Top 10 force users ( Excludes the Ancienth Sith )

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

More knowledge=more power, in most cases.

Oh golly gosh, I didn't know 1 force ability equates to overall power. I suppose then Revan>ALL because he knew the thought bomb and could use it to trap Jedi and Sith. You can have whatever hierarchy you want, but the fact is Revan>Nihilus.

revan > nihilus overall i would agree but remember that nihilus has a huge advantage, the drain though revan is superior to nihilus

Well that's why I said in most cases. The exceptions would be the quality of knowledge and the raw force abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Because it's canon you dolt, whether it was a poorly conceived plot device. Nobody cares about opinions here, otherwise there would be no point in logical debates. Canon=facts.

More knowledge=more power, in most cases.

Is that why the technique derived from the ancient sith? Is that why Sidious used a similar technique on Byss?

Oh golly gosh, I didn't know 1 force ability equates to overall power. I suppose then Revan>ALL because he knew the thought bomb and could use it to trap Jedi and Sith. You can have whatever hierarchy you want, but the fact is Revan>Nihilus.

It's not 'canon' it's fiction as is evident by the fact that we have retcons. You've missed my point, again. Pointless.

More knowledge = more knowledge, nothing more. I could be an encyclopedia, doesn't mean I can't get my ass kicked (see, Dooku-Anakin, Palpy - Luke, Exar Kun - Luke, Exile - Kreia, Jaden Korr - Tavion, Kyle Katarn - Jerec etc etc. Your raw ability with the force is not dependant on your knowledge - just talent and the gonards to get the job done.

In any case (whether or not Knowledge equates to power), having knowledge by itself is not a 'feat'.

Is that why I said the technique was unique to Nihilus in its effect? Nihilus is the only Sith Lord to streep the force out of a planet and use the dispersed energy to sustain himself (therby killing its life). He is the only Sith Lord who's had his very connection to the dark side of the force, continually feed on his own life.

The technique was unique to Nihilus in its effects (note: the word effects).

Sidious siphoned force energy by drawing small amounts of the force from the inhabitants of Byss, Nihilus needed the energy drawn from the severing of a persons life from the force, similar but different. Nihilus drew life energy itself and created psionic bonds with people's life energies that's why the officers under his control were zombies.

Revan possessed knowledge of the thought bomb doesn't mean he used it, and even if he did, it's power is not on a planetary scale like Nihilus' drain. Again Nihilus has planet ending power, Revan doesn't which means Nihilus is more powerful in the force.

Again, knowledge doesn't equal a feat. It's easy to write about a characters attributes but it is more difficult to give any signifcance to those attributes. If knowledge is such an amazing feat, why don't I see Yoda at no. 1? Afterall didn't he have about 800 years worth of knowledge in the force?

Originally posted by Allankles
It's not 'canon' it's fiction as is evident by the fact that we have retcons. You've missed my point, again. Pointless.

More knowledge = more knowledge, nothing more. I could be an encyclopedia, doesn't mean I can't get my ass kicked (see, Dooku-Anakin, Palpy - Luke, Exar Kun - Luke, Exile - Kreia, Jaden Korr - Tavion, Kyle Katarn - Jerec etc etc. Your raw ability with the force is not dependant on your knowledge - just talent and the gonards to get the job done.

In any case (whether or not Knowledge equates to power), having knowledge by itself is not a 'feat'.

Is that why I said the technique was unique to Nihilus in its effect? Nihilus is the only Sith Lord to streep the force out of a planet and use the dispersed energy to sustain himself (therby killing its life). He is the only Sith Lord who's had his very connection to the dark side of the force, continually feed on his own life.

Sidious siphoned force energy by drawing small amounts of the force from the inhabitants of Byss, Nihilus needed the energy drawn from the severing of a persons life from the force, similar but different. Nihilus drew life energy itself and created psionic bonds with people's life energies that's why the officers under his control were zombies.

Revan possessed knowledge of the thought bomb doesn't mean he used it, and even if he did, it's power is not on a planetary scale like Nihilus' drain. Again Nihilus has planet ending power, Revan doesn't which means Nihilus is more powerful in the force.

Again, knowledge doesn't equal a feat. It's easy to write about a characters attributes but it is more difficult to give any signifcance to those attributes. If knowledge is such an amazing feat, why don't I see Yoda at no. 1? Afterall didn't he have about 800 years worth of knowledge in the force? [/B]

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No no, it's retconned therefore it's CANON, so you make no point again.

What is your point exactly?

You want to get technical? OK. More Knowledge+quality of Knowledge=POWER. Revan's knowledge and quality of knowledge exceeded Nihilus' one feat.

No, Sidious did the same thing to Byss. Nihilus did it because he's a wound in the force. And for his so called abilities, he was pwned by the Exile.

They're force drains, except Sidious did it as a spirit.

That's what it means? Wow your logical deduction is off by a mile. How about the fact that Bane needed himself and the entire Brotherhood to perform a force storm, while Revan could do that on his own?

Because there's also quality of knowledge, raw force abilities, and potential.

Ok, this has gone on long enough. There's no such thing as 'canon' in a fictional franchise, where the published works are written by persons with no rights to said franchise. So spare me the trouble of replying to another - no it's 'canon' argument.

It can be retconned - which is enough evidence for you to know that 'canon' doesn't hold too much water in EU. Regardless, this isn't the point of contention.

They're force drains? Who said they weren't?

No, Sidious didn't do the same thing to Byss, otherwise he would have killed the inhabitants of that planet. Nihilus severs the persons connection to the force and then feeds on the released energy, Sidious merely siphoned the Byssians force energies (no - severing force connections). Tell me again how this argument is essential to the debate at hand?

How about you tell me when Revan used a thought bomb? Exactly, stick to the 'feats' and accomplishments, not supposed knowledge over useless technique 34c.

Originally posted by Allankles
Ok, this has gone on long enough. There's no such thing as 'canon' in a fictional franchise, where the published works are written by persons with no rights to said franchise. So spare me the trouble of replying to another - no it's 'canon' argument.

It can be retconned - which is enough evidence for you to know that 'canon' doesn't hold too much water in EU. Regardless, this isn't the point of contention.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What are you retarded? You're basically trying to disprove the existence of the Star Wars Universe, and George Lucas. There is no more need to debate with you when this is your argument, it's embarassing.

Canon is canon, the end.

Retarded, the irony? Did you even get my point? Canon is not a word used in fiction, and even if you choose to use it, only GL (as a person with the rights to the franchise) can publish works beyond retconning. Anyone else that gets their works published by LA can have their stories retconned. As was made evident by POD's retconning of Jedi vs Sith and BOTS.

Originally posted by Allankles
Retarded, the irony? Did you even get my point? Canon is not a word used in fiction, and even if you choose to use it, only GL (as a person with the rights to the franchise) can publish works beyond retconning. Anyone else that gets their works published by LA can have their stories retconned. As was made evident by POD's retconning of Jedi vs Sith and BOTS.

Good god, you know nothing about the EU, Lucasfilm, Leeland Chee, or canon. Stop debating until you understand simple conceps.

Allankles, if the concept of "what is canon" and "what is a retcon" is beyond you, I can get Ushgarak or someone here to explain it. Revan's involvement with Bane's Rule of Two is now a canon fact, period. You disagreeing or refusing to believe it doesn't change that fact at all. Bane implemented it and perfected it, but if Revan's holocron hadn't been in Bane's possession - it likely would have never occured.

I hate Revan, but seriously, you're being a pain in the ass, and you make me want to actually defend him.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Good god, you know nothing about the EU, Lucasfilm, Leeland Chee, or canon. Stop debating until you understand simple conceps.

Start debating when you learn how to address the key points of an argument. Pointing out irrelevant details does not a good argument make. And I know about Leeland Chee (he's only the LA licensed continuity organizer, he's got nothing to do with this debate).

You my friend have failed to recognize many of the points I have made in this debate.

Originally posted by Gideon
Allankles, if the concept of "what is canon" and "what is a retcon" is beyond you, I can get Ushgarak or someone here to explain it. Revan's involvement with Bane's Rule of Two is now a [B]canon fact, period. You disagreeing or refusing to believe it doesn't change that fact at all. Bane implemented it and perfected it, but if Revan's holocron hadn't been in Bane's possession - it likely would have never occured.

I hate Revan, but seriously, you're being a pain in the ass, and you make me want to actually defend him. [/B]

I wasn't trying to disprove the 'canonicity' of the above event (I made that clear not too many posts ago), I was debating it's value as a Revan feat given its role in the POD story.

And I quite clearly pointed out that its importance didn't extend beyond its role as a cheaply conceived plot device - given the manner in which it was presented. It's not my fault Karshypyn (sp) is an average story writer. Besides that, it's not what I'd call a feat nor an achievement, merely a character attribute.

Originally posted by Allankles
I wasn't trying to disprove the 'canonicity' of the above event (I made that clear not too many posts ago), I was debating it's value as a Revan feat given its role in the POD story.

And I quite clearly pointed out that its importance didn't extend beyond its role as a cheaply conceived plot device - given the manner in which it was presented. It's not my fault Karshypyn (sp) is an average story writer. Besides that, it's not what I'd call a feat nor an achievement, merely a character attribute. [/B]

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except for the fact that POD and now Revan's contribution to the rule of two is considered canon.

Nobody cares about your opinion on the writer and the story, that's where your debate fails. You're sitting and bitching about Revan and how you aren't satisfied with him getting the recognition he is getting, but canon is canon.

I'm not bitching about the recognition he's getting, who's he getting recognition from? The story? Karshypyn (sp)? Or the fans?

And it's not merely an opinion, it's an observation of the context and the importance of the event in relation to that context.

My opinion is irrelevant here, I'm just pointing out the fact that your boys presence in the book is done with a clear disregard for context, devaluing whatever importance the event is supposed to have i.e. it lacks gravity in it's hollow representation.

What does my opinion have to do with Karshypyn's half-baked plot device?

And why are you evading the argument that it's not a feat, nor an accomplishment, to begin with?

My opinion is irrelevant here, I'm just pointing out the fact that your boys presence in the book is done with a clear disregard for context, devaluing whatever importance the event is supposed to have i.e. it lacks gravity in it's hollow representation.

What does my opinion have to do with Karshypyn's half-baked plot device?

And why are you evading the argument that it's not a feat, nor an accomplishment, to begin with? [/B]

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

THAT is your opinion.. Duh

Where is the argument?
Guess what smartass, the author had to get approval from Lucas or other sources. You seem to think that they all write anything they want whenever they want, not having to worry about G-Canon and C-Canon info.

No, it's not. It's an observation, albeit from one point of view but an observation nevertheless. I'm talking about the function of the event in the plot, not my opinion of the plot.

The argument. Or does making a holocron = a feat and/or an awe inspiring accomplishment, now?

Originally posted by Allankles
No, it's not. It's an observation, albeit from one point of view but an observation nevertheless. I'm talking about the function of the event in the plot, not my opinion of the plot.

The argument. Or does making a holocron = a feat and/or an awe inspiring accomplishment, now?

- It served as an inspiration of Rule of Two.
- It contained very advanced Sith Knowledge including secret of "Thought Bomb" technique.

Now both these things played a major part in re-shaping of Bane's future plans and actions.

- Implementation of Rule of Two changed the ways of Sith.
- Thought Bomb was used to eliminate the major threats to Bane.

Thus Revan's holocron played an important role in Bane's story. And this is now canon.

So learn to accept canon materials regarding Star Wars.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan's holocron proved to be important for Bane in two major ways:

- It served as an inspiration of Rule of Two.
- It contained very advanced Sith Knowledge including secret of "Thought Bomb" technique.

Now both these things played a major part in re-shaping of Bane's future plans and actions.

- Implementation of Rule of Two changed the ways of Sith.
- Thought Bomb was used to eliminate the major threats to Bane.

Thus Revan's holocron played an important role in Bane's story. And this is now canon.

So learn to accept canon materials regarding Star Wars.

PWNED 😉

PWNED? I don't think so. Making a holocron in no way makes a person better than an average Jedi Master. Look at Bodo Baas if you don't believe me. The holocron may prove important later, but the act of making one in no way makes a person powerful.

except for the fact that we have more than enough evidence to suggest Revan was uber powerful.

A holocron is nothing but a device that holds knowledge. The creation of such a device doesn't constitute a feat. And you don't have to be uber powerful to possess great knowledge.

Self-pawned again SW_LEGEND i.e. posting arguments that completely miss the point (the point here being designing a holocron doesn't = awe inspiring feat).

There've been many Sith/Jedi with plenty of knowledge in the force, but that doesn't make them uber powerful in any way.