Originally posted by allfgActually you are the liar dumb ass, You just cant seem to accept the fact that vader has done these things,
I just asked someone who has played EAW whether what you're saying is true, and apparently, you're lying.
Originally posted by allfgUm and when the ancient sith saluted vader? He didnt accomplish much, and the ancient sith salute very powerful sith lords, like revan for example
Who isn't? Should the other countless no named jedi who were also said to be great force users be considered relatively powerful in comparison to the powerhouses too?
Originally posted by allfgyou indirect;y said this m,any times fool
I'm one of the few people who actually disagrees with the whole lightning argument, so get your facts straight.
Originally posted by allfgAnd its up to you since you deny it . i only want to hand you the evidence which you refuse to read, i simply dont have to debate with a dumbass, 1) i dont feel like it 2) the facts are in the sources i mentioned, now get lost sockaholic
Quit with the needless insults dude, and learn how to debate. Just telling someone to read this and that doesn't quite cut it; it's up to you to provide your own prove, it's on you.
Coming from you? AC pwned you, bad, and you're in complete denial about it. You even somewhat implied that there was somewhat pwnage on your part; there wasn't. You got owned, bad, and while I can admit that I may have got beaten a few times by him, I never got beaten anywhere near as badly as he owned you, and I never used to cheer lead every one of his posts like a woman before so. So unlucky, but you lose.
Go. Home.
Originally posted by allfg
Coming from you? AC pwned you, bad, and you're in complete denial about it. You even somewhat implied that there was somewhat pwnage on your part; there wasn't. You got owned, bad, and while I can admit that I may have got beaten a few times by him, I never got beaten anywhere near as badly as he owned you, and I never used to cheer lead every one of his posts like a woman before so. So unlucky, but you lose.
Go. Home.
Aww that's so cute, you have to use somebody else for your argument, someone that got pwned and acknowledged it, but hey it's your "reality" boo. See the thing is, some of the people on this forum CAN debate so I can easily appeal to the majority and call you an imbecile who doesn't know the first thing about debating, OR reality. You've been owned in every single argument you've ever been in, and you've negated that with denial and probably lots of pills. Sad kid.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes, and by the creation of POD, we now know who created the Rule of Two, so your point is moot and I rest my case.Revan's presence in POD is the MOST relevant, and judging by the stupidity of your statement, your hatred of Revan is obvious. Once again, his presence is the MOST significant event in POD..
We don't have to see Revan do shit, we have descriptions of him which are canon sourcse. Revan's military genius is canon, end of story.
Except Canderous admitted that Revan was the only one in the galaxy strong enough and smart enough to defeat them, try again.
That's as stupid as saying Guy X is more powerful than Guy Y because he mastered a technique better than Guy Y. Nihilus had no other known abilities besides his force drain. Not to mention his drain was amplified by him being a wound in the force. There is little doubt that Revan's overall force abilities and command of the force are superior to Nihilus.
Yea the special condition of being a wound in the force.
Your arguments are so ridiculous, your dislike of Revan is not even a question.
His presence (specifically) is the most significant event in POD? How's that? You could have thrown in any other name (Sadow, Palp's grandpa) and it wouldn't have made the slightest difference. You should say that Revan's name was thrown in one of the most significant events in the book.
The events significance is not dependent on Revan's name being there, but on Bane's involvement in the event. So I'll say it once again, Revan's presence in POD is absolutely irrelevant to the legacy of Bane.
Maybe if the author had created parallels between Bane and Revan's life then their might have been a greater significance to Revan's presence in the book beyond being a cheaply conceived story device.
Face facts, Revan being in POD is absolutely irrelevant to Bane the character.
How do people measure command in the force? By feats. As the force is not a quantifiable entity. Nihilus was quite clearly portrayed as a character who's powers were nearing nigh-omnipotence if not stopped sooner rather than later.
It's quite clearly stated that as his power grows so do his perceptions, it is quite clearly potrayed that only a fellow wound in the force could stop him. When was Revan ever potrayed as being on the same scale of power? And Nihilus hunger isn't merely a technique, it's a potrayal of his strength in the dark side. Nihilus is stronger than Revan ever was in the dark side - quite clearly.
And I hate Revan? Simply because I don't over inflate his relevance in the mythos or (as per the list) his greatness? I'm no fan, but I hardly see the need to hate on a character that's largely potrayed in a stale cookie cutter fashion - giving us little chance to be drawn to the character emotionally (positively or negatively).
He doesn't have enough character depth for me to despise him.
Originally posted by Allankles
His presence (specifically) is the most significant event in POD? How's that? You could have thrown in any other name (Sadow, Palp's grandpa) and it wouldn't have made the slightest difference. You should say that Revan's name was thrown in one of the most significant events in the book.
The events significance is not dependent on Revan's name being there, but on Bane's involvement in the event. So I'll say it once again, Revan's presence in POD is absolutely irrelevant to the legacy of Bane.
Maybe if the author had created parallels between Bane and Revan's life then their might have been a greater significance to Revan's presence in the book beyond being a cheaply conceived story device.
Face facts, Revan being in POD is absolutely irrelevant to Bane the character.
How do people measure command in the force? By feats. As the force is not a quantifiable entity. Nihilus was quite clearly portrayed as a character who's powers were nearing nigh-omnipotence if not stopped sooner rather than later.
It's quite clearly stated that as his power grows so do his perceptions, it is quite clearly potrayed that only a fellow wound in the force could stop him. When was Revan ever potrayed as being on the same scale of power? And Nihilus hunger isn't merely a technique, it's a potrayal of his strength in the dark side. Nihilus is stronger than Revan ever was in the dark side - quite clearly.
And I hate Revan? Simply because I don't over inflate his relevance in the mythos or (as per the list) his greatness? I'm no fan, but I hardly see the need to hate on a character that's largely potrayed in a stale cookie cutter fashion - giving us little chance to be drawn to the character emotionally (positively or negatively).
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh, I suppose you missed the entire part where Bane gets Revan's holocrons, and Revan's knowledge and power influence Bane to reshape the sith that will eventually destroy the Jedi order. You're right, his presence, or his "name", WERENT significant.Yea you're right, that is of course if you take Revan and his holocron out, then Bane has no idea what to do with the sith, and he has to revert back to the writings of the ancient sith on Korriban. BTW I forgot to point out Revan's holocron surpassed all the writings he saw.
Maybe if you get your head out of your ass and stop arguing subjectively, you'd be able to construct logical arguments.
no
Feats. text. quotes, etc. Nihilus had one sole power, wonderful. Sidious had force storms and instakills, so his power WAS quantifiable.
The question is, when was Nihilus ever on par with Revan in power? I'll give you a hint. Never. Because he has one power in his arsenal, he's superior to Revan? That's like saying guy X can force choke guy Y because he's a master of the force choke. If guy Y is more powerful in the force, Guy Y will have a defense for Guy X. Not saying Revan has one, but Revan knew ancient sith techniques and his power surpassed Nihilus.
No, it's quite obvious with the argument you threw out, that you dislike the character and your attempts to discredit him are futile.
Can you stop being a dopey fanboy for one second and UNDERSTAND? That whole scenario you've just pointed out is the authors construction, and as such it is a device (albeit an unecessary one) used here to solve the plot.
Revan's presence in this instance is absolutely irrelevant to Bane's legacy (notice the word absolutely), mainly because the story device isn't necessary in solving the plot here and also because only Bane will carry the plot - as it's his story. In other words the plot doesn't depend or revolve around Revan's appearance in the pages of POD.
All that POD needs for it to work, is Bane's character and the devices the author chooses as solutions to the plot he wants written - Revan was one such device and a cheaply conceived one at that: highlighting the average reading level of the book.
You seem to be having great difficulty understanding my point here.
Where does it become a necessity to have a character (Revan) 2000 years removed from the event, become the author of the rule-of-two? Especially when said character never practiced it in his short time as a Sith Lord?
How is this plausible? And even if we throw plausibility out the window, what difference does it make to have Revan's name here? Because any dead Sith Lord would have sufficed given the lack of connection between the two characters.
Nihilus had one power huh? How about the instance where he slams Kreia with TK, or the time he stuns The Exile, Mandalore and Visas; or how about the time he seemingly suffocates Visas in his intro? Until Revan shows power on the scale that Nihilus has I'm of the opinion that Nihilus was more powerful than Revan in the force (especially the dark side).
And I really don't care for your impassioned plea 🙄 against my apparent bias. My opinion is what it is, you don't like it fine, but please don't make this out to be some sought of attempt at character assasination on my part - I just don't see what the hype is all about.
Originally posted by Allankles
Can you stop being a dopey fanboy for one second and UNDERSTAND? That whole scenario you've just pointed out is the authors construction, and as such it is a device (albeit an unecessary one) used here to solve the plot.
Revan's presence in this instance is absolutely irrelevant to Bane's legacy (notice the word absolutely), mainly because the story device isn't necessary in solving the plot here and also because only Bane will carry the plot - as it's his story. In other words the plot doesn't depend or revolve around Revan's appearance in the pages of POD.
All that POD needs for it to work, is Bane's character and the devices the author chooses as solutions to the plot he wants written - Revan was one such device and a cheaply conceived one at that: highlighting the average reading level of the book.
Where does it become a necessity to have a character (Revan) 2000 years removed from the event, become the author of the rule-of-two? Especially when said character never practiced it in his short time as a Sith Lord?
Nihilus had one power huh? How about the instance where he slams Kreia with TK, or the time he stuns The Exile, Mandalore and Visas; or how about the time he seemingly suffocates Visas in his intro? Until Revan shows power on the scale that Nihilus has I'm of the opinion that Nihilus was more powerful than Revan in the force (especially the dark side).
And I really don't care for your impassioned plea 🙄 against my apparent bias. My opinion is what it is, you don't like it fine, but please don't make this out to be some sought of attempt at character assasination on my part - I just don't see what the hype is all about. [/B]
I don't have a plea, I'm destroying your arguments left and right..
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Do you not get it? Because of the authors construction and what not, Revan DID play a role in Bane's crap. This is FICTION, all of it is IMAGINARY, ALL of it is based on the author, wtf are you trying to prove? Give it up.This is like arguing with a stick of dynamite. Revan/Holocron DIRECTLY influenced Bane's LEGACY because without Revan, Bane would have never figured out the rule of two. They filled in the missing plot holes. Get over it.
And as usual, your poor constructed arguments and horrid understanding of logic shows your dislike for Revan.
Nobody cares how necessary it is, it happened therefore it's canon, and it fills in the blanks.
You mean the same power he used on Katarr, but couldn't kill Kreia with? He uses the same gestures in both, so it's obviously the same technique, he just couldn't finish her off. OMG he suffocates Visas, WOW.. Stuns the exile? Gameplay mechanics aren't canon. YOU thinking NIhilus is more powerful than Revan doesn't make it so. Revan's variety of abilities and overall command of the force far exceeds Nihilus. Your dislike for Revan doesn't change that.
I don't have a plea, I'm destroying your arguments left and right..
And how have you understood my point exactly? Revan (specifically) wasn't important to POD as he's totally unrelated to the context of said book. In simple terms, Mother Theresa might as well have sufficed because it was nothing more than a plot point in the book. How, did I ever make it unclear that we were discussing fiction?
Until you actually recognize the gist of my argument this will only go around in circles.
Here's a breakdown.
-Lack of plausibility.
-No relation to the context of the story.
- Unecessary Plot device when you consider that the rule-of-two was long before attached to Bane, completely insubstantial to the Bane character and the overall significance of the plot.(see 1 and 2)
All of these things come together to make Karpyshyn's retcon a hollow substitute.
You don't get it do you? It was drawn up in such a way thay any old Sith could have been thrown in there. It was drawn up with an absolute disregard to the context and lacks significance because of that. Basically the tomb of the ancients was where the plot happened, there was no significance attached to the place the event was taking place in, it's what I call a cheap story device.
And your arguments for Revan are startling, in their total lack of substantial evidence. I have evidence for Nihilus, he commanded the dark side to the point where it allowed him to estinguish entire planets of their life. And he obviously uses TK on Kreia while his drain is shown with an orange light, totally different powers.
You said he never showed a variety of force techniques (as if that has ever been a base for evidence of strength in the force) and I have proof that he did.
Originally posted by Allankles
And how have you understood my point exactly? Revan (specifically) wasn't important to POD as he's totally unrelated to the context of said book. In simple terms, Mother Theresa might as well have sufficed because it was nothing more than a plot point in the book. How, did I ever make it unclear that we were discussing fiction?
Until you actually recognize the gist of my argument this will only go around in circles.
Here's a breakdown.
-Lack of plausibility.
-No relation to the context of the story.
- Unecessary Plot device when you consider that the rule-of-two was long before attached to Bane, completely insubstantial to the Bane character and the overall significance of the plot.(see 1 and 2)
All of these things come together to make Karpyshyn's retcon a hollow substitute.
You don't get it do you? It was drawn up in such a way thay any old Sith could have been thrown in there. It was drawn up with an absolute disregard to the context and lacks significance because of that. Basically the tomb of the ancients was where the plot happened, there was no significance attached to the place the event was taking place in, it's what I call a cheap story device.
And your arguments for Revan are startling, in their total lack of substantial evidence. I have evidence for Nihilus, he commanded the dark side to the point where it allowed him to estinguish entire planets of their life. And he obviously uses TK on Kreia while his drain is shown with an orange light, totally different powers.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What the hell do you mean Revan wasn't important to POD? You can't possibly still be droning about this crap? You are WRONG, how many different ways can I say it?Good god, I don't care if you liked the book or not, I don't care if you think the plot device was unnecessary, stop arguing against facts just because you don't like them.
Facts>Your opinion.
It is evident that YOU don't get it. You can cry and moan that Revan got this feat, but it was credited to him, therefore it is canon, therefore stop wasting my time arguing what you don't like.
You have no evidence for Nihilus, he learned a technique from the ancient sith that was amplified by his being a wound, and was pwned by the exile. Nothing even remotely suggests that he has the overall command force that Revan possesses.
I'm not arguing about the facts (those are insubstantial to this debate) I'm arguing about the events significance in the big picture, clearly you'd gone asleep throughout our entire debate.
Because, if the significance of the event doesn't extend beyond its role as a poorly conceived plot device, why should we give it a care?
And it's hardly what I'd call a 'feat', unless you're saying knowledge equates to achievements.
Nihilus didn't merely learn any old technique, he experienced it. As Kreia said, it is not a technique that can be taught, but rather has to be experienced. In other words it was totally unique to Nihilus in its effects.
And what has Revan ever done to make you believe he possesed a greater command of the force than Nihilus? Until Revan can do something on the scale of killing an entire planet with the force, I'm going to have to put him below Nihilus in the raw power stakes.
Originally posted by Allankles
Because, if the significance of the event doesn't extend beyond its role as a poorly conceived plot device, why should we give it a care?
And it's hardly what I'd call a 'feat', unless you're saying knowledge equates to achievements.
Nihilus didn't merely learn any old technique, he experienced it. As Kreia said, it is not a technique that can be taught, but rather has to be experienced. In other words it was totally unique to Nihilus in its effects.
And what has Revan ever done to make you believe he possesed a greater command of the force than Nihilus? Until Revan can do something on the scale of killing an entire planet with the force, I'm going to have to put him below Nihilus in the raw power stakes. [/B]