government.

Or did you forget that they fled England specifically because the religion of the government persecuted them for PRACTICING WHATEVER THEY'D LIKE.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

As often happens in these discussions, the lefties have turned the debate from the topic to my religious beliefs, and even gone as far as to debate historical figures from the Bible.

Your religious beliefs became open for debate the moment you interjected them into this thread.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

I have said this before in other threads and I'll say it again:

I don't hate gay people.

Really, I don't. In high school I had close friends who were gay. (as a typical male, they were all lesbians, but....). I knew other guys were gay, and I didn't beat them or ignore them. I talked to them. Just as I would talk to any other class mate. I knew that they had valuable opinons and talents.

It doesn't mean that I agreed with what they did, but I didn' hate them for who they were.

It is possible to hate a sin, but not hate the sinner. (as God did with ALL of us, according to my beliefs.)

"I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are black."

If you are not homophobic, you do not have to qualify that you are not homophobic. Especially, by informing us how "cool" you are with gay people for having been acquainted with a couple of lesbians in high school, and for knowing a few gay guys and not beating them up.

It is not what one does, but who one is that characterizes homosexuality. One cannot love a black person, but hate his black skin color. And likewise, one cannot love a gay person, but hate that he is gay.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

We dont agree either that Homosexuality is natural and normal.

We could never stop a person from doing what they choose, but we can stop it from being taught in elementary schools that there is homosexuality, that it's normal, that its great in fact, and that you should never be ashamed to try it. (as is being proposed by many gay-rights activists and Democrats as new curriculum for 5th graders.)

You place too much value on your own opinion.

You do not have to agree with the overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is natural and an immutable characteristic, for homosexuality to be both natural and an immutable characteristic.

Nor do you have to agree that homosexuality is natural and an immutable characteristic, for it to be taught that homosexuality is both natural and an immutable characteristic.

In fact, you are more than welcome to disagree, and to teach the contrary... in a home school setting or at a private school that shares your values.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

We want to presreve the place of importace that marriage has and the idea that "the family" is what makes up society, what has done so for thousands of years, and what will continue to do so.

How does allowing same-sex couples to marry one another undermine "the place of importance marriage has" or "the idea that 'the family' is what makes up society?"

If same-sex couples did not recognize the value of marriage to society, then they would not want to be a part of the institution.

And in case you did not know, gay people have families.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

Personally, I don't believe in gay marriage, but I do support civil unions, so that nobody is cheated out of tax breaks or any other financial benefits that they may recieve.....

I don't believe that anybody is asking too much for marriage to remain the institution that it has throughout history, rather than for it to make way for a lifestyle and behaviours that are un-natural, going against biology and God's intention for life, and in most cases, not healthy emotionaly.

[list=1][*]Homosexuality is unnatural; unlike eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.

[*]Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people cannot legally get married because the world needs more children.

[*]Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

[*]Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears' 55-hour-just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.

[*]Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are property, blacks cannot marry whites, and divorce is illegal.

[*]Gay marriage should be decided by people not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not the courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.

[*]Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That is why we have only one religion in America.

[*]Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

[*]Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets, because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

[*]Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That is why single parents are forbidden to raise children.

[*]Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we have not adapted to cars or longer life spans.

[*]Civil unions, providing only some of the benefits of marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for blacks worked just as well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.[/list]

Originally posted by sithsaber408

Whether you like it or not, most of the founding fathers were Christians, and the basis for this country's laws and its way of life are based on Judeo-Christian standards.

It's only been in the last 100 years that prayer has been removed from schools, abortions have been legalized, gay marriage has been legalized, and God is under attack in our monuments, our Pledge, even our money.

This was a Christian nation, is now, and always will be..

The Founding Fathers were Deists and Freemasons who believed that government and religion should be separate. Few, if any, were Christians.

It is impossible for God to have been "under attack in our monuments, our pledge, [and] even our money" for the the past 100 years, when "In God We Trust" and "Under God" were only unconstitutionally added to U.S. currency and in the pledge of allegiance in 1955.

Likewise, privileges such as school-sponsored prayer and teacher-lead Bible reading are so illicit that they should have never been given in the first place.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

As such, we are loving and open, and allow all peoples, regardless of skin color, behaviour choices, or other religions in.

But that doesn't mean that they rule the roost now.

Most Christians agree that the secular movement of the last 50 years even, has done major harm, and that free-sex, abortion, and homosexuality are what needs to be "kept to yourself".

We don't want it being normalized, accepted, and practiced in our country as the norm.

Forty-seven million Americans have no religious preference, making "nones" more numerous than any single faith group in the United States with the exception of Roman Catholics. So you see, you are not "allowing" anyone anything.

It is also worth noting that in what you love to call a "Christian nation," fully forty percent of the population belongs to no church, temple, synagogue, or mosque.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

To finish with the topic:

Brokeback Mountain didn't have that big of an effect on America.

It made very little money, for being so widely praised and wonderfull, and didn't win any major oscars other than Best Director, to acknowledge Ang Lee for taking the step to make a love story in which the central characters were gay men.

The fact that Brokeback Mountain only grossed $174,274,456 does not seem that impressive, unless one also considers the fact that during its widest release, the film only played on 2,089 screens.

Brokeback Mountain has also been the most purchased DVD in the country since its release to home video four weeks ago.

The film received more Academy Awards nominations than any other film in 2005, and of those, won nearly half of them.

"Made very little money," and "did not win any major" awards, indeed.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
As often happens in these discussions, the lefties have turned the debate from the topic to my religious beliefs,

No, to your hypocrisy. At least in terms of my responses. You are, and will continue to be, a hypocrit, who picks and chooses your beliefs. An act that, in spite of all your grand standing, defies the truth of your judaeo-christian beliefs.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
and even gone as far as to debate historical figures from the Bible.

Yeah, so far? In no correltation to this discussion, many figures from teh bible are disputable. Like a guy living in a whale?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
This of course doesn't surprise me, but it does sadden me.

As it should, being a literal interpretationist.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Many Christians today are not really following what they ought to be doing as believers and are mis-representing Jesus himself.

That's the pot calling the kettle black, hypocrit.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We are not to hate anybody, or to preach of going to hell, fire and brimstone, wickedness.... etc.....

But, you do so, with such regularity? Why?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Actually, we are supposed to show Christ's love. We are called to "love people into the Kingdom".... not brow-beat them or shame them.

(I myself have gotten testy with people in these forums when pushed, and I apologize for that.)

As far as your bible allows, with out sounding like a hypocrit. But, name for me one passage where Christ condemns homosexuals?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I have said this before in other threads and I'll say it again:

I don't hate gay people.

you just hate everything they represent. Look it up on the forums. The argument of "love the sinner, but hate the sin has been addressed too many times to reference. Get over it, you're a bible-thumping hater.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Really, I don't. In high school I had close friends who were gay. (as a typical male, they were all lesbians, but....). I knew other guys were gay, and I didn't beat them or ignore them. I talked to them. Just as I would talk to any other class mate. I knew that they had valuable opinons and talents.

They were all lesbians, thus legitimate? I mean, after all, who wouldn't love hot chicks sucking face with each other? You're so straight. Yeah, you've been allowed the hourable discharge already.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
It doesn't mean that I agreed with what they did, but I didn' hate them for who they were.

I just think that they should be leaglly disallowed from being who they are, no biggie. Hot woman on woman love is tolerable! Jeezzzz.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
It is possible to hate a sin, but not hate the sinner. (as God did with ALL of us, according to my beliefs.)

Yeah, as is easily recognizable in your rhetoric. God hated us, but created all of us...and everything, including hell...whooooops!

Originally posted by sithsaber408
In any event, Christ died for all people, gay and straight alike.

That doesn't mean however, that Christians will just keep quiet about things that are out of place in this world, or things that are out of balance with society and nature.

So, straight people were placed here to have no adverse descisions to make, except tossing insults and rocks at fags?? Or, are they the modern Jews, that were saved from the get-go? Silly christian, tricks are for kids!
Hummmm...nature would tend to disagree with you...unless of course you were misinformed about how nature works. In both long-term, and short-term studies. Or, are studies...unatural?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We will not sit back and say that sex is okay for anybody to just have any time anywhere, because it's their right......

(with STD's, AIDS, and pregnancy plauging people)

While your "in-parenthaseis examples" are exclusivly homosexual, I don't think that any homosexual is willing to arbirarily negate the values of a monogamous relationship....no matter what you've been taught to believe.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We will not watch and do nothing as babies are aborted by the millions each year....

(with Depression, Breast Cancer, and even death being side effects to the loss of innocent lives)

But, you'll "talk the talk", but not "walk the walk". Stem cell research would , kinda, be helpful in this... Millions? What a tragedy. The bigger tragedy: Millions that no one else wants to feed.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We dont agree either that Homosexuality is natural and normal.

I'm so glad that you have "assumed the position" that you speak for all christians. It makes my job so much easier.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We could never stop a person from doing what they choose, but we can stop it from being taught in elementary schools that there is homosexuality, that it's normal, that its great in fact, and that you should never be ashamed to try it. (as is being proposed by many gay-rights activists and Democrats as new curriculum for 5th graders.)

So, you "assume the position" that homosexuality is being 'promoted'? More over that, you can't stop anyone, "but must keep trying"....FOREVER!?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We want to presreve the place of importace that marriage has and the idea that "the family" is what makes up society, what has done so for thousands of years, and what will continue to do so.

your use of quotes is...comforting. The "family"? How odd.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Personally, I don't believe in gay marriage, but I do support civil unions, so that nobody is cheated out of tax breaks or any other financial benefits that they may recieve.....

Ah, so, tax breaks and social inequity is so esaily supported by all christians, since you "speak" for them all? Despite the continued notion that one class is better than another.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I don't believe that anybody is asking too much for marriage to remain the institution that it has throughout history, rather than for it to make way for a lifestyle and behaviours that are un-natural, going against biology and God's intention for life, and in most cases, not healthy emotionaly.

We don't hate.....

We do love.....

as long as it fits our definition of love....like multiple partners, adultery and incest?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
But we won't sit by and watch the world be twisted and changed from the morally correct, and socialy beneficial ways that it has existed for many hundreds and even thousands of years,.... so that our children can grow up in a world where "anything goes", and people can do "whatever feels right to them."

"We"Created morals and values..the rest be damned? Oh, and women should be covered at all times and not be allowed to have say in their own world, or the elections that take place there-in? And "WE" have notconsidered and vaulted history of all the sins placed before the court? Pay attention to which books of the Bible you so closely subscribe. I spent 13 years in catholic school. But, unfortunately no time in childhood correctional camps.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
People want religion "Kept in the Church walls", or "kept to yourselves" as though we would hide it in a corner.

Because everyone else should? Only Christians should be allowed to be free? Bullshit.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
By definition, it is how we believe about ourselves, our families, our country, and our way of life.

too bad you're not the only ones in this country then, isn't it? Who's definition?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Whether you like it or not, most of the founding fathers were Christians, and the basis for this country's laws and its way of life are based on Judeo-Christian standards.

Wheter you like it or not, that's not what they said when they wrote the constitution.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
It's only been in the last 100 years that prayer has been removed from schools, abortions have been legalized, gay marriage has been legalized, and God is under attack in our monuments, our Pledge, even our money.

Look up your facts. The old notions may be under attack, but none of the above have been "legalized" ...OR delegalized.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
This was a Christian nation, is now, and always will be.

Never was. Your misconception might have allowed that to be the understood fact, but you are wrong. Always will be.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
As such, we are loving and open,

As long as anyone who applies fits your limited mold.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
and allow all peoples, regardless of skin color, behaviour choices, or other religions in.

As long as they're white and straight.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
But that doesn't mean that they rule the roost now.

Most Christians agree that the secular movement of the last 50 years even, has done major harm, and that free-sex, abortion, and homosexuality are what needs to be "kept to yourself".

Yes, just like heterosexuality" And the free-sex movment...is largley considered to be a falshood.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We don't want it being normalized, accepted, and practiced in our country as the norm.

Just as others don't want heterosexuality to be normalized to the point of descrimination" EXTREMLY INTERESTING, your use of the word "OUR" In fact, it sounds kind of exclusive.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

As often happens in these discussions, the lefties have turned the debate from the topic to my religious beliefs, and even gone as far as to debate historical figures from the Bible.

I don't believe that anybody is asking too much for marriage to remain the institution that it has throughout history, rather than for it to make way for a lifestyle and behaviours that are un-natural, going against biology

1. That's because you're so verbal about it and openly a biblie-thumper.

2. Exactly. If gay marriage is legalized, then bestiality and child-molestation should also be legalized. After all "they can't help it" and "they're born like that", so why deny their right to be with whom ever they choose??? 🙄

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
1. That's because you're so verbal about it and openly a biblie-thumper.

2. Exactly. If gay marriage is legalized, then bestiality and child-molestation should also be legalized. After all "they can't help it" and "they're born like that", so why deny their right to be with whom ever they choose??? 🙄

I am going to type "fundamental differences" in bold. You should think about what that means, and the absurdity of comparing child-molestation to homosexuality.

Fundamental Differences

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
1. That's because you're so verbal about it and openly a biblie-thumper.

2. Exactly. If gay marriage is legalized, then bestiality and child-molestation should also be legalized. After all "they can't help it" and "they're born like that", so why deny their right to be with whom ever they choose??? 🙄

Marriage is a legal contract between two people and the government. The day an animal or a child has both the cognitive ability and the maturity to enter into a legal contract, is they day we can address those relationships.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Marriage is a legal contract between two people and the government. The day an animal or a child has both the cognitive ability and the maturity to enter into a legal contract, is they day we can address those relationships.

Irrelavent. Never forget you're addressing people who think that there is no difference between a gay couple and a couple asking for the right to moleste a child! Or someone asking to sleep with a goat.

**** them. There is no difference. Move out here, Burl.

Have you ever met a T-Rex that wasn't standing on the edge of extinction?

Look towards tomorrow. It's happening.

"He who throws the first stone"

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
2. Exactly. If gay marriage is legalized, then bestiality and child-molestation should also be legalized. After all "they can't help it" and "they're born like that", so why deny their right to be with whom ever they choose??? 🙄

The Black Ghost> "this looks like a bad film with a lot of bad morals"

What bad morals??
Brokeback Mountain is making a LOT of money from my girldfriends and me. Hmmm, Jake Gyllenhall and Heath Ledger...

Adam_PoE> Eating shrimp is a sin??? OHMYGAWD... I am SUCH a sinner...