DN Luke Runs a Short Guantlet

Actually Wesker, try gaining some reading comprehension. I only mentioned Luke's potential once and never again. Nai's argument was based on the feats I posted, since nobody before that defended Luke in any way. And we're "blowing" Luke as you call it because you and IKC have been verbally fellating Kun for G-d knows how long, so obviously you would get upset when Kun's achievements aren't comparable to someone like Luke anymore. And Kun spent a few months? Nice speculation.... Unlike you I'm not a fanboy of anybody except maybe Ragnos, but I love to argue with fanboys.

Originally posted by Wesker
Heh? They didn't train from youth in TOTJ era...

Do you have proof? Vima trained from childhood.

Of course he doesn't have proof, he has speculation. At least the things I have listed are proof..

Also I don't want any trouble. Part of my deal is that I lay off of the insults and do not break anymore rules. Think of it this way. If my ban is uplifted I will no longer cause any trouble and will be less of a nuisance. If it is not, I will act just as I did before and not tell anybody that it is me.

Numan unfortunately when you diminsh the ability of someone's favorite character and you are on thin ice, there are going to be personal attacks.

That desn't matter to me. As long as I don't insult back and if Rex gives me another chance, I should be allowed to stay on these forums.

Originally posted by tdtd
Actually Wesker, try gaining some reading comprehension.

Please. I read far better than you. You're the idiot who had the comic -supposively- right in front of him and was still wrong.

I only mentioned Luke's potential once and never again.

This is bullshit. You've said "DN Luke reached his full potential" on half a dozen threads if not more. Don't think you're fooling anyone by denying it.

Nai's argument was based on the feats I posted, since nobody before that defended Luke in any way.

No, Nai brought up things and used quotes from the books. He also put them in better context, though some of them can still be argued. All you'd say is one or two lines agreeing with whoever did the arguing for you and then claim it as your own thoughts. This is bullshit. You supposively just barely got the books. How can you argue shit you don't know, tdtd?

And we're "blowing" Luke as you call it because you and IKC have been verbally fellating Kun for G-d knows how long, so obviously you would get upset when Kun's achievements aren't comparable to someone like Luke anymore.

Actually, before you came along and this whole fiasco with Luke, I didn't give a damn one way or another how Kun stacked up against others. He was right below Freedan Nadd (Living) and that's all I thought about. I didn't put him on a pedestal and I certainly wasn't ever a Kun fanboy. But the recent "Kun-hating" faction is starting to get annoying. At least IKC has scans and good arguments. His opposition is comprised of you (A troll), Fishy (Who nitpicks too goddamn much and the whole argument gets off track), Numan (The socking moron), and Nai (Who has good points compared to the rest of you, but barely posts). And if I recall correctly, when this first popped up, someone was saying NJo Luke > Kun, which was ridiculous in light of "established" knowledge about both parties, so I naturally objected.

And Kun spent a few months? Nice speculation.... Unlike you I'm not a fanboy of anybody except maybe Ragnos, but I love to argue with fanboys.

I've never been a fanboy, tdtd. Fanboys argue ad naseum with underhanded debating tactics and don't listen to conventional proof and reason. That would be... you. And Numan. And a handful of other people around here. Not me.

Originally posted by zod69
Do you have proof? Vima trained from childhood.

Vima had a solitary jedi mother raised away from the council. Her mother didn't receive jedi training from childhood, and neither did Ulic.

Nomi didn't train as a child out of choice. And whether Ulic did or not is unknown (to my knowledge). And also who am I a fanboy of?

Originally posted by Wesker
It's a good point because while everyone's taking turns blowing Luke for his sheer skillz (and btw, I love how consistant Luke really is... He's being tossed from author to author, coming up with force powers literally out of his ass) the guy -supposively- has ALL this force knowledge and experience and time to work and study and train...

And Kun spends a few months and WTFpwns every force user of his time.

Tdtd was arguing potential, which is why I brought the point up. While I thought we had agreed that potential is a useless trait, he continues to bring it up whenever he gets the chance. And that's really irritating, hearing someone get all wound up over the "reached potential" of someone who's going to be sixty. It'd be like someone bragging about Yoda reaching his full potential over Anakin. WTF?

I think Nai raises an argument worth examining. I don't think tdtd has, and he's really just out to piss everyone else off.

True but just because his argument annoys you doesn't mean you have to start using it yourself. Whatever the hell he has claimed has nothing to do with the thread. and you saying that Kun learned things faster also has nothing to do with anything, it doesn't matter and bringing it up is quite irrelevant.

Oh and I don't nitpick I want to know the truth about characters instead of fanboy lies or exaggerations.. If thats nitpicking then sorry, but a lot of what is claimed is bullshit, based on lies or false information.

I would like to say you're a fanboy of ignorance, since you've displayed amazing feats of noncomprehension.

And there's nothing at all that indicates Exar Kun was trained from childhood. If anything, the idea of a master making adult jedi spar together would suggest that they are all late coming jedi, as opposed to in Dark Rendezvous, where such sparring was among younger jedi.

Originally posted by Fishy
True but just because his argument annoys you doesn't mean you have to start using it yourself. Whatever the hell he has claimed has nothing to do with the thread. and you saying that Kun learned things faster also has nothing to do with anything, it doesn't matter and bringing it up is quite irrelevant.

Of course it is. It's all quite irrelevant.

Oh and I don't nitpick I want to know the truth about characters instead of fanboy lies or exaggerations.. If thats nitpicking then sorry, but a lot of what is claimed is bullshit, based on lies or false information.

I haven't seen you nitpick on DN Luke once, Fishy. Haven't seen you nitpick on NJO Luke in months. Haven't seen you nitpick on Nihilus, or Ragnos, or Freedan Nadd, or anyone else really. But apparently you are giving Kun the full broadsides. That's a bit narrowminded on your part.

No thats because I know jack shit about DN Luke so its really impossible to do. I have to just assume that what I'm told is the truth.

Nihilus just has one thing, the eating ability. That makes him win every fight, don't see how you can nitpick on that. Except for people using him in threads which just sucks because Nihilus is the suckiest thing ever. And I don't really see anybody claiming Ragnos or Nadd or anybody else (that I know off) has done things that they haven't done.

If I do something like that i'll be sure to adress it and argue it... But because it doesn't happen as much you won't see me arguing about it as much.

I find that really rather silly. You don't question what you're told about Luke, but you'll argue and nitpick on Kun scans until the cows come home. I'm not sure what it is that prompted you to suddenly become the self-appointed Kun destroyer, but it's not a nice change.

Originally posted by Wesker
I would like to say you're a fanboy of ignorance, since you've displayed amazing feats of noncomprehension.

And there's nothing at all that indicates Exar Kun was trained from childhood. If anything, the idea of a master making adult jedi spar together would suggest that they are all late coming jedi, as opposed to in Dark Rendezvous, where such sparring was among younger jedi.

There is no proof that jedi in that era were trained later, however there is lots of evidence to suggest they were trained. Also it was Thon, a wise jedi master and not Nomi that decided Vima should be trained. There is also the fact that in KOTOR times which is around 40 years after Exar Kun's war, the jedi train children. This is shown in the new KOTOR comics in the scene with Vandar.

Originally posted by Wesker
I find that really rather silly. You don't question what you're told about Luke, but you'll argue and nitpick on Kun scans until the cows come home. I'm not sure what it is that prompted you to suddenly become the self-appointed Kun destroyer, but it's not a nice change.

How can I say anything about Luke when I don't know anything about him? All I can do is doubt the information i'm given but without my own information I can't argue anything.

and I am not trying to destroy Kun, like I already said in another thread i'm trying to value him for what he really is, and some of the statements about him are just wrong or over the top.

Originally posted by zod69
There is no proof that jedi in that era were trained later, however there is lots of evidence to suggest they were trained. Also it was Thon, a wise jedi master and not Nomi that decided Vima should be trained. There is also the fact that in KOTOR times which is around 40 years after Exar Kun's war, the jedi train children. This is shown in the new KOTOR comics in the scene with Vandar.

Again, you'ved missed the point- you're claiming Exar Kun advanced faster than Luke because he was trained from a child. Prove up. KOTOR is forty years later. Hell, in KOTOR the Jedi use terms like "padawan", they have sleeker, more modern ships, the lightsabers more closely resemble PT era, they have actual lightsaber forms, and half of the information that is supposed to reflect TOTJ times is screwed up or wrong. I would not consider KOTOR to be definate proof that Exar Kun was trained from infancy, and the fact that he was as an adult sparring against another jedi under the tutledge of Vodo (And he even remarked that he had not finished his lightsaber training yet, but in the PT times where jedi ARE trained from children, they start at about eight and finish in ten years with the basic Form I) hints that he wasn't.

Originally posted by Fishy
How can I say anything about Luke when I don't know anything about him? All I can do is doubt the information i'm given but without my own information I can't argue anything.

and I am not trying to destroy Kun, like I already said in another thread i'm trying to value him for what he really is, and some of the statements about him are just wrong or over the top.

The natural default opinion on anything is skepticism, of course. But that's in absence of evidence and proof. If Luke supporters make a claim and offer no proof, how can you let them just slide by and say "I can't argue anything"? Sure you can. Argue what they put forth. Maybe it's hyperbolic. Maybe the feat is out of context. Maybe you can find out by doing online research. You sure poured over TOTJ comics left and right to "Help value Kun for what he really is" and yet you haven't so much as double checked a Luke supporter's claims?

That's not reasonable, that's daft. Instead of trying to install your own sense of mediation on Kun claims, try and keep a handle on the rest of the rabble. If you really are trying to "keep it real" around here, don't just hone in on one guy. Pick on them all or don't pick at all.

Originally posted by Wesker
Again, you'ved missed the point- you're claiming Exar Kun advanced faster than Luke because he was trained from a child. Prove up. KOTOR is forty years later. Hell, in KOTOR the Jedi use terms like "padawan", they have sleeker, more modern ships, the lightsabers more closely resemble PT era, they have actual lightsaber forms, and half of the information that is supposed to reflect TOTJ times is screwed up or wrong. I would not consider KOTOR to be definate proof that Exar Kun was trained from infancy, and the fact that he was as an adult sparring against another jedi under the tutledge of Vodo (And he even remarked that he had not finished his lightsaber training yet, but in the PT times where jedi ARE trained from children, they start at about eight and finish in ten years with the basic Form I) hints that he wasn't.

I think it is you who needs to prove up. The facts are in the time of Exar Kun, there are examples if jedi being trained as children, such as Vima. In the times of KOTOR, there are examples of jedi being trained early on as well (this is seen in the 2nd addition of the KOTOR comics in the scene with Vandar), and thought KOTOR may have not been reliable about TOTJ in terms of people like Ragnos and Sadow, it is very reliable in terms of Exar Kun which was only 40 years before, instead of 1000 years like the original TOTJ comics. There is no evidence to suggest that that jedi were trained later, so I do not have to prove anything. Also how are Kotor lightsabers more similar to PT lightsabers than the lightsabers in Exar Kun's time. In fact the the lightsabers of the younger generation are very similar. And I do not see how the Ebon Hawk for instance is sleeker than the Nebulon Ranger. And when Exar Kun says that he hasn't finished his training yet, I think he means that he hasn't mastered his form yet. Students in the PT era do not master their forms until very late, and by the gae of ten have not completely finished their training. And also, wasn't Exar Kun a practitioner of makashi? I think he is so I do not know what you are gettin at with your point about forms.

No, you're taking the exception and making it the rule. Show me other jedi in KUN's time and not KOTOR that were trained from children.