Vima, as I have mentioned before. KOTOR is also only forty years afterwards, so if you think of the complete timeline of Star Wars, it is not that long. Numerous jedi such as Jolee Bindo were around at the time. And I think that my post explains how KOTOR times aren't that different to Exar Kun's time.
Originally posted by zod69
Vima, as I have mentioned before. KOTOR is also only forty years afterwards, so if you think of the complete timeline of Star Wars, it is not that long. Numerous jedi such as Jolee Bindo were around at the time. And I think that my post explains how KOTOR times aren't that different to Exar Kun's time.
After the Sith War, the entire jedi Order was reformed... A lot of new rules were made. The Kotor Jedi Order is a completely different Jedi Order then the order from Kun his time, there is no evidence to suggest that what happened in Kotor times also happened during that time.
Kotor for instance has a Council, it doesn't allow love, or children or possesions. 40 years earlier that was completely different and not a problem. The Order probably reformed to prevent others from falling to the Dark Side like Ulic and Kun did. Kotor Jedi Order does not resemble Kun's Jedi Order.
Originally posted by Fishy
After the Sith War, the entire jedi Order was reformed... A lot of new rules were made. The Kotor Jedi Order is a completely different Jedi Order then the order from Kun his time, there is no evidence to suggest that what happened in Kotor times also happened during that time.Kotor for instance has a Council, it doesn't allow love, or children or possesions. 40 years earlier that was completely different and not a problem. The Order probably reformed to prevent others from falling to the Dark Side like Ulic and Kun did. Kotor Jedi Order does not resemble Kun's Jedi Order.
Fishy covers it.
Originally posted by Wesker
No, you're taking the exception and making it the rule. Show me other jedi in KUN's time and not KOTOR that were trained from children.
Thon did not give any evidence that Vima was an exception. If hardly any other jedi as young as her were trained as a jedi, a wise and traditional jedi wouldn't have decided to train her straight away without careful thought.
Originally posted by zod69
Thon did not give any evidence that Vima was an exception. If hardly any other jedi as young as her were trained as a jedi, a wise and traditional jedi wouldn't have decided to train her straight away without careful thought.
Thon didn't give evidence Nomi was an exception either, and like I already said the entire Jedi Order reformed after what happened during the Sith Wars... Rules changed.
Originally posted by Fishy
After the Sith War, the entire jedi Order was reformed... A lot of new rules were made. The Kotor Jedi Order is a completely different Jedi Order then the order from Kun his time, there is no evidence to suggest that what happened in Kotor times also happened during that time.Kotor for instance has a Council, it doesn't allow love, or children or possesions. 40 years earlier that was completely different and not a problem. The Order probably reformed to prevent others from falling to the Dark Side like Ulic and Kun did. Kotor Jedi Order does not resemble Kun's Jedi Order.
A few changes is not sufficient to say that the different orders are completely different. Jedi masters in the time of Exar Kun like Thon helped restore the jedi order. I doubt they would have made it too different.
Originally posted by Fishy
Thon didn't give evidence Nomi was an exception either, and like I already said the entire Jedi Order reformed after what happened during the Sith Wars... Rules changed.
It is made very clear that Nomi's journey of the jedi was very unorthodox. The omniscient narrator says something about in the first issue od the Nomi Sunrider saga. Andur makes it clear that Nomi was delaying any jedi training out of choice. But lets not completely stray off topic here. there is still nio evidence that jedi in Kun's times trained later, and trying to disprove my argument doesn't change that. My main point to suggest that Kun did not have as much potential as Luke was that he only became somewhat godly when he accepted sith teachings and then his powers multiplied by very much. if Luke were to come across the same sith magic and turn over to the dark side, he would have grown stronger than Kun in a quicker amount of time.
Originally posted by zod69
A few changes is not sufficient to say that the different orders are completely different. Jedi masters in the time of Exar Kun like Thon helped restore the jedi order. I doubt they would have made it too different.
Doubt all you want there is enough prove that they have.
[LIST]
[*]No more love
[*]Several Jedi council's, with one important one that rules the others and all Jedi
[*]A Jedi Council that could actually order its members around instead of one that just gave advise
[*]More centralized Jedi training, Vodo trained a few people on Dantooine after the reformations Dantooine got an entire academy (just an example)
[*]A clear difference between ranks
[*]Maybe even tests to become knights, i'm not sure if TOTJ had that
[/LIST]
There is nothing to show that the order always trained children or adults, both seemed to happen during TOTJ times. You don't have any evidence to show otherwise.
Originally posted by Wesker
Numan, you are arguing out of your ass with nothing to show for it. Prove that someone in Kun's era besides Vima was trained from childhood. Then prove Kun was. Until then, you have nothing.
Look, you shouldn't take advantage of the fact that I am not going to insult you back by insulting me. I'm debating maturely and proffesionally, so it would be nice if you would do the same. In reply to 'You have nothing', you have not fully disproved what I said, and you have not given any evidence that they were trained a lot later, so I think you will find that I have much more then you do.
Originally posted by zod69
It is made very clear that Nomi's journey of the jedi was very unorthodox. The omniscient narrator says something about in the first issue od the Nomi Sunrider saga. Andur makes it clear that Nomi was delaying any jedi training out of choice. But lets not completely stray off topic here. there is still nio evidence that jedi in Kun's times trained later, and trying to disprove my argument doesn't change that. My main point to suggest that Kun did not have as much potential as Luke was that he only became somewhat godly when he accepted sith teachings and then his powers multiplied by very much. if Luke were to come across the same sith magic and turn over to the dark side, he would have grown stronger than Kun in a quicker amount of time.
Thats unsupported bullshit. Luke turned Dark in DE and he didn't become all powerful then. He was far more powerful then that in NJO apparently.
Originally posted by Wesker
Please. I read far better than you. You're the idiot who had the comic -supposively- right in front of him and was still wrong.This is bullshit. You've said "DN Luke reached his full potential" on half a dozen threads if not more. Don't think you're fooling anyone by denying it.
No, Nai brought up things and used quotes from the books. He also put them in better context, though some of them can still be argued. All you'd say is one or two lines agreeing with whoever did the arguing for you and then claim it as your own thoughts. This is bullshit. You supposively just barely got the books. How can you argue shit you don't know, tdtd?
Actually, before you came along and this whole fiasco with Luke, I didn't give a damn one way or another how Kun stacked up against others. He was right below Freedan Nadd (Living) and that's all I thought about. I didn't put him on a pedestal and I certainly wasn't ever a Kun fanboy. But the recent "Kun-hating" faction is starting to get annoying. At least IKC has scans and good arguments. His opposition is comprised of you (A troll), Fishy (Who nitpicks too goddamn much and the whole argument gets off track), Numan (The socking moron), and Nai (Who has good points compared to the rest of you, but barely posts). And if I recall correctly, when this first popped up, someone was saying NJo Luke > Kun, which was ridiculous in light of "established" knowledge about both parties, so I naturally objected.
I've never been a fanboy, tdtd. Fanboys argue ad naseum with underhanded debating tactics and don't listen to conventional proof and reason. That would be... you. And Numan. And a handful of other people around here. Not me.
Please, we've seen how well you read.. Until you prove where I've said Luke has reached his potential, many times, you're just making a fool out of yourself.. You know, it's very easy getting quotes from books without reading them to prove a point. Apparently the internet is a foreign concept to you.. "I'm not a fan boy you are". Very nice "I know you are but what am I argument". All of your insignificant personal attacks make you look childish and pathetic.
Originally posted by Fishy
Doubt all you want there is enough prove that they have.[LIST]
[*]No more love
[*]Several Jedi council's, with one important one that rules the others and all Jedi
[*]A Jedi Council that could actually order its members around instead of one that just gave advise
[*]More centralized Jedi training, Vodo trained a few people on Dantooine after the reformations Dantooine got an entire academy (just an example)
[*]A clear difference between ranks
[*]Maybe even tests to become knights, i'm not sure if TOTJ had that
[/LIST]There is nothing to show that the order always trained children or adults, both seemed to happen during TOTJ times. You don't have any evidence to show otherwise.
The jedi order may have slightly changed, but it can't have changed too much as people like Thon were still around. I posted something a page back I think which pointed out many similarities of the order. The facts are you have given no proof that the jedi in the time of Kun were trained much later. It is up to you to provide proof, as the jedi order in all other times have shown that jedi were trained very young, so seing as there is no proof to suggest otherwise, we have to assume that it is very likely it was still the same in this time as well.
Originally posted by Fishy
Thats unsupported bullshit. Luke turned Dark in DE and he didn't become all powerful then. He was far more powerful then that in NJO apparently.
You seem to have missed my point. I said that a Luke who had not only turned to the dark side but also had as much access as kun had to sith teachings, he would have become more powerful. In DE, he only turned to the dark side and did not undergo all of the conditions which I had proposed.
My point is Luke did more with less available to him. Obviously if he had help he would have been even more powerful but he pretty much trained himself with all those years while Kun had ancient Sith teachings... That is why DN Luke>Kun, besides the fact that he's superior to him in force abilities and maybe saber combat.