I was watching the episode III dvd, and i paused it just before mace was gonna kill palpy, palpatine raises his hands and draws them back....looked like force lightning was getting ready come into play again. This makes me tend to think that palpatine was just using mace to fully convert anakin, or he was just scared and didnt know what else to do to save himself.
Originally posted by tdtd
No no we're talking about the saber fight. Of course when Anakin came in Palpatine was playing the victim. It is clear that Mace was nowhere near Palpatine in force powers, Palpatine could have skull****ed him. But in the saber fight Palpatine got owned.
Why do I see illogic in someone having more inferior lightsaber skills than an opponent who is more superior at lightsaber fighting but has inferior Force wielding skills than you do? Doesn't the Force guide lightsaber duelist by almost seemingly controlling the wielders actions Palpatine was a superior Force user over Windu yet Windu was a better duelists. It doesn't somehow fit.
I think it makes more sense that there was indeed a chance that Palpatine may have faked his defeat in order to bait Anakin? He did after all ultimately defeat Windu after he cut down 3 High Counsel members in a matter of seconds. Noticed how he fell just before Anakin arrived as if he sense Anakin's arrival. As if it was planned. Noticed how Palpatine was slyly looking at Anakin while he was begging for his life to be spared. That was a look of knowing what the hell he was doing. That sneaky look.
That's all a wonderful theory but Palpatine was beaten, as it was stated. Call it the will of the force that Anakin arrived just in time. Yes the force guides lightsaber combat but only so much. That's like saying you're a natural athlete, but without practice you'll never be as good as someone who practices daily. Windu was on par with Yoda in lightsaber combat, as they both effectively disarmed Sidious. Sidious however had more force knowledge than Windu, especially Dark side knowledge which doesn't really help with lightsaber combat.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Why do I see illogic in someone having more inferior lightsaber skills than an opponent who is more superior at lightsaber fighting but has inferior Force wielding skills than you do? Doesn't the Force guide lightsaber duelist by almost seemingly controlling the wielders actions Palpatine was a superior Force user over Windu yet Windu was a better duelists. It doesn't somehow fit.I think it makes more sense that there was indeed a chance that Palpatine may have faked his defeat in order to bait Anakin? He did after all ultimately defeat Windu after he cut down 3 High Counsel members in a matter of seconds. Noticed how he fell just before Anakin arrived as if he sense Anakin's arrival. As if it was planned. Noticed how Palpatine was slyly looking at Anakin while he was begging for his life to be spared. That was a look of knowing what the hell he was doing. That sneaky look.
Note that Ulic Qel Droma, when stripped of the force, could still wield his saber to such an extent that he defeated or stalemated a fully fledged Jedi Master Aka Sylvar, adding to the fact, sylvar was full of hatred for both Kun and Ulic, thereby meaning, yes the force guides some of your saber skills, but utimately, your skills and your training with a lightsaber, override how much to force guides you.
Why doesnt it fit? Mace practised, Makashi, the most potent and strongest form in lightsaber dueling, adding on top of that Vaapad, which grants the user more focus, and a more powerful version of Makashi, Mace may have been weaker in force potential, but he was definitely stronger in saber combat.
Originally posted by tdtd
That's all a wonderful theory but Palpatine was beaten, as it was stated. Call it the will of the force that Anakin arrived just in time. Yes the force guides lightsaber combat but only so much. That's like saying you're a natural athlete, but without practice you'll never be as good as someone who practices daily. Windu was on par with Yoda in lightsaber combat, as they both effectively disarmed Sidious. Sidious however had more force knowledge than Windu, especially Dark side knowledge which doesn't really help with lightsaber combat.
Where was that stated? It was stated as much from GL that Mace won that it was stated from him that Anakin won over Dooku.
Are you sure his empire was loyal to him? His most trusted liege, Lord Vader wanted to murder him, as Sith tradition goes.
How do you know that he didn't personally take matters into his own hands during the Galactic Civil War. We both don't know. The ROTS Palpatine got his arse handed to him by Windu yet ROTJ Palpatine was seconds away from murdering the future leader of the New Jedi Order who was on many accounts more powerful than Yoda and would destroy Windu.
tdtd, as a mimimum Palpatine was in no danger during the fight with Windu. And since he was in no danger, and since he needed a way to turn Anakin, and since he faked the "I'm so weak" part (Lucas says so himself) there's a 99% chance he was faking the duel with Mace; let Mace win.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Palpatine had Royal Guards with him at all times. The only time he didn't was when he was trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side. He had an entire army on Courscant, at his disposal, not to mention a vast fleet. He needn't have trained for protection.Okay, he didn't get his ass handed to him by Windu. Who died? That's right. And ROTJ Luke being anywhere near Mace's power is ridiculous. That's like saying Dooku's the strongest person in the Galaxy because he pwnd the Chosen One. And Vader did all the dirty work. He's the enforcer. Palpatine had his own things to do, in the senate.
So what if Palpatine had royal guards with him at all times. He was still vulnerable to traitors and other people even as close as in his inner circle. In fact, someone from his inner circle went on and killed him in the end. With his vast fleet and army at his disposal. He had to have trained for protection.
And secondly, ROTS Palpatine did get his arse handed to him. Windu disarmed him knocked him on his ass at pointed his saber at the Sith's throat, telling him the he "has lost" with Palpatine not saying anything while almost having what seemed like a asthmatic attack and the looked of utter defeat. If that's not a genuine handing of the ass, then I don't know what else it is.
And I didn't say ROTJ Luke was anywhere near Mace's power. I said Palpatine was seconds away from defeating the future NJO leader, a person who can effortlessly beat Mace and perhaps Yoda even.
Originally posted by darthsith19
tdtd, as a mimimum Palpatine was in no danger during the fight with Windu. And since he was in no danger, and since he needed a way to turn Anakin, and since he faked the "I'm so weak" part (Lucas says so himself) there's a 99% chance he was faking the duel with Mace; let Mace win.
Lucas also said that Mace overpowered Sidious and Sidious used his powers to try and destroy Mace. Sidious only began faking AFTER he tried to kill Mace with his initial lightning. So in fact, Sidious WAS in danger when he realized he was unable to kill Mace with his initial lightning, which was why he called Anakin for help.