Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
You know nothing of how Dooku bested Mace so don't start chucking around assumptions. How do you know it was friendly? And how the hell is Dooku a green belt compared to Mace?
How do I know it was friendly, cuz they were SPARRING. In sparring, you're goal isn't to injure your partner. (keyword: partner). Its a workout in which 2 people work together to get better at fighting.
Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
Is that the same comparatively weak Quinlan who would have stabbed Mace if not for a Force push?
In a sparring match that was intended to help Quinlan express what he was feeling, yeah. Had the two been serious, Sorgo, Vos would have been eviscerated. Hell, Mace beat the crap out of Sora Bulq when they confronted eachother, and Bulq was tossing Quinlan around like a ragdoll until the final stroke of their battle.
Look what happened in the end to Mace, Faunus. The Lightsaber Form proved flawed when Mace confronted Sidious after overpowering him. His "Thrill for Victory" and "Love for battle" got him killed.
No, Sorgo. What got him killed was his trust in Anakin. He'd just begun to believe in Skywalker, and he certainly wasn't expecting to have his hand severed by him.
The Form has shown flaws. It's been proven by all three of it's mastered practitioners.Saying different is quite silly.
Every form has imperfections. Shii-Cho is comparatively basic, Djem So is too offensive in certain situations, Soresu is too defensive, and Niman is just. . . blah. Makashi isn't as versatile as any of the forms, although it excels in its focus, and Vaapad - in the wrong hands - can lead one down the path to darkness, as it did with Depa and Sora. But in Mace's hands? In the hands of its creator, and only true master? Practically flawless.
Originally posted by tdtd
Sorgo, just accept the fact that Dooku is below Mace. Otherwise he would have been established as the greatest of the order.
I actually don't think he should, tdtd. I've never, in any of my posts here, stated that Mace is superior to Dooku. I'm simply trying to clear up some misconceptions.
Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
Is that the same comparatively weak Quinlan who would have stabbed Mace if not for a Force push?Look what happened in the end to Mace, Faunus. The Lightsaber Form proved flawed when Mace confronted Sidious after overpowering him. His "Thrill for Victory" and "Love for battle" got him killed.
The Form has shown flaws. It's been proven by all three of it's mastered practitioners.
Saying different is quite silly.
How did Mace's style lead to him dying?
Originally posted by tdtd
Ok but again, Mace was matched only by Yoda in saber combat, and he was the greatest duelist in centuries. What has ever been said about Dooku? At the very least I agree that they COULD be on par though.
I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of the term ''on par.'' It doesn't mean completely equal; Anakin and Obi-Wan can be considered on par with eachother, but potentially, either could win. It's the same situation here. I won't approach the touchy subject of who is decidedly superior, but I will say that no matter the victor, a fight between them would be insane.
No, Sorgo. What got him killed was his trust in Anakin. He'd just begun to believe in Skywalker, and he certainly wasn't expecting to have his hand severed by him.
He believed in him indeed.
This is why he turned down his Mastership and why he thought he lacked the skill to assist him on the Office Arrest.
Mace barely trusted Anakin. And he should have seen it coming.
Every form has imperfections. Shii-Cho is comparatively basic, Djem So is too offensive in certain situations, Soresu is too defensive, and Niman is just. . . blah. Makashi isn't as versatile as any of the forms, although it excels in its focus, and Vaapad - in the wrong hands - can lead one down the path to darkness, as it did with Depa and Sora. But in Mace's hands? In the hands of its creator, and only true master? Practically flawless.
Like it did with Mace. Mace normally would have let Sidious stand trial but wished to murder him instead. Everyone knows that. He let loose. The form was dominating him. Vapaad was pushing him for the Thrill of Victory and he wanted Sidious dead bad.
It ruined Sora, Depa and Mace.
All three of it's practitioners. It's got some bad flaws.
Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
He believed in him indeed.This is why he turned down his Mastership and why he thought he lacked the skill to assist him on the Office Arrest.
Mace barely trusted Anakin. And he should have seen it coming.
''If what you have told me is true, you will have earned my trust.''
And he didn't think that Anakin lacked the skill; he knew that he had conflicted feelings regarding Palpatine.
Like it did with Mace. Mace normally would have let Sidious stand trial but wished to murder him instead. Everyone knows that. He let loose. The form was dominating him. Vapaad was pushing him for the Thrill of Victory and he wanted Sidious dead bad.It ruined Sora, Depa and Mace.
All three of it's practitioners. It's got some bad flaws.
He'd already won. His intention to execute Sidious wasn't due to Vaapad, it was because he knew the Sith still controlled the senate and the courts. And by the Jedi's reputation as of RotS, it was unlikely that a significant number of senators and civilians would support him over Palpatine.
Besides, he was on the defensive the beginning of the fight, until Sidious made a mistake; then he WTFpwned him. If he'd been overtaken by Vaapad like you think he was, he would have gone all ''zOMWTfkeelu!'' earlier on, like Depa did just prior to her fall.
Lastly, even if Mace does become gripped by rage - as you imply - in a Versus match, there isn't going to be a conflicted Skywalker standing by to save his victim's ass.
Originally posted by Faunus
''If what you have told me is true, you will have earned my trust.''And he didn't think that Anakin lacked the skill; he knew that he had conflicted feelings regarding Palpatine.
Then he couldn't be trusted by Mace.
Would you trust someone who is good friends with what is apparently a Sith Lord?
Damn, I could have seen that coming a mile away.
He'd already won. His intention to execute Sidious wasn't due to Vaapad, it was because he knew the Sith still controlled the senate and the courts. And by the Jedi's reputation as of RotS, it was unlikely that a significant number of senators and civilians would support him over Palpatine.
That's not a good enough excuse, Faunus. Mace knew his job wasn't to kill the Sith Lord and Anakin told him it was not the Jedi way, no matter what the circumstance, It just wasn't!
Killing and unarmed prisoner is like . . . Breaching Jedi Code to the maximum.
Besides, he was on the defensive the beginning of the fight, until Sidious made a mistake; then he WTFpwned him. If he'd been overtaken by Vaapad like you think he was, he would have gone all ''zOMWTfkeelu!'' earlier on, like Depa did just prior to her fall.
Vapaad was beginning to take over him. A Vapaad practitioner doesn't have to tweak out while the Form takes over the person.
Lastly, even if Mace does become gripped by rage - as you imply - in a Versus match, there isn't going to be a conflicted Skywalker standing by to save his victim's ass.
I doubt that. Skywalker has proven to be overly powerful when he is angry. But, yeah, Mace using anger to the fullest extent with that Form would probably turn Anakin into Jedi Sushi.
Like I mentioned earlier, him tweaking doesn't need to be a signification of the Form taking over. He wanted an unarmed prisoner dead without trial.
That's ridiculous, to be honest.
Originally posted by tdtd
Vaapad was NOT taking over Mace. Mace KNEW that the only way to effectively get rid of the Sith threat was to kill Palpatine. Leaving him alive was not an option.. It had more to do with logic and less to do with VAAPAD.
No, leaving him alive was THE Jedi Action. Killing an unarmed prisoner under any circumstance is NOT the Jedi Action to administer.
"Jedi RAGE!"
Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
No, leaving him alive was THE Jedi Action. Killing an unarmed prisoner under any circumstance is NOT the Jedi Action to administer.
Sorgo, there was NOT an option to leave him alive. Mace had a choice, kill Palpatine at the moment, ending the war, giving peace and justice to the Galaxy and keep the security of the jedi. Or...... let Palpatine live, possibly getting killed on the way by taking him to the court, and not having a slight chance of getting him under arrest. And still there they would not be able to know what Sidious would do.
As Mace knew, Sidious was not unarmed, he just said, "he's to dangerous to be left alive", he knew deadly force powers. There was simply no other option.
And if Mace got obsessed by anger he would not have such good reasons to kill Sidious, he would just let go of his controll and let the anger controll him instead.
And how come you take one picture of Mace looking mad, and say that he is obsessed by Vaapad. I can take one picture of Anakin happy as a shit lord standing beside Padme at Mustafar and say that Anakin was filled with light and goodness.