Originally posted by tdtd
Mace is still Dooku's superior although Dooku bested him once, is he not?
People, just because somebody bested somebody once in SPARRING doesn't mean they're better.
If a green belt finds an opening during sparring, and bests a black belt--Does that make him/her better? No. Sparring is a friendly exercise between comerades/friends and doesn't help an arguement.
I think Windu would beat Dooku the same way Anakin did--Dooku's style lacked physical strength and leverage. One handed sword fighting has great range, reach, and mobility, but lacks good strength.
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
People, just because somebody bested somebody once in SPARRING doesn't mean they're better.If a green belt finds an opening during sparring, and bests a black belt--Does that make him/her better? No. Sparring is a friendly exercise between comerades/friends and doesn't help an arguement.
I think Windu would beat Dooku the same way Anakin did--Dooku's style lacked physical strength and leverage. One handed sword fighting has great range, reach, and mobility, but lacks good strength.
Whoa . . . That Metaphor sucked.
You know nothing of how Dooku bested Mace so don't start chucking around assumptions. How do you know it was friendly? And how the hell is Dooku a green belt compared to Mace?
Dooku's style is one AND two handed. I could go around saying Mace lacks Finesse, tempermant and the ability to fully use the Form.
But I don't, you see.
If Dooku bested Mace once, what makes you think the Coin can't flip heads twice?
Also, Vodo beat Kun once, does that mean Vodo will beat Kun again? No he was tooled in their 2nd confrontation. We dont know when Dooku bested Mace, for all you know, he could've bested him when Mace was just a Knight, or he may have bested him, during the clone wars, honestly we dont know.
What makes you think that Mace wouldn't improve over the time after Dooku beat him?
Where does it actually say that Mace lost to Dooku? Anyhow when the duel took place, it is likely that Mace was still very inexperienced. Woot's point above kind of explains it. If you look at how they were in the films, Dooku never really displayed skill that would put him above Mace while Mace was able to defeat Sidious, and in my opinion Mace displayed far greater skill with a saber then Dooku did. However it is still an extremely long battle but I believe that Mace would eventually win. The battle between Fisto and Maul is also extremely close, as looking at Fisto outside of the movies, he was actually pretty incredible. Maul however defeated Jinn quite easily and displayed great skill and athleticism in TPM, so I believe that he would eventually take Fisto. However both fights are in my opinion equally as close so it could go either way but I'm leaning slightly towards the jedi.
Originally posted by tdtd
Because Mace and Yoda were said to be the greatest in centuries, and Dooku was right below Mace, or at best his equal.
So . . . Where in the hell does it say Dooku is right before Mace? That's bullshit considering Dooku was once the most famous Jedi in the Order. Not to mention one of the Galaxies greatest Duelists at that time standing along side Mace and Yoda.
Also, Vodo beat Kun once, does that mean Vodo will beat Kun again? No he was tooled in their 2nd confrontation. We dont know when Dooku bested Mace, for all you know, he could've bested him when Mace was just a Knight, or he may have bested him, during the clone wars, honestly we dont know.What makes you think that Mace wouldn't improve over the time after Dooku beat him?
The question is . . .
What makes you think that Dooku wouldn't improve over time?
Mace was probably still a Master but still couldn't surpass Dooku. Or maybe he was a Knight.
Even so, throughout that time Dooku has learned Experience of the Dark Side and it's sadistic nature of Dueling and hunting down Jedi.
What are the Sith's purposes? To kill, fight and dominate.
And the Jedi's? Everlasting harmony, peace and negotiation without hurting anyone.
When Dooku ventured to the Dark side, he had TEN YEARS where he learned from one of the greatest Sith Lords to utilize the Dark Side of the Force and to give in to his anger.
Dooku was basically now a new version of himself, except twice as powerful.
But during their time away, Mace created Vapaad. This enables him an upper edge like Dooku except Mace cannot fully utilize the form. In order for Vapaad to be fully utilized to a higher extent it must be imbued with the Dark side of the Force by the user. This means the practitioner must act darker . . . Be a Dark Sider . . .
Mace couldn't do that. He could only apply so much Dark Side energy before the Form dominated him like it did with Depa.
Although he still utilizes Vapaad to a mastered extent, you must remember Dooku utilizes Makashi to a mastered extent.
Originally posted by tdtd
Mace was considered THE best duelist in the order and on par with Yoda.. Not Dooku
Wait . . . You said just because the Databank says Dooku bested Mace it couldn't happen again, right?
That the databank isn't quite plausible, right?
Well, the Databank says they are on par. Are you automatically assuming it means they are on par in power? You shouldn't.
It probably means their rank is on par in the order, seeing as they start talking about the Council after that passage on Windu's profile.
Since we cannot properly translate what it says about Dooku besting Mace in his profile, we cannot do that with the "Yoda on par" statement either. Assuming it means same skill is ridiculous. Especially since it's unfounded.
And yes, he was considered one of the best Duelists of his time . . . So was Dooku.
Sorgo, I don't think you understand what Vaapad is, or how it works. It's not using the Dark Side, it's allowing one to utilize basic, primal emotions; things that can lead to the Dark Side, and things that are generally frowned upon by Jedi. Look at Mace and Depa's use of Vaapad, then look at Sora Bulq's. Mace enjoys combat, and the thrill of victory. He uses these instinctive, basic emotions to fuel the rage of Vaapad, and fuel his effectiveness in combat without getting careless and leaving openings. Sora, on the other hand - being of the Dark Side - can't use Vaapad without losing control. Which is why he ends up getting slashed down by someone as comparatively weak as Quinlan. No, a Dark Sider using Vaapad would simply be an out of control, wrathful maniac with far too many openings to be effective in combat.
As to the fight, Mace and Kit take this pretty solidly. Fisto is nearly on the level of Obi-Wan, considering he was a superior combatant to him about a year into the Clone War. And in this environment - which has Kit in his element - Maul and Dooku don't stand a chance.
Originally posted by Faunus
Sorgo, I don't think you understand what Vaapad is, or how it works. It's not using the Dark Side, it's allowing one to utilize basic, primal emotions; things that can lead to the Dark Side, and things that are generally frowned upon by Jedi. Look at Mace and Depa's use of Vaapad, then look at Sora Bulq's. Mace enjoys combat, and the thrill of victory. He uses these instinctive, basic emotions to fuel the rage of Vaapad, and fuel his effectiveness in combat without getting careless and leaving openings. Sora, on the other hand - being of the Dark Side - can't use Vaapad without losing control. Which is why he ends up getting slashed down by someone as comparatively weak as Quinlan. No, a Dark Sider using Vaapad would simply be an out of control, wrathful maniac with far too many openings to be effective in combat.As to the fight, Mace and Kit take this pretty solidly. Fisto is nearly on the level of Obi-Wan, considering he was a superior combatant to him about a year into the Clone War. And in this environment - which has Kit in his element - Maul and Dooku don't stand a chance.
Is that the same comparatively weak Quinlan who would have stabbed Mace if not for a Force push?
Look what happened in the end to Mace, Faunus. The Lightsaber Form proved flawed when Mace confronted Sidious after overpowering him. His "Thrill for Victory" and "Love for battle" got him killed.
The Form has shown flaws. It's been proven by all three of it's mastered practitioners.
Saying different is quite silly.