Top 10 force users ( Excludes the Ancienth Sith )

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
What don't you get? NIHLIUS CANNOT SEE Revan, Revan isn't on his scale of power. Visas mentions this, something along the lines of he only sees planets and celestial bodies as those are the only things that can sustain him. How can Nihlius defend against something he cannot see? He cannot prepare a defense since he has no idea Revan is even there. Unless as I said you wanna put Revans power along that of the lines of celestial bodies of energy.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

3 things wrong with what you said, As I've pointed out Nihlius cannot see Revan, The masters simply DIDN'T attack Kreia, they had ample time to do so while she gave her little rant, and she had already attacked them, The time is regardless, anyways he still have no indication of how long it takes to shoot off the Force Storm.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Oh really? Is that why he didn't even know his ship was boarded by the Exile, Visas, and multiple Mandalorians and for that matter didn't even care. Is that why he couldn't find Kreia or the Exile or Atris, hell he couldn't even find Vrook, Kavar, Zek, Kreia the Exile his entire party of Jedi all gathered at the SAME spot.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

She is NOT a fallible source for Revan because she PERSONALLY SAW AND TRAINED him therefore she has the right to speak on him. Logic.
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Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

The POINT was you trying to prove that there are ONLY two ways of defending. Which as logic heavily implies that there are more.

You seem to feel the need to reinforce a pointless argument, I NEVER said Revan has a defense I said it was IMPLIED, and he wouldn't need it.
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Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Um no, YOU are the one who doesn't get the force drain, there all the same damn thing its just one is of a MUCH higher magnitude then the other, simple as that, Life force = THE FORCE.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Naad as a spirit was not bound to ANY one place in the galaxy thats why he could move from Yavin to Onderon, to being with Exar one second to being with Ulic and co. the next seconds, by moving through the force. Now, lets apply some logic, A force push on Vodo could be produced from anywhere in the galaxy as long as Vodo can still be felt in the force and as long as Naad is still tied to it.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

I didn't say ALL spirits were unbound, I actually made the point that Naad was one of the exceptions. UNLIKE Exar Kun and many others.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

I don't have to.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Kreia in that sense is a fallible third party source relying on SITH legends HYPING themselves as "TEH GREATEST TANGS EVAR" was Kreia there to witness these "uber 1337 skillz"? No. Is she in a position to declare anything on that time period? No.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

So...whats your point? Its right to a degree, It just doesn't shed light on the fact that as spirit Nadd isn't bound to a single place therefore can move freely in the force as can logically his attacks if he chooses.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

I highly recommend YOU read them as its pretty obvious you haven't and are relying on Wookie as your source. I already have, I know what Im talking about, you don't. And did it ever occur to you that Wookie just as any other FAN SITE can be wrong and shouldn't be used with out their sources cited and picture's to back it up, and a basic level of comprehension(what you lacked in this case)

Originally posted by Kadesh
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Wrong wrong wrong, there is a difference between life drain and a technique which consumes the force. Accept it and move on

what ever anyways i rest my case, go an and argue if you like, i wont argue on till i actually read more about this matter

What part of my arguement do you now get?
firstly nihilus can sense ANY force sensitive, all he needs to do is drain, simple as that. By the way he drains force sensitives, includes jedi, get it in your thick skull

Are you really that stupid? He can sense them by attacking them? He has to SENSE AND ACKNOWLEDGE them to attack.

Who says nihilus cannot sense revan? prove that.

Again, Visas says on the Ravager, that doesn't even know they boarded his ship, that he doesn't see "individuals" they aren't large enough to draw his attention all he willfully sees is planets.

And as i said, for a large scale power it takes mere seconds to summon it, and On a 1 v1 match nihilus drain is far faster

Again Nihilus has to ACKNOWLEDGE THE PRESENSE OF ANTHER TO ATTACK HIM

Prehaps i should tell you that he was aware exile and visas got onto his ship, remember visas saying "He is aware and waiting for us". And why he couldnt find atris? Simply because he was an idiot to believe what kreia said, that they are on telos

Perhaps you have no sense of reading comprehension, and misquotes. She doesn't say "He is aware" your referring to the scene just before you walk go on to fight Nihilus, she does say " Beyond this door is where my Master lies waiting for us." Now, I would leave it at that but knowing you you'll probably interpret that wrong too, she meant he was simply there, not that he was aware of the Exile, since she went out of her way to say he had no clue they were running around his ship, and the fact that he didn't even acknowledge them until they stood 5 feet in front of him.

She also taught nihilus, and stated he knew the greatest technique the sith ever knew and she even stated that he was gifted with it, that it cannot be taught

You do know you just BLATANTLY contradicted yourself there, you just said she taught him, then it cannot be taught. And since when is Kreia the apex of Sith knowledge? Especially since what she inherited was a ripped academy that has already been raided by guess who....Revan.

That is because you assume revan is at a distance which gives him ample time to strike with his lightning, which is apprantly unlikely since he CANNOT sense nihilus as proven when none of the hundred jedi could on katarr.

No one specified any conditions for the duel so I do have the right to assume, and you seem to be under the impression that Revan doesn't have you know EYES why would he need to sense him when he's standing 20ft in front of him like a dumbass. And stop using the "Hindered Jedi on Katarr" we've been through this there were barley a Hindered Jedi left in the galaxy after the Jedi Civil War. To assume that EVERYONE of them were there and they were all masters is completely retarded, but I wouldn't put it past you

Wrong wrong wrong, there is a difference between life drain and a technique which [U]consumes the force. Accept it and move on

So its a life drain now? Life Force = The Force, what did Malak do drain the force and consume it out of the Jedi to replenish himself, what did Exar do, drain the force out of the Massasi and use it to make himself a spirit. LOGIC.

No, you are not applying logic when the ultimate guide and the N.E.C stated that nadd pushed vodo from lightyears away and even the comic book featured nadd doing it.

Did I ever refute that he was actually light years away in a general sense, but and yet he wasn't since he is apart of the raw force and as you know(or you probably don't) the force is EVERYWHERE. making he have the ability to willfully move throughout the force or logically send attacks through it, just as Vader was able to choke guards from Lightyears away, ITS TEH FORCE.

You claimed "spirits are not bound to any place", you didnt give nadd the acception
Learn to read.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

No, they are not. As a spirit Naad was not bound to any one place in the galaxy,

Learn to read.

That is because you cant

No because I don't have to.

No, but she has no reason to lie since she is a historian. Give me a reason to why she lied

Did I ever say she lied? No, can she and is she wrong? Yes. She was simply misinformed, the only logical way she could have known about this is from Sith legends which would as anything in history inevitable does get embellished, exaggerated, and lost in translation. Now, as for the actual quote how in the fyke would they be better in a time when Lightsabers had JUST been invented and they still used the stupid battery packs with cords that limited mobility. Its logically RIDICULES to assume that with thousands of years of improvement they would be worse then their predecessors. However maybe she was referring to their trinkets and Sith toys that do make them strong however its not THEIR power.

You have yet to actually prove nadd moved to vodos ship and attacked him, crado and sylvia BOTH would have known if nadd had did that, Try again

*sigh*

Actually i have, what makes you think you are any better than the people who respect canon policy and maintain wookie? Yes somethings may be wrong in wookie but can it be wrong if we are actually proven with the comic itself?

I'm not debating wookiepedia's authenticity since e I do use it, and I never said it was wrong it just didn't FULLY explain the situation, since it was a you know SUMMARY.

Originally posted by Kadesh
No, you are not applying logic when the ultimate guide and the N.E.C stated that nadd pushed vodo from lightyears away and even the comic book featured nadd doing it.

While I'd argue, and agree for that matter, that Nadd did lash out against Vodo from halfway across the galaxy, there's no need to lie, Kadesh. I have the New Essential Chronology, and it makes no mention of Nadd tooling Vodo at all, in fact.

Just for future reference, it's fairly obvious he floors Vodo while still remaining on Korriban:

If you notice in the panel above where Vodo is pushed, Nadd is still on Korriban as indicated by Exar's crushed body, and immediately after he gives a little spiel, Nadd tools him. In addition, they are communicating whilst lightyears away due to Vodo's meditation (so it's not far fetched to say he can cause harm while at that length away), and it's more than likely that's why he was able to do the aforementioned at such a great distance (the connection, not that he'd be able to do that at his every will). Plus, there's really no reason to assume that he magically appears and reappears without showing it, even less when you consider Nadd is always shown to be talking via Korriban.

I should also note that Nadd hasn't displayed (or has said to have done) anything on-panel to be that impressive, at least not to compare to the likes of Revan, Bane, Exar, etc. He doesn't necessarily deserve a top five spot.

Yes im aware that his ship is capable to blow up a star. But so? It was SHOWN that he did it with his amulet. And isnt the crystals on the amulet similar to that of his ship?

So? So, that means that Naga Sadow minus his ship cannot do the same feat. Naga's ship, in the NEC, is described as having a weapon that destroys star.

"Crado then teamed with Aleema to execute a military strike using Naga Sadow's Sith flagship. Armed with the vessel's star-destroying weapon, they intended to destroy the suns of the Cron Cluster, not realizing that their Masters had set them up for a fall."

-- New Essential Chronology, The Sith War, pg. 19.

And really, you do realize that the spineless worm, Crado, and subpar sorceress, Aleema, managed to destroy the entire group of suns by making them go supernova (which caused a chain reaction that killed them). It's quite obvious that the amulets didn't have much to do with it, as neither Aleema nor Crado were in possession of such objects.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Are you really that stupid? He can sense them by attacking them? He has to [B]SENSE AND ACKNOWLEDGE them to attack.
[/B]

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Again, Visas says on the Ravager, that doesn't even know they boarded his ship, that he doesn't see "individuals" they aren't large enough to draw his attention all he willfully sees is planets.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Again Nihilus has to [B]ACKNOWLEDGE THE PRESENSE OF ANTHER TO ATTACK HIM
[/B]

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Perhaps you have no sense of reading comprehension, and misquotes. She doesn't say "He is aware" your referring to the scene just before you walk go on to fight Nihilus, she does say " Beyond this door is where my Master lies waiting for us." Now, I would leave it at that but knowing you you'll probably interpret that wrong too, she meant he was simply there, not that he was aware of the Exile, since she went out of her way to say he had no clue they were running around his ship, and the fact that he didn't even acknowl edge them until they stood 5 feet in front of him.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

You do know you just BLATANTLY contradicted yourself there, you just said she taught him, then it cannot be taught. And since when is Kreia the apex of Sith knowledge? Especially since what she inherited was a ripped academy that has already been raided by guess who....Revan.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

No one specified any conditions for the duel so I do have the right to assume, and you seem to be under the impression that Revan doesn't have you know [B]EYES why would he need to sense him when he's standing 20ft in front of him like a dumbass. And stop using the "Hindered Jedi on Katarr" we've been through this there were barley a Hindered Jedi left in the galaxy after the Jedi Civil War. To assume that EVERYONE of them were there and they were all masters is completely retarded, but I wouldn't put it past you
[/B]

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

So its a life drain now? Life Force = The Force, what did Malak do drain the force and consume it out of the Jedi to replenish himself, what did Exar do, drain the force out of the Massasi and use it to make himself a spirit. LOGIC.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Did I ever refute that he was actually light years away in a general sense, but and yet he wasn't since he is apart of the raw force and as you know(or you probably don't) the force is EVERYWHERE. making he have the ability to willfully move throughout the force or logically send attacks through it, just as Vader was able to choke guards from Lightyears away, ITS TEH FORCE..

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Did I ever say she lied? No, can she and is she wrong? Yes. She was simply misinformed, the only logical way she could have known about this is from Sith legends which would as anything in history inevitable does get embellished, exaggerated, and lost in translation. Now, as for the actual quote how in the fyke would they be better in a time when Lightsabers had JUST been invented and they still used the stupid battery packs with cords that limited mobility. Its logically RIDICULES to assume that with thousands of years of improvement they would be worse then their predecessors. However maybe she was referring to their trinkets and Sith toys that do make them strong however its not THEIR power.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

I'm not debating wookiepedia's authenticity since e I do use it, and I never said it was wrong it just didn't FULLY explain the situation, since it was a you know SUMMARY.

Read advents post, SHE PROVED that nadd attacked vodo lightyears away

No he does not, then do you think he knew who the fu*k he drained on katarr? hell no so shut the hell up ok?

Your beginning to bore me...Thats not the point, I didn't mean acknowledge them in the sense in that he sees and knows who they are, I meant that he acknowledges that there is actually anther sentient being standing in front of him. I thought I made this fairly clear, but again its you I'm talking to some kid with the mental capacity of 3 year old.

Then she must be contradicting herselves, ESPECIALLY when she stated that he knew they were on his ship

Firstly he would already know if hes a force sensitive, secondly he doesnt care who he is ****ing up

First that sense made no sense, second I never said he has to acknowledge the persons identity just that they are there.

Bull shit, She said he is aware when we were on the level below the bridge, some where when we were near tobin i think

No she did, the fact that you add "I think" in proves it. Tobin too even says he doesn't know that the ship has been boarded.

i said kreia taught nihilus in the ways of the dark side, I DID NOT SAY SHE TAUGHT HIM THE TECHNIQUE learn to read, and DO NOT feed me with words

[I

]"She also taught nihilus, and stated he knew the greatest technique the sith ever knew and she even stated that he was gifted with it, that it cannot be taught"[/

That implies that she taught him it and you contradicted yourself. This is laughable you can't even understand your OWN writing how can expect you to comprehend mine.

yes and this is the point you get yourself destroyed in this arguement, good, 20 ft am i correct? then kiss revans ass good bye because the massive drain is faster than his storm lightning

Sure little guy, And how is he gonna stop the force storm when he doesn't even realize Revan is in the same room with him and when he does, by the build up of such powerful force energy he'd be dead.

did i not say i rest my case on this one? learn to read

Its only witty and cute when your NOT an absolute retard.

Regardless, he still attacked vodo from lightyears away. And i hell am aware that the force is every where, You claimed that nadd went into this ship, you contradicted yourself, you claim that nadd DID NOT attack vodo from lightyears away and now you are saying something else

No, I didn't none of my post make any mention of Nadd entering Vodo's ship maybe you've deluded yourself into believing that? But its not the truth simple re read my arguments. I never said he didn't attack Vodo from lightyears away

No, they are not. As a spirit Naad was not bound to any one place in the galaxy, therefore he when he pushed Vodo it was as if he was right in front of him,

See kiddo thats what I said. Maybe one day when you grow up little guy you'll be able to understand grown folks talk.

Lost in translation? idiot there is something called the jedi archives whih DO NOT LIE. Then tell me, how the fu*k did kreia get to know about the ancient sith? And did you forget her quote, "the true masters of dueling were the ancients"? Again what the hell makes her wrong, I'm waiting.

The Jedi Archives dont lie? You do know that the Archives of that time is nothing more then a VERY large library of information collected of what may be wrong information about the Sith. Because as we know the JEDI are the experts of the SITH./sarcasm.

Again so what, the JEDI archives mean nothing especially since they were plundered and destroyed mostly by Kun, then we have stories being told orally. And again what do you think is in the ARCHIVES? Books, scrolls, and legends that if they are of SIth origin are most likely hyped and exaggerated feats involving the use of there amulets, ships and other toys.

I've already gone through as to why the dueling is bullshit, in the post you quoted, and your quote is wrong she NEVER says that.

Read advents post, SHE PROVED that nadd attacked vodo lightyears away

Again did I ever say he didn't? Due to the mental link established and the fact that Nadd is a spirit not bound to any place allowed him to do it.

And your still a retard.

ok, i got ur PM, anyways i just find it hard sometimes to understand peoples post and i look at it the wrong way. Anyways sry if i kept repeating like a parrot

Heres my list...

1. Lotf Luke
2. DE SIdeous
3. Yoda
4. Darth Revan
5. Darth Bane
6. Exar Kun
7. Mace/Dooku/Anakin/Malak
8. Mace/Dooku/Anakin/malak
9. Mace/Dooku/Malak/Anakin
10. *Insert random ancient Sith here*

EDIT: I posted this before I saw your message

So? yes he needs to know the guy is there and do you think he is blind if revan stands 20ft infront of him?

Uh yeah thats what I've been getting at, Nihilus CANNOT willfully see beings unless they are standing right in his face withing clear speaking distance. This was stated multiple times by Visas, Tobin and Kreia, he doesn't comprehend or see the world as a normal Jedi/Sith would on celestial bodies are large enough for him to see, without it being smack dab in his face.

Thats when you assume that nihilus DOES NOT KNOW revan is there which is NOT the case

Except he wont....

Doesnt change the fact you are a b!tch

Lol

i would love to see you prove that they are hyperboles

I didn't say the Archives were themselves completely full of bullshit, its just the information on the SITH may contain misinformation and hyperbola considering the nature of the feats people like Naga Sadow were letting out. So for example the Archives might say

"Naga Sadow himself blew up stars and had terrible power."

When in actuality it was his trinkets and ships that did it for him, and since there are no one to actually refute the Archived version the archived version becomes fact. You get?

But she did say "if we were to face an ancient sith in combat, we would be as children playing with toys"

Her opinion. especially considering she hadn't seen Revan in nearly 15 years, and Sion and Nihlius even Malak are definitely on par, its just her underestimating herself based on misinformation. But who really cares, she is still a third party fallible source relying on hear say.

EDITED

anyways im dropping this

Sith:
1. Darth Sidious.
2. Darth Nihilus.
3. Darth Bane.
4. Exar Kun.
5. Marka Ragnos.
6. Naga Sadow.
7. Darth Traya.
8. Darth Sion.
9. Lord Simus.
10. Ludo Kressh.

Jedi:
1. Luke Skywalker.
2. Jacen Solo.
3. Revan/Kyp Durron.
4. " " ".
5. Lord Hoth.
6. The Jedi Exile.
7. Yoda.
8. Ulic Quel-Droma.
9. Nomi Sunrider.
10. Mace Windu.

Sith:
1. Darth Sidious.
2. Darth Nihilus.
3. Darth Bane.
4. Exar Kun.
5. Marka Ragnos.
6. Naga Sadow.
7. Darth Traya.
8. Darth Sion.
9. Lord Simus.
10. Ludo Kressh.

Why is Traya ranked higher than Simus? Simus combated Ragnos for mantle of the Dark Lord of the Sith, and he survived as a head, and trained Naga Sadow. Traya even said that the Ancient Sith made most of their era look pathetic, so I don't know why she'd be ranked higher than him. Kressh and Sadow, by the way, are equals, correct?

Jedi:
1. Luke Skywalker.
2. Jacen Solo.
3. Revan/Kyp Durron.
4. " " ".
5. Lord Hoth.
6. The Jedi Exile.
7. Yoda.
8. Ulic Quel-Droma.
9. Nomi Sunrider.
10. Mace Windu.

Why is Revan ranked on par with Kyp, and why is Yoda ranked beneath the Exile and Hoth? KotoR bias run rampant? Yoda was the strongest Jedi prior to Luke - the Exile hasn't done shit in comparison to him and Hoth doesn't measure up, either.

Originally posted by Gideon
Why is Traya ranked higher than Simus? Simus combated Ragnos for mantle of the Dark Lord of the Sith, and he survived as a head, and trained Naga Sadow. Traya even said that the Ancient Sith made most of their era look pathetic, so I don't know why she'd be ranked higher than him. Kressh and Sadow, by the way, are equals, correct?

Traya isn't infallible, we need to see more from Simus imo to put him above Traya, who has proven to be a somewhat force titan. And it's pretty clear Kressh is far from Sadow's equal.

Why is Revan ranked on par with Kyp,

His feats, such as wiping out an army of Rakatans and Rancors with force lightning.

and why is Yoda ranked beneath the Exile and Hoth? KotoR bias run rampant? Yoda was the strongest Jedi prior to Luke - the Exile hasn't done shit in comparison to him and Hoth doesn't measure up, either.

The Exile has a nice number of defeats under her belt, and Hoth was able to own sith like they were children, read PoD, he was godly in combat.

Who excatly was he able to "own" the losers who were cannon fodder, the bums who people like DAROVIT could kill. Oh yeah big tough guy there. And anyways pretty much EVERYONE from that era were jokes save for about 5 people.

And anyways pretty much EVERYONE from that era were jokes save for about 5 people.

How so?

Who excatly was he able to "own" the losers who were cannon fodder, the bums who people like DAROVIT could kill.

The same Darovit that resisted the thought bomb, while in range.

Originally posted by Captain Planet
How so?

The same Darovit that resisted the thought bomb, while in range.

How so? The Sith that saw battle were cannon fodder that could be killed by a child swinging his saber like a monkey, The Dark Lords which were promoted not by their skill but to fill numbers against the Jedi, and some of the students had only been training for months( Bane, Githany) they didn't even use lightsabers while training, and Revan alone had more knowledge of the Dark Side then their entire archives. Jokes.

The same Darovit that wasn't a force user. The same Thought Bomb that doens't affect non force sensitives. Hence his parading around like a retard complaining why he DIDN'T get killed.

Recall there wasn't a single Dark Lord at that battle: Meaning No Sith.

Lol acstyles havnt seen you in a while

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Recall there wasn't a single Dark Lord at that battle: Meaning No Sith.

Was that too me? If so I said, any battle not the Battle of Ruusan # such and such.